I think the best interview that Chris has done for the movie was on the Fitcast podcast: http://thefitcast.com/?p=638
If anybody wants to know waaaay too much about the coverage of the movie, we’ve been following it here: http://supertraininggym.com/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=165&start=301&posts=320
Are people saying 200-230lb while still staying lean and natural is a big deal???
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
I thought the documentary was excellent, and thoroughly enjoyable.
steel_12 wrote:
I got the impression from the movie that the physique of stallone, for example who is 180-200, is unattainable naturally.
I have news for you, it’s impossible for a 62 year old man to have a physique like Stallone without drugs.[/quote]
Yes it is pretty much impossible.
also,Danny Bonaduce,now pushing 50 years old.
Destroyed his body with the rock star type life of drug abuse.
Now Proudly uses drugs to counter the damage he was stupid enough to cause.
And he is in great shape now,I see very few 50 year old men that are in that shape much less with his background
For him I think it is his second chance.
Even if he is a jack ass
And I saw the movie as one of the few that showed more of the truth behind things.
and it showed the blindness some people have with the subject
Pretty well done.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Are people saying 200-230lb while still staying lean and natural is a big deal???[/quote]
It depends on your height IMO. And by lean I’m not talking about 15-18% BF, which IS fairly lean, but rather the 5’11-6’0 guy that is 230lb at like 8%. That is very unusual to see without steroids.
I thought Bell did a good job of presenting both sides of the issue, though he probably leaned a bit pro-steroids.
One part which I felt was not fully explored was the mental addiction to steroids. When most people decide to go on - there is a goal in mind (be better at a sport, lift a lot, be a bodybuilder, etc.)
How many guys stay on after their original goal is no longer attainable? Bell’s older brother falls into this “mentally addicted” category. He is lucky that he hasn’t screwed up his cardiovascular system, but smart money says that even when he admits his career is done, he’s going to stay on.
Guys like him are putting their health at risk for no discernable reason, which sounds like an addiction to me.
[quote]bulldog24 wrote:
I thought Bell did a good job of presenting both sides of the issue, though he probably leaned a bit pro-steroids.
One part which I felt was not fully explored was the mental addiction to steroids. When most people decide to go on - there is a goal in mind (be better at a sport, lift a lot, be a bodybuilder, etc.)
How many guys stay on after their original goal is no longer attainable? Bell’s older brother falls into this “mentally addicted” category. He is lucky that he hasn’t screwed up his cardiovascular system, but smart money says that even when he admits his career is done, he’s going to stay on.
Guys like him are putting their health at risk for no discernable reason, which sounds like an addiction to me. [/quote]
The evidence is pointing toward there being no real health risks other than the obvious testicular ones. And it is mood enhancing, so it could be addictive, but where do you draw the line between mood enhancing and life enhancing?
I don’t think if it’s fair to say that there are no real health risks. Numerous studies show liver toxidity and cardiovascular damage including: hypertension, bad cholesterol profile: LDL increases and/or HDL decreases, enlarged heart and plaque in the arteries.
To rebut the obvious argument that some guys have been on for 30 years and show no ill effects - there are plenty of 50 year, pack a day smokers who show no ill effects, but everyone can agree that smoking is bad.
[quote]bulldog24 wrote:
I don’t think if it’s fair to say that there are no real health risks. Numerous studies show liver toxidity and cardiovascular damage including: hypertension, bad cholesterol profile: LDL increases and/or HDL decreases, enlarged heart and plaque in the arteries.
To rebut the obvious argument that some guys have been on for 30 years and show no ill effects - there are plenty of 50 year, pack a day smokers who show no ill effects, but everyone can agree that smoking is bad. [/quote]
Orals do mess with liver values, and supposedly all steroids mess up cholesterol profiles, but the most recent studies suggest that increased test isn’t enlarging any hearts or causing heart disease.
In fact it’s the opposite. Most long term users use test constantly and use less of the harsher stuff. Either way, there really isn’t any evidence that steroids are killing anyone. It’s not just the rare individual that isn’t getting hurt.
[quote]beebuddy wrote:
bulldog24 wrote:
I don’t think if it’s fair to say that there are no real health risks. Numerous studies show liver toxidity and cardiovascular damage including: hypertension, bad cholesterol profile: LDL increases and/or HDL decreases, enlarged heart and plaque in the arteries.
To rebut the obvious argument that some guys have been on for 30 years and show no ill effects - there are plenty of 50 year, pack a day smokers who show no ill effects, but everyone can agree that smoking is bad.
