[quote]cheeta wrote:
I wouldnt say its like that in all of europe but in the european eastern block countrys and asia they are known to hand pick kids at younge age of around 4 years old and put them in the sport their body appears to be right for, they measure hair growth on arms for test levels and so on and so forth to see if the kid belongs in strengh sport, endurance sport, etc.
Plus fun fact Eastern europeans have differnt muscular tissue (hope i am translating this right) than southern or northen europeans thus making them grow stronger muscles. And most of you americans ancestors came from england, ireland, germany, netherlands and such.
…so maybe a bit far fetched…but thats what I think…
[/quote]
Interesting. This is kind of a throwback to early 20th century concepts about Northwestern Europeans being significantly different that Central or Eastern or Southern Europeans. (Which incedently formed the basisi of US immigration policy until after WW2.)
I thought that the recent genetic mapping of Europe pretty much indicated a striking degre of homogenity across the continent- i.e. that people in the Ukraine are not geneticly distinct from people in France. This would kind of make sense when we consider that goods and people (slaves, settlers, soldiers, and refugees) have been moving all over the place since the late neolithic.
Celts traded across the continent. Romans brought slaves and soldiers from across the empire. Germans moved east in the Middle Ages to farm land on the steppes of Russia (and then back again in the 1940s). Germanic Scandinavians a thousand years ago fled the poverty of their land created mixed cultures in places like Finland, Britain, France, and Russia. Catholics fled England. Huegonots fled France. Christians fled into the West from the Turks. Jews and Roma went everywhere.
Europe is a mixing bowl of people. The nationalities are cultural distinctions- not genetic ones.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Oh c’mon, trying to carry political correctness over to everything results in nonsense.
Name me ONE Kenyan or other East African sprinter who is competitive at high levels of the sport?
Now try that for the marathon.
Try the reverse for blacks of West African descent.
And for extra points, tell me what happens in the mile.
Yeah, I know it pains some to believe that there are differences in how people’s bodies are built other than amount of melanin, but getting in a huff and reflexively denying, for example, that Eastern Europeans might very strongly tend in a direction that other other Europeans do not just out of this idealistic thinking, and that’s all it is, is not productive.[/quote]
That makes total sense, I guess when people were migrating all over the place back in the day, all the people who could run long distances ran to Kenya and all the people who could sprint fast jumped over to Jamaica. Ever though maybe people aspire to compete in a sport their country is prideful of?
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
Really? Like who? Have you gone through the testing procedures run in this country? Do you know any of our top athletes? Have you personally seen them taking drugs? Have you talked to them about them?
This country is actually very clean when it comes to weightlifting. I’ve seen people get popped for THC or cough medicine - that’s how hard we test! Quite honestly, you should be embarrassed to suggest otherwise unless you have first hand information about it.
It turns out that the US has been saying this for years… not just since this Olympics. The countries that tend to win tend to also have violations for anabolics. The countries that do not do much tend not to.
Its pretty clear how, in weightlifting, drugs would be insanely useful. Forget about building muscle - the recovery portion is what everyone wants. If you could train multiple times a day at high intensity and still recover the same as only a few times a week at high intensity, you will strictly be a better lifter at elite levels.[/quote]
Yes, I have first hand knowledge that our lifters are on drugs, and no, I’m not going to give you names because that’s plain stupid.
My first experience with this was when I had coached my first lifter to Nationals. While there, he was talking to some of the lifters in his flight and the talk was very open about how much drugs they were taking and how to beat the tests.
I can safely say that the majority of the lifters are taking somewhere between 600-1000 mg of Test. I’ve also heard more and more of HGH and IGF-1 usage, between 2-5 IUs a day. Leading up to meets, the lifters will get off Test and start taking Suspension but stay on the Peptide stuff.
That said, I would also say that there are a fair amount of clean lifters, at a pretty high level too. It’s not at the level of Track and Field at all where all the athletes are on something, but US lifters are taking their drugs just like the rest of them.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
Yes, I have first hand knowledge that our lifters are on drugs, and no, I’m not going to give you names because that’s plain stupid.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you the one who was saying that the USAW is a disgrace to weightlifting in this country? Knowing lifters are cheating and failing to report that cheating isn’t exactly helping the sport in our country either.
Like others have mentioned in this thread - in the US - olympic weightlifting (and most serious weightlifting for that matter) isn’t traditionally emphasized until high school. Even then, it’s only ancillary for other sports such as football and wrestling.
I’m unsure if it’s the same trend everywhere else, but when I was in elementary school we were told we shouldn’t start lifting that young “because it’s bad for your bones”.
[quote]LiftSmart wrote:
cheeta wrote:
LiftSmart wrote:
cheeta wrote:
Plus fun fact Eastern europeans have differnt muscular tissue (hope i am translating this right) than southern or northen europeans thus making them grow stronger muscles. And most of you americans ancestors came from england, ireland, germany, netherlands and such.
