Who Wants Obama to Fail?

[orion]

[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
lixy wrote:

That makes you a drone. A sell-out. A hypocrite. Etc.

With your line of reasoning, you could have been one of those sticking Jews in ovens and calling it patriotism.

You are correct, I am a sell-out to the constitution of the USA. I truly believe in it even though it is attacked on the edges occasionally. I actually have the oath on my desk where I swore to uphold it.
[/quote]

Attacked on the edges?

Occasionally?

How would you describe if someone bend you over a barrel and raped you anally sans lube?

A slightly unpleasant afternoon?

[lixy]

[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
lixy wrote:

That makes you a drone. A sell-out. A hypocrite. Etc.

With your line of reasoning, you could have been one of those sticking Jews in ovens and calling it patriotism.

You are correct, I am a sell-out to the constitution of the USA. I truly believe in it even though it is attacked on the edges occasionally. I actually have the oath on my desk where I swore to uphold it. [/quote]

Grow up, mate! The constitution of the USA is a friggin’ text written on a piece of paper. It can be interpreted in many different ways, amended or - as has been happening all so often lately - used as toilet paper. You’re a drone at the service of whoever managed to get the most money to get elected. And if SCOTUS decides that sticking Gooks^H^H^H^H^H people that feel different in concentration^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H War Relocation Camps is constitutional, you would enforce it.

In my very humble opinion, your attitude illustrates what it is to be un-american. The Original USA is about The People fighting for what they believe is right. That got corrupted thanks to donuts, blow-up dolls, Prozac and cable TV. To give you an analogy, you’re like the juror who, instead of reflecting on the fairness of the law, sticks to the judge’s recommendations.

You know a society is in deep shit when it starts stigmatizing and labelling people as un-[insert citizenship].

[pat]

[quote]orion wrote:
BigJawnMize wrote:
I hate reading this thread. This is a damn un-american load of shit.

Gearge W Bush was our president and though I didn’t entirely agree with his agenda, I worked on it in hopes that it would suceed. Even against odds I hope to find a stable democracy in Iraq in the future and that his beliefs that this will have a stabilizing effect on the region are right.

Obama is our president now and although I don’t agree with all his agenda I will work hard on it in hopes that it will succeed in leading this country to a time of prosperity.

Too hope for you president to fail is un-american.

Really?

Then look up some newspapers from around 1800 or so.

Hoping that your president fucks up is a proud and longstanding American tradition.

[/quote]

That is actually true…

[dhickey]

To be honest, I haven’t given this any thought. Maybe becuase there is nothing stopping him from doing what he wants.

My energy is now focused on how I can adapt and prosper. I certainly have to understand the consequences of the Dems actions, but I won’t worry about him failing for another 4 years.

[pat]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
To be honest, I haven’t given this any thought. Maybe becuase there is nothing stopping him from doing what he wants.

My energy is now focused on how I can adapt and prosper. I certainly have to understand the consequences of the Dems actions, but I won’t worry about him failing for another 4 years.[/quote]

I will worry about him 2 years from now… An unfriendly congress can sure make his life a living hell.

[dhickey]

[quote]pat wrote:
dhickey wrote:
To be honest, I haven’t given this any thought. Maybe becuase there is nothing stopping him from doing what he wants.

My energy is now focused on how I can adapt and prosper. I certainly have to understand the consequences of the Dems actions, but I won’t worry about him failing for another 4 years.

I will worry about him 2 years from now… An unfriendly congress can sure make his life a living hell.[/quote]

touche

[Tiribulus]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
BigJawnMize wrote:
…it is the constitution and its checks and balances that I hope will be preserved…

Your hope should be dashed. The constitutional checks and balances presently stand unpreserved in many cases. Examples:

2nd Amendment - …the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A completely laughable notion to think no infringement has taken place when in fact in 1934, 1968, 1986, 1989, and 1993 it has been blatantly infringed not to mention many, many other infringements that happen at the whim of the executive branch namely via a completely corrupt BATFE.

4th Amendment - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.

Property seizure laws originally purported to be used against drug kingpins are frequently and blatantly used indiscriminately in many other situations in clear violation of the 4th.

9th Amendment - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10th Amendment - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

A complete fuckin joke to think that these two amendments have not been trampled into the mud and for all practical purposes are a complete waste of ink in today’s United States of America.