Orals do mess with liver values, and supposedly all steroids mess up cholesterol profiles, but the most recent studies suggest that increased test isn’t enlarging any hearts or causing heart disease.
In fact it’s the opposite. Most long term users use test constantly and use less of the harsher stuff. Either way, there really isn’t any evidence that steroids are killing anyone. It’s not just the rare individual that isn’t getting hurt.[/quote]
Actually, both arguments are valid. However it’s true that the effects are more moderate than people think (as bulldog24 said).
It does alter the quality of life, the ups and downs of going on and off cycle, feeling more in-charge on, and needing someone to hold when on clomid PCT.
This statement in itself is a gross over-generalisation, however it does grasp the issue which is… it doesn’t directly lead to death. The more often than not, unintelligent usage leads to permanent prominent gyno more than anything else.
With regards to HPTA function, it takes time(years to eternity), but it does improve(if you happen to fall into the eternity group, lets hope you last to see the day).
Chronic, prolonged, unintelligent usage, can produce conditions in the body which makes it more susceptible to other health conditions. In ridiculous cases, clogged arteries leading to heart attacks (myocardial infarctions for those who like the big words) are hypothetically possible due to really really really badly altered LDL/HDL levels.
However, it is possible to take prescription drugs to moderate that also as a stop gap measure, so it isn’t exactly an inevitable end.
I shall once again draw upon the comparison of AAS to alcohol. Alcohol can directly kill an individual within a timeframe of less than 6 hours. How?
Well very simply, 3 hours drinking, 1 hour being intoxicated, 2 hours of gradual paralysis of the cerebellum and eventually the loss of its function. Which leads to you forgetting how to breathe and to keep your heart beating.
It may sound absurd, but I’m sure statistical junkies can point to how many deaths occur.
Laying it out, steroids create and unideal environment in the body when used unintelligently and makes you more susceptible to other potential problems. Alcohol directly causes problem.
Ultimately, both these scenarios are at the extreme end of the spectrum, so it is not the norm for either. However, which is worse? That is where the answer lies.
In my view, the movie did a great job of discrediting opponents of drug use in sports. The narrator came across as solidly pro-steroids, as the lion’s share of the film was devoted to exposing the gaping holes in the media arguments against doping.
This movie demonstrated that practically everyone who is anyone in the world of athletics believes that steroids should be legal.
It also showed that idiots make up the ranks of the anti-doping crowd, such as the guy whose son killed himself after taking anti-depressants, and who wanted to blame the death on roids.
I can’t imagine any serious person supporting the ban on performance enhancing drugs. Anyone who seriously believes this is a joke, in my book.
I would wager that many people who denounce steroids in public have a decidedly more sympathetic view of them in private. I don’t think there are that many dumb people in positions of power. The ones who actually mean it are mostly no-name imbeciles.
[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
Some stupid parts though was probably the amount of time that greg valentino was allowed to talk… man he is an idiot. although alot of what he says is pretty true, but they should of made the point he used oil for his arms and not steroids. [/quote]
He is not an idiot, by any means. By meathead standards, he is pretty sharp. The fact that you and many others dislike him for his personal decision to inject site enhancing oil in his arms does not impugn his intelligence.
The movie is very entertaining and it validates the commonly held belief that “big, tough guys” are often very soft on the inside. I was amazed that nearly everyone shown in the film had conspicuous emotional problems.
This confirms the fact that weight lifting and sports truly are forms of therapy for countless young (and old) men.
Everyone is in love with “training as a life struggle” metaphors, but I’m getting tired of them, myself. I think there’s a lot to be said for the emotionally balanced individual who simply trains for the sake of training, or for the sake of improving in their sport.
I don’t train because I despise the world and everyone in it. I train because I like training and enjoy the results it brings.
It seems sometimes as if you have to be some sort of mental fuckup to be considered a “serious trainer”, which is pretty hilarious.
Weight training is a self-taught science. I don’t think there is a place for emotion in the regimen of any serious athlete. Get a therapist or a shotgun for that raging anger.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
I was amazed that nearly everyone shown in the film had conspicuous emotional problems.
This confirms the fact that weight lifting and sports truly are forms of therapy for countless young (and old) men.
Everyone is in love with “training as a life struggle” metaphors, but I’m getting tired of them, myself. I think there’s a lot to be said for the emotionally balanced individual who simply trains for the sake of training, or for the sake of improving in their sport.
I don’t train because I despise the world and everyone in it. I train because I like training and enjoy the results it brings.