…so maybe a bit far fetched…but thats what I think…
Got any citation for this?
If I knew what the word citation ment then I would be able to answer this question, But i assume you mean proof?
Well muscle tissue vise:
I would have to look it up in my books, but I am currently taking my BS in sport science where we learned a whole deal about it how their muscle tissue goes in a nother direction than for other white ppl. Its not that they have more of it its just that it is different.
(sorry hard to explain when english is your 3rd language)
Most americans from england, iceland, germanu, netherlands and such? well many come from mexico now and some from africa, asia etc and all that…but i dont think thats what you ment…
Sorry, yeah I meant the source. I’ve never heard about that before.
[/quote]
Sounds like the Nazis are back in force over in Cheetas country. She is speaking BS here.
White people are smarter, look at all CEO_s and Poloticians! Do you see my point?
Yeah. Well.
Haha nice catch, how ironic.[/quote]
I get extra points for this due to being a white German and still pointing out those mistakes.
Not max points though because I’m not blond and blue-eyed
[quote]BAdWolf wrote:
I know there are some strong as hell powerlifters, but why the dominance in the Olympic weightlifting is in europe/asia? even tought if any lifter can handle more than 200kg in america is good.
I want you guys opinion thanks.[/quote]
We suck because there are a lot more olympic lifters in those countries as a percentage of the population. Rippetoe talked about this in one of his books.
[quote]Dr. Manhattan wrote:
johnnytang24 wrote:
Dr. Manhattan wrote:
Really? Like who? Have you gone through the testing procedures run in China? Do you know any of China’s top athletes? Have you personally seen them taking drugs? Have you talked to them about them?
China is actually very clean when it comes to weightlifting. Quite honestly, you should be embarrassed to suggest otherwise unless you have first hand information about it.
It turns out that the China has been saying this for years… not just since this Olympics.
China is clean because no one here has first hand knowledge of their drug usage, and they have never been busted in International competition. They even test out of competition!
If you believe that, I have a this great training program to sell…
The problems with your reductio ad absurdum are that you ignored some of my argument in applying it to China’s situation, and you ignored the obvious weakening piece of evidence that, while the US has not been doing well at lifting, China has been doing exceedingly well.
[/quote]
So you’re stating that his argument is wrong because China have been doing well, while you make the exact same argument and are correct because the US have been doing poorly?
White people are smarter, look at all CEO_s and Poloticians! Do you see my point?
Yeah. Well.
Haha nice catch, how ironic.
I get extra points for this due to being a white German and still pointing out those mistakes.
Not max points though because I’m not blond and blue-eyed ;)[/quote]
Haha I’m blonde hair blue eyes, you get max points for bringing it up
Im stating that his argument is severely weakened by the fact that China is doing well, where as my argument is strengthened by the fact that the US is doing poorly.
White people are smarter, look at all CEO_s and Poloticians! Do you see my point?
Yeah. Well.
Haha nice catch, how ironic.
I get extra points for this due to being a white German and still pointing out those mistakes.
Not max points though because I’m not blond and blue-eyed
Haha I’m blonde hair blue eyes, you get max points for bringing it up :-D[/quote]
[quote]Dominator wrote:
My first experience with this was when I had coached my first lifter to Nationals. While there, he was talking to some of the lifters in his flight and the talk was very open about how much drugs they were taking and how to beat the tests.
I can safely say that the majority of the lifters are taking somewhere between 600-1000 mg of Test. I’ve also heard more and more of HGH and IGF-1 usage, between 2-5 IUs a day. Leading up to meets, the lifters will get off Test and start taking Suspension but stay on the Peptide stuff.
That said, I would also say that there are a fair amount of clean lifters, at a pretty high level too. It’s not at the level of Track and Field at all where all the athletes are on something, but US lifters are taking their drugs just like the rest of them.
[/quote]
I doubt you can safely say that. I wonder how many lifters you talk to, and what part of the country they are in. On the east coast, that is just not the norm whatsoever - and I know most of the better lifters on this side of the country. In fact, the general feeling among athletes over here is fear of getting caught for ANYTHING whatsoever because no one wants to be suspended for a year.
So you’re stating that his argument is wrong because China have been doing well, while you make the exact same argument and are correct because the US have been doing poorly?
Im stating that his argument is severely weakened by the fact that China is doing well, where as my argument is strengthened by the fact that the US is doing poorly.
[/quote]
Right… so their success is directly attributable to their drug use? Since this is the only difference between the countries training programmes and selection criteria?
But… it’s not the only difference is it? In fact the other differences are pretty substantial, no?
I doubt you can safely say that. I wonder how many lifters you talk to, and what part of the country they are in. On the east coast, that is just not the norm whatsoever - and I know most of the better lifters on this side of the country. In fact, the general feeling among athletes over here is fear of getting caught for ANYTHING whatsoever because no one wants to be suspended for a year.[/quote]