Bottom line? Quit continuing to rely on hope to preserve checks and balances. Hope doesn’t get the job done.[/quote]

5th amendment . <<< nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

How bout where judges decide that the private enterprises of well connected political contributors who’ve supported either them of their bureaucratic overseers are sufficient to deprive someone of their home and neighborhood.

EX: We’re building a shopping center here, you’ll have to move.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]lixy wrote:
<<< The constitution of the USA is a friggin’ text written on a piece of paper. It can be interpreted in many different ways >>>[/quote]

The constitution of the USA is the blueprint and foundational polity of the most prosperous, progressive (in the real sense) and powerful nation that this planet has ever seen. Bar none X10.

The ways it can be interpreted narrow exponentially once you read the thought of those who were there. Yes, they debated, yes there was disagreement right from day one, but you can bet your life that we have strayed light years from the trajectory they envisioned.

Make no mistake, this current crop of power hungry tyrants knows EXACTLY what this country was about and how it excludes people like them from the control they crave.

[Mike219]

[quote]NealRaymond2 wrote:
The question itself is problematic. Fail at what?

Fail at improving the economy? Or fail at increasing the government’s role in the economy, which some people believe will improve the economy?

Fail at making Americans safer? Or fail at adding gun and ammunition restrictions aimed at law-abiding citizens, which some people believe will make Americans safer?

Fail at making the world a better place? Or fail at using taxpayer-supported education and service programs to recruit a generation of youth committed to particular means of attempting to make the world a better place?

In each pair above, I would like Obama to fail at the second item.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[FutureGL]

1. This thread moves way too quickly, you snooze for half a day and end up with three pages to read.

2. This might be moot, but nobody seems to care to address it: Hoping that the current president will fail in a time like this implies that you have the economic endurance (money) to survive a MAJOR dive for the next 4-8 years. Those of us with smaller slow twitch monetary fibers can’t afford that.

Metaphorically speaking, as a college student I can’t exactly run a great 5k when my pre-meet nutrition just went from Surge to a handful of deli meat and Wonderbread. I’d like the next couple years to go well, actually.

Would this failure be worth it just to make a point?

[Jeff_R]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
FutureGL wrote:

1. This thread moves way too quickly, you snooze for half a day and end up with three pages to read.

2. This might be moot, but nobody seems to care to address it: Hoping that the current president will fail in a time like this implies that you have the economic endurance (money) to survive a MAJOR dive for the next 4-8 years. Those of us with smaller slow twitch monetary fibers can’t afford that.

Metaphorically speaking, as a college student I can’t exactly run a great 5k when my pre-meet nutrition just went from Surge to a handful of deli meat and Wonderbread. I’d like the next couple years to go well, actually.

Would this failure be worth it just to make a point?

The failure is not going to happen “to make a point”. It’s going to fail because the model is flawed. Obama’s running an experiment that has been tried many times before and each and every time it has failed.

Sooner or later even the most seemingly visionary theory must be discarded when it can never pass muster. Why is that so hard to grasp?[/quote]

Push,

I’d like to field that question. It’s so hard to grasp because most people HAVE NO IDEA that these ideas have failed before.

They hear FDR and they see his statues. They hear “New Deal” in their liberal classrooms and they think “savior.”

They have no idea that his own sec of Treasury called it a failure in 1939.

It’s so hard to grasp because people are lazy or intentionally ignorant.

Try an experiment on random obama voters. Ask them direct questions.

I’ll bet you lixy’s propaganda money that the answers will depress you.

[Jeff_R]

[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
Jeff R wrote:

I appreciate your viewpoint. But, if his name was President lenin, would you feel the same?

Many of us feel that the Administration with their, “Never let a crisis go to waste” is trying to convert our great land to socialism.

No matter his position, I cannot support that movement nor taking advantage of the crisis in this manner.

JeffR

JeffR

I don’t disagree. But Obama is learning from the master that preceded him. Bush used the attacks on 911 to advance his agenda in Iraq which was really just periphery to the war on terror. Bush was very good at this, he coined it shock and awe.

On the Lenin comment, again it is the constitution and its checks and balances that I hope will be preserved. If you want you could make the example more current–how about Putin. It is easy to say that you would revolt against Putin, but what if you have never known a different life. Life under Putin might be better than life under Gorby. So what foundation do you have for revolt.[/quote]

Periphery to the War on Terror?