It seems sometimes as if you have to be some sort of mental fuckup to be considered a “serious trainer”, which is pretty hilarious.
Weight training is a self-taught science. I don’t think there is a place for emotion in the regimen of any serious athlete. Get a therapist or a shotgun for that raging anger.[/quote]
I’m not sure I follow you here. It’s been a few months since I saw the movie, but other than the eldest bell brother who attempted suicide, and the guy who lived in his car, I dont recall being struck by the wide range of mentally ill lifters (and honestly, I dont even know if the guy who lived in his car could be clinically diagnosed as mentally ill.) I’m assuming that you’re not diagnosing chuck vogelpohl from the 10 seconds he had onscreen?
was a great film on so many levels, even my friend who hasnt any intrest in bodybuilding thought it was good. but it flawed in some aspects, like how they gave valentino so much screen time, event though he isnt famous for steroids.
however, i think the best bit was when they got a few illegals and made they’re own supplements, that was funny
I thought this movie was fantastic.
Although, I think any movie that strives to show both sides of an issue (rather than most that are so biased it hurts to watch) is a valuable resource.
I also like any movie that shows how people are so easily swayed with emotional arguments and totally disregard rational arguments.
[quote]caveman101 wrote:
was a great film on so many levels, even my friend who hasnt any intrest in bodybuilding thought it was good. but it flawed in some aspects, like how they gave valentino so much screen time, event though he isnt famous for steroids.
however, i think the best bit was when they got a few illegals and made they’re own supplements, that was funny[/quote]
Although most would deny it, Valentino’s use and abuse of synthol stems from the same underlying mentality which triggers long term AAS use.
In the movie, Valentino sounded no different than any of the other guys they interviewed. That’s why they used so much of him.
Sports fanboys like to build invisible walls of separation between various types of performance enhancers, but to the uninitiated viewer, there is surely little, if any difference.
The average person would likely find Arnold and Valentino’s arms equally “disgusting”, and he or she would be completely unable to tell which of them had used a “synthetic” enhancement.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I’m not sure I follow you here. It’s been a few months since I saw the movie, but other than the eldest bell brother who attempted suicide, and the guy who lived in his car, I dont recall being struck by the wide range of mentally ill lifters (and honestly, I dont even know if the guy who lived in his car could be clinically diagnosed as mentally ill.) I’m assuming that you’re not diagnosing chuck vogelpohl from the 10 seconds he had onscreen?[/quote]
All three brothers were “wrestling” with their own demons. All of them felt guilty to some extent for having to live a double life w/regards to their gear usage.
I would have liked to see one of the brothers sit the mom down and give her the “steroid talk”, explaining the facts and telling her that there was no legitimate reason for her to to be worried about her sons’ use of gear. Instead, they just swallowed up all of her guilt, even though they knew, presumably, that it was all bunk.
Denying one’s own AAS use to strangers and in public is the safe and smart thing to do, but there’s no need to do hide it from your own parents. Simply inform them that it’s a safe and legitimate means of improving your performance, regardless of what the government says.
However, any time a film like this comes out, I’m surprised at the number of individuals who are willing to risk imprisonment by acknowledging their use of illegal substances on camera. That can’t be the smartest thing in the world.
Like tax evasion, some things are better left to be done quietly and not spoken of.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
All three brothers were “wrestling” with their own demons. All of them felt guilty to some extent for having to live a double life w/regards to their gear usage.
I would have liked to see one of the brothers sit the mom down and give her the “steroid talk”, explaining the facts and telling her that there was no legitimate reason for her to to be worried about her sons’ use of gear. Instead, they just swallowed up all of her guilt, even though they knew, presumably, that it was all bunk.
Denying one’s own AAS use to strangers and in public is the safe and smart thing to do, but there’s no need to do hide it from your own parents. Simply inform them that it’s a safe and legitimate means of improving your performance, regardless of what the government says.
[/quote]
I don’t know if you were ever an elite athlete. Parents hear about these evil steroids from the media, and start learning falsehoods about them before they even fully understand what they are.
As I get to higher levels of hockey I’ve heard it from both my parents separately (they’re divorced and no longer talk) about how they don’t want me to “damage my body by using steroids.”
As far as I’m concerned, I’ve tried to explain that they’re just villanized by morons like Dick Pound. They don’t really listen, or don’t really want to believe me. My girlfriend is the same.
If I ever wanted to use steroids for performance enhancement, I wouldn’t be able to tell any of my family members. Of course, if a doctor prescribed them to me for HRT, everything would be a-ok.
