Cyco, what you’re ignoring is that people would be better off eating butter, lard and porkchops then what they’re currently eating. That’s the whole bloody point.
-Zulu
“You recommendd high carb/lower fat (not as low as most seem to think) and people eat the 16tons of sugary , crud infested crap that they are at the moment.”
not as low as you think? you mean 30% MAX? do you know how many real foods that eliminates?
following the USDA guidelines eliminates a great deal of real foods. you shouldn’t be eating LIVER and other organ meats, EGGS, BEEF, SHRIMP, whole milk, butter, cheese, etc. but you can eat lots of pasta, breads, and cereals!!
all of which have very little nutritional value and much have a high GI. yay health!
[quote]i think this thread is over and ot’s obvious you’ve been proven wrong. [/quote]neil, you have shown nothing in every single post, tell me the health effects of a high carbohydrate diet?
[quote]I find it rather amusing that cycomiko is doing all this name calling[/quote]Just like your pictures commenting on people being gay etc huh.
Fucktard.
[quoteright off the USDA website, they recommend GRAINS at the base, 6-11 servings per day. [/quote] wow, 6-11 thats quite a wide range, now tell the recommendations for meat/protein/dairy intake huh?
ANd then explain to the people about the nutrition guidelines.
[quote]are you saying that the USDA doesn’t recommend grains as the base of a diet? [/quote]ANd where did I say that they didnt. I was saying WHOLE grains.
[quote] Cyco, what you’re ignoring is that people would be better off eating butter, lard and porkchops then what they’re currently eating. That’s the whole bloody point. [/quote]people would not be better off eating butter lard and porkchops, what they would be better off doing is reducing refined carbohydrate intake, changing fat intake (proportions of mufa/pufa/safa) and eating fruits and veges, whole grains instead of the usual garbage
[quote]not as low as you think? you mean 30% MAX? do you know how many real foods that eliminates? [/quote]do you actually understand population based nutrition guidelines?
[quote]following the USDA guidelines eliminates a great deal of real foods. you shouldn’t be eating LIVER and other organ meats, EGGS, BEEF, SHRIMP, whole milk, butter, cheese, etc. but you can eat lots of pasta, breads, and cereals!! [/quote]where does it say that you shouldnt eat all those foods, but should eat lots of others? and if you actually look at the post above (a fair way) that I did, you would see a quick calculation of carb intake based on the 6-11 serving recommendation. Its not exactly a high carb intake (not by american standards.
[quote]all of which have very little nutritional value and much have a high GI. yay health! [/quote]So whole grains have no nutritional value at all?
Wow. Long thread. I liked it though. I haven’t seen fucktard in a while and I really liked that name.
I know a few people that have done the Adkins diet, some of them do it long term. Of the long term Adkins folks every one of them is healthier by every measure according to their doctors than they were two years or so before. The people I know that use it have read the book(s) and try to make fairly good choices of foods. No cheez whiz and hot dogs in this group.
I’ve always moderated my carbs. I’ve always thought that bread, pasta, etc. was good filler food if you couldn’t afford “real food” like chicken or fish but it’s not something I’d like to try and live on.
I did try a low fat, moderate protein, higher carb diet for a while. I did keep track of what I ate, the same as I do on any diet. My body comp went to shit on that diet and I fairly quickly learned that what other people thought was good for me was not in fact very good for me.
So I’ve seen it work for others and myself and the only doctor I know that doesn’t like it is a carb addicted diabetic so that’s good enough for me.
[quote]Of the long term Adkins folks every one of them is healthier by every measure according to their doctors than they were two years or so before[/quote]of course, any diet that causes weight loss will cause a risk reduction.
So what’s your point? They are thinner, have better BP, lower cholesterol (if that matters and I’m not sold that it does)and they are living just fine.
Adkins is a diet that works for a lot of people because for them it’s easier to stick to. I’m sure other diets work but I’m not of the opinion that every diet that causes weight loss is necessarily good for you long term. The Hollywood Juice diet causes weight loss but I don’t think you could live on it and stay healthy.
Most of my grandfather’s generation didn’t eat what the FDA would agree is a good diet but many of them lived to be relatively healthy for well into their 80th year plus. Of course it wasn’t all diet, they actually got off of their ass and had to work for a living too.
no point really, its just that there is nothing majical about atkins or any other low carb diet perse, its they lost weight so risk factors decrease.
In [i]SOME[/i} people atkins seems to find easier to stick to, but there is nothing other than anecdotal evidence, adn it doesnt seem any more compelling than any other diets anecdotal evidence.