Really?

Victorious commanders choose the battleground. Every war. Every conflict.

Bush belived (rightly so) that saddam was cuddly with a whole host of terrorists.

He saw where guys like al zarqawi that CHOSE TO FLEE TO IRAQ were wounded by AMERICANS IN AFGHANISTAN.

He noticed that his pal the King of Jordan, asked for extradition of zarqawi, and was refused directly by saddam.

He saw a guy who was a known violator of WMD treaties.

He then took a peek at what sits between Afghanistan and Iraq (care to call that acountry on the periphery?)

He looked around at dictators in, say, LIBYA (arming with WMD), who were waiting to see whether we’d go the extra mile to get at the roots of the danger.

No, friend, Bush was right on about Iraq.

The ONLY WAY TO WIN THE WAR ON TERROR is to foster Democracy and have these countries EXPEL THEIR OWN TERRORISTS.

There is no other way to win.

Oh, I wonder if you’ve noted that obama thinks the Constitution has “deep flaws.”

That coupled with his guy, emmanuel, talking about not letting a crisis go to waste, should make you pretty nervous.

JeffR

[Headhunter]

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men’s protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers sieze gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper…Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: ‘Account Overdrawn’.
— Atlas Shrugged

[anonym]

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
Oh, I wonder if you’ve noted that obama thinks the Constitution has “deep flaws.”[/quote]

Do you know what “flaw”, specifically, he was referring to when he made that comment?

You are talking about “Slavery and the Constitution”, right?

[FutureGL]

[quote]pushharder wrote:
FutureGL wrote:

1. This thread moves way too quickly, you snooze for half a day and end up with three pages to read.

2. This might be moot, but nobody seems to care to address it: Hoping that the current president will fail in a time like this implies that you have the economic endurance (money) to survive a MAJOR dive for the next 4-8 years. Those of us with smaller slow twitch monetary fibers can’t afford that.

Metaphorically speaking, as a college student I can’t exactly run a great 5k when my pre-meet nutrition just went from Surge to a handful of deli meat and Wonderbread. I’d like the next couple years to go well, actually.

Would this failure be worth it just to make a point?

The failure is not going to happen “to make a point”. It’s going to fail because the model is flawed. Obama’s running an experiment that has been tried many times before and each and every time it has failed.

Sooner or later even the most seemingly visionary theory must be discarded when it can never pass muster. Why is that so hard to grasp?[/quote]

You answered a completely different question. Mine is why would someone WANT him to fail given the economic suffering it would put so many Americans through. Someone please answer this question.

[FutureGL]

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
pushharder wrote:
FutureGL wrote:

1. This thread moves way too quickly, you snooze for half a day and end up with three pages to read.

2. This might be moot, but nobody seems to care to address it: Hoping that the current president will fail in a time like this implies that you have the economic endurance (money) to survive a MAJOR dive for the next 4-8 years. Those of us with smaller slow twitch monetary fibers can’t afford that.

Metaphorically speaking, as a college student I can’t exactly run a great 5k when my pre-meet nutrition just went from Surge to a handful of deli meat and Wonderbread. I’d like the next couple years to go well, actually.

Would this failure be worth it just to make a point?

The failure is not going to happen “to make a point”. It’s going to fail because the model is flawed. Obama’s running an experiment that has been tried many times before and each and every time it has failed.

Sooner or later even the most seemingly visionary theory must be discarded when it can never pass muster. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Push,

I’d like to field that question. It’s so hard to grasp because most people HAVE NO IDEA that these ideas have failed before.

They hear FDR and they see his statues. They hear “New Deal” in their liberal classrooms and they think “savior.”

They have no idea that his own sec of Treasury called it a failure in 1939.

It’s so hard to grasp because people are lazy or intentionally ignorant.

Try an experiment on random obama voters. Ask them direct questions.

I’ll bet you lixy’s propaganda money that the answers will depress you.
[/quote]

Ok you know what Jeff, you need to answer my question too. Don’t label me a Obama supporter based on my previous post.

I’m questioning this entire thread because it’s entitled “Who Wants Obama to Fail.” You can’t read that and intelligibly rule out his current effort to rescue the economy. Thus hoping Obama fails = hoping the economy continues in its downward spiral. This would hurt a lot of people, myself included.

Tell me hoping an economic stimulus plan fails isn’t un-American. Go ahead.