Who Uses a False Grip?

Training Powerlifting
41

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:

[quote]canada wrote:

Which position do you feel directly improves the conventional deadlift more? Increasing my dead is priority number 1.

[/quote]

Again, depends on where your muscular weakness/sticking point is.

In general, narrow stance ATG high-bar squats, as well as front squats, improve strength off of the floor. Wide stance powerlifting style low-bar squats, especially when done with a box, improve strength in the lockout.

If I had to choose between the two, I’d always pick the high-bar squat. I don’t see any reason to not use both on a weekly basis though. Plenty of people squat 2 or 3 times a week without issue. I’ve heard people say that you can box squat more often than free squat, but most lifters who box squat don’t do so more than once or twice a week. There are olympic lifters all over the world that squat high-bar and/or front squat daily. [/quote]

Hmm… would about strength off the floor for sumo pulls? [/quote]

Well, most of the good sumo pullers I’ve ever learned from/talked to have done the majority of their training conventional. I think training conventional the majority of the time and analyzing and working on your weaknesses there carries over very well to sumo, but it doesn’t seem like sumo has the same carry over to conventional. In that sense, I think sumo and conventional deadlifts are very similar to low-bar and high-bar squats, in that one of them has better carry over to the other.

Squatting to a lower box is one thing that helps sumo. I’m assuming that the conversation topic is still squatting and that you’re talking about the best squat variations to improve the sumo pull. Some people prefer a ton of special exercises and assistance exercises to work their weaknesses, so they’d do wide stance good mornings, SSB low box squats, suspended SSB good mornings, deficit pulls, deficit sumo pulls, etc. but I prefer to put more time into the competition lifts themselves so that’s why what kind of squat I use is significantly more important to me. The squat is what I do the most, and I think that overall high-bar shoulder width deep squats are the what have the most carry over to other lifts.

I pull sumo as well, and I’ve still noticed a ton of improvement on my strength off of the floor from pulling conventional often, deep high-bar squatting and front squatting. Personally, I think your build also plays a big part in deadlifting, especially sumo. It’s more technical than conventional is and those with short limbs and a long torso get far more out of the style than those with long limbs and short torsos do.

42

[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]UrbanSavage wrote:

[quote]canada wrote:

Which position do you feel directly improves the conventional deadlift more? Increasing my dead is priority number 1.

[/quote]

Again, depends on where your muscular weakness/sticking point is.

In general, narrow stance ATG high-bar squats, as well as front squats, improve strength off of the floor. Wide stance powerlifting style low-bar squats, especially when done with a box, improve strength in the lockout.

If I had to choose between the two, I’d always pick the high-bar squat. I don’t see any reason to not use both on a weekly basis though. Plenty of people squat 2 or 3 times a week without issue. I’ve heard people say that you can box squat more often than free squat, but most lifters who box squat don’t do so more than once or twice a week. There are olympic lifters all over the world that squat high-bar and/or front squat daily. [/quote]

Hmm… would about strength off the floor for sumo pulls? [/quote]

Well, most of the good sumo pullers I’ve ever learned from/talked to have done the majority of their training conventional. I think training conventional the majority of the time and analyzing and working on your weaknesses there carries over very well to sumo, but it doesn’t seem like sumo has the same carry over to conventional. In that sense, I think sumo and conventional deadlifts are very similar to low-bar and high-bar squats, in that one of them has better carry over to the other.

Squatting to a lower box is one thing that helps sumo. I’m assuming that the conversation topic is still squatting and that you’re talking about the best squat variations to improve the sumo pull. Some people prefer a ton of special exercises and assistance exercises to work their weaknesses, so they’d do wide stance good mornings, SSB low box squats, suspended SSB good mornings, deficit pulls, deficit sumo pulls, etc. but I prefer to put more time into the competition lifts themselves so that’s why what kind of squat I use is significantly more important to me. The squat is what I do the most, and I think that overall high-bar shoulder width deep squats are the what have the most carry over to other lifts.

I pull sumo as well, and I’ve still noticed a ton of improvement on my strength off of the floor from pulling conventional often, deep high-bar squatting and front squatting. Personally, I think your build also plays a big part in deadlifting, especially sumo. It’s more technical than conventional is and those with short limbs and a long torso get far more out of the style than those with long limbs and short torsos do. [/quote]

Not to hijack this thread. :slight_smile:

I believe i have short arms and a short torso.

Are there any standard tests to compare arm, torso and leg lengths? To determine leverages.

43

I prefer sumo and I have long arms and legs and a short torso.

44

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I prefer sumo and I have long arms and legs and a short torso.[/quote]

There are exceptions to every rule, but chances are that you should be pulling conventional. Unless you’re just looking to get the most out of gear, there’s no reason for you to work against your own advantageous leverages in the deadlift by pulling sumo. You’re built to deadlift conventional, and it’s rare for someone with long limbs and a short torso to be able to build their raw sumo deadlift higher than their raw conventional deadlift.

I think there are really only two reasons to pull sumo, and those are to get the most out of your gear or because you’re not a born deadlifter. I believe that’s why most deadlifts over 900 have been done conventional. Deadlifters are born not made, and sumo is the best style for those of us who were not born to be great at deadlifting. That’s why there will be some very impressive sumo deadlifts and people will still break world record totals pulling sumo, but the best deadlifters who are breaking world records in it will almost always pull conventional.

I’m going to anticipate someone mentioning Ed Coan’s modified sumo 901 lb pull, he’s an exception. If you think you’re the next Ed Coan, do whatever the fuck you want and don’t listen to me.

45

I have noticed that the more weight I pull, the more I narrow my stance. Like when I pulled 385 my feet almost touched the plates and that where I was strongest. When I pulled 455, my heels were shoulder width apart.

46

[quote]canada wrote:
Not to hijack this thread. :slight_smile:

I believe i have short arms and a short torso.

Are there any standard tests to compare arm, torso and leg lengths? To determine leverages.[/quote]

Check your PMs. My post responding to this was deleted for linking a site with a formula to calculate what style of deadlifting better suits a person based on the length of their torso and limbs.

47

I switched over to a false grip about 2 years ago. I tweaked my wrist really hard and had to go that route for the time being to keep pressing without major pain. I got really comfy with it and now I can’t go back to normal. The wrist also still gives me problems and when I wrap my thumb now it almost always bothers me.

That said, you have to pay attention with this grip. In 2 years I’ve lost 2 lifts while benching and thankfully was not hurt either time. Dave Tate has some good info on this but essentially you want to set up with a normal grip and then move your thumb to the false position.