The national weight loss register relates the most successful dieters have a diet that takes in ~50% carbs 
Mike, did you ever think this thread would be so long?
Ok, let’s get this thread started!
Let’s look at the most basic aspects of nutrition. First you eat some food. chomp chomp gulp In response to this food, your blood sugar will rise. In response to this, your body releases insulin to bring your blood sugar levels back to normal.
During the time that you insulin levels are raised it is impossible to burn fat, and you are more likely to store food as fat.
A major key in fat loss is to try to keep your blood sugar levels as level as possible, which will help to keep your insulin levels as level as possible. This can be most easily acheived through a low carb diet.
Neil, lay off the butter. It’s making your T levels too high. And remember, bees are nature’s candy.
The fact that you keep callin Morg, Neil shows how fuckin stupid you are. You are a graduate student in nutrition? FUCKING WHOOOOO RAHHH. Fuck off assjack
[quote]During the time that you insulin levels are raised it is impossible to burn fat, and you are more likely to store food as fat. [/quote]Insulin levels during fasting are hgih enough to limit oxidation. Even eating protein will raise insulin enough to have an effect on fat metabolsim. Insulin only limits lipolysis, it doesnt totally effect the oxidation of fats within the cells. Lipolysis is greater than the FA export from adipocytes anyway, so insulin doesnt have a on-off effect in any way. If it did, anyone who ever ate any carbs (low GI included, as they raise insulin enough to reduce lipolysis) would never lose any fat.
Check out any decently controlled low carb diet (not free living, or self reported food intake, iso nitrogenous, iso caloric etc) and it makes no real difference.
In ad lib diets it does make a difference, becuase stability of insulin (and ketones to an extent) will create a anoretic effect
Come on Jeff, you know you can do better…
Cyco, I was just going over basic nutrition with you here. If you are saying that is incorrect, then I am to understand that there is no science of nutrition?
Yes, if you take a shot of flax seed oil, then you will have a negligable insulin response. But the response is different than if you ate a rice cake.
So you believe that fat will be easily stored suring an elevated level of insulin?
“Mike, did you ever think this thread would be so long?”
Damn, Jeff, just logged on and can’t believe how this thing mutated!
Kinda funny,(hey, I started this thread - I can hijack it for a second!) how you can start a thread that you think the whole world will respond to and you get like three, four replies and then it dies a quiet death.
Then, you throw some stuff out that you feel like talking about, and are sure hardly anyone else gives a shit and you get this!
Cool!
[quote]So you believe that fat will be easily stored suring an elevated level of insulin? [/quote]fat can be stored without a rise in insulin (if it didnt, humans wouldnt have made it this far.
Its all a matter of fat balance (or more specifically, adipocyte fat balance, if you have more fat going in than out, then you have problems)
in simple terms
Fat balance = fat oxidation vs fat intake.
Carbs will affect the first part of the equation, fat intake will affect the other.
If you have low carbs and high fat, you can still reach fat balanance (oxidation is increased, but intake is risen)
and then it all works back to basically caloric balance.
THere is periods a low carb diet can be useful, but general public recommendations probably isnt one of them.
I firmly believe that if the average person made sure they were active and ate most types of food in moderation, they would be a lot better off. I cannot believe that cutting out fruits and veggies etc is at all healthy. The average consumer seems to want to eat coco cups, pizzas, donuts and fast food ALL the time but remain healthy. Ain’t gonna happen. When I use the word “diet”, (and I have to explain this to family anf friends), I think healthy eating and living, not eating to lose weight.
Oh yes, I expect to get flamed for my overly simplistic views of “dieting” that I discussed in my previous post.
LOL
bigripfreaky
your simplistic idea is perfectly fine. Simple can be good.
Can someone summarize this thread in 100 words or less.
Thanks
“your simplistic idea is perfectly fine. Simple can be good.”
Hmmmm, I guess sometimes simplicity can be good. I guess you either want it very simple or very complex, if you go somewhere inbetween you get errors and incorrect assumptions as with Jeffs last couple of posts.
For an example on why simple or “basic” (as Jeff puts it) explanations often fall short check out the mpemba effect.
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=mpemba&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=
“Show me research that shows keto having an advantage over moderate/high carb diets at identical caloric levels (and protein)”
research? ask anyone who has ever dieted to get into the low bodyfat numbers.
i think by now it should be pretty obvious to all of us that “scientific” research doesnt always reflect real world data.