[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
All three brothers were “wrestling” with their own demons. All of them felt guilty to some extent for having to live a double life w/regards to their gear usage.
I would have liked to see one of the brothers sit the mom down and give her the “steroid talk”, explaining the facts and telling her that there was no legitimate reason for her to to be worried about her sons’ use of gear. Instead, they just swallowed up all of her guilt, even though they knew, presumably, that it was all bunk.
Denying one’s own AAS use to strangers and in public is the safe and smart thing to do, but there’s no need to do hide it from your own parents. Simply inform them that it’s a safe and legitimate means of improving your performance, regardless of what the government says.
I don’t know if you were ever an elite athlete. Parents hear about these evil steroids from the media, and start learning falsehoods about them before they even fully understand what they are.
As I get to higher levels of hockey I’ve heard it from both my parents separately (they’re divorced and no longer talk) about how they don’t want me to “damage my body by using steroids.”
As far as I’m concerned, I’ve tried to explain that they’re just villanized by morons like Dick Pound. They don’t really listen, or don’t really want to believe me. My girlfriend is the same.
If I ever wanted to use steroids for performance enhancement, I wouldn’t be able to tell any of my family members. Of course, if a doctor prescribed them to me for HRT, everything would be a-ok.[/quote]
hows your hcoeky and training going by the way hockey champ?
[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
All three brothers were “wrestling” with their own demons. All of them felt guilty to some extent for having to live a double life w/regards to their gear usage.
I would have liked to see one of the brothers sit the mom down and give her the “steroid talk”, explaining the facts and telling her that there was no legitimate reason for her to to be worried about her sons’ use of gear. Instead, they just swallowed up all of her guilt, even though they knew, presumably, that it was all bunk.
Denying one’s own AAS use to strangers and in public is the safe and smart thing to do, but there’s no need to do hide it from your own parents. Simply inform them that it’s a safe and legitimate means of improving your performance, regardless of what the government says.
I don’t know if you were ever an elite athlete. Parents hear about these evil steroids from the media, and start learning falsehoods about them before they even fully understand what they are.
As I get to higher levels of hockey I’ve heard it from both my parents separately (they’re divorced and no longer talk) about how they don’t want me to “damage my body by using steroids.”
As far as I’m concerned, I’ve tried to explain that they’re just villanized by morons like Dick Pound. They don’t really listen, or don’t really want to believe me. My girlfriend is the same.
If I ever wanted to use steroids for performance enhancement, I wouldn’t be able to tell any of my family members. Of course, if a doctor prescribed them to me for HRT, everything would be a-ok.[/quote]
Then simply lie about it. I understand that some people will never get it. But why feel the least bit guilty, like the brothers in the film?
blah Blah blah…
I saw the film and liked it and had started another thread about it.
I love how these discussions always go awry.
It was a good look at some of the stuff surrounding usage, and the perceptions
about it.
A nice film with a good amount of humanity
thanks again Bell family.
kmc
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
I would have liked to see one of the brothers sit the mom down and give her the “steroid talk”, explaining the facts and telling her that there was no legitimate reason for her to to be worried about her sons’ use of gear. Instead, they just swallowed up all of her guilt, even though they knew, presumably, that it was all bunk.
Denying one’s own AAS use to strangers and in public is the safe and smart thing to do, but there’s no need to do hide it from your own parents. Simply inform them that it’s a safe and legitimate means of improving your performance, regardless of what the government says.
However, any time a film like this comes out, I’m surprised at the number of individuals who are willing to risk imprisonment by acknowledging their use of illegal substances on camera. That can’t be the smartest thing in the world.
Like tax evasion, some things are better left to be done quietly and not spoken of.[/quote]
But one of the main scenes in the film is when the director sits his mother down and says ‘yeah, this is what I use.’ I remember the mother saying something like ‘I can’t believe this’ and his father, non-plussed, saying ‘I can believe it - very easily.’ They already knew about the oldest brother’s use and as for Mark, presumably he found it easier to tell them through the film, knowing that they would be seeing it.
With regards to admitting to an illegal activity I asked something to that effect over on Elite and the reply was something to the effect of “Mark lives in CA, how do you know he isn’t just driving down to Mexico for his gear?” or words to that effect.
Even for someone who couldn’t use that excuse tho, I question how likely they are to get in trouble. I mean, I could post right here and right now that I was the second shooter on the grassy knoll, that doesn’t mean I could be tried for it.