poor people sure as fuck enjoy being poor, though, huh? don’t have to work. don’t have to worry about money 'cause that fucking check shows up the first of every month. don’t have to worry 'bout taxes 'cause they ain’t making nuttin to tax! sounds pretty worry fucking free to me.
meanwhile i pay the U.S. government about 45k every year so they can lay on their asses. percentages got nothing to do with it. dollars is what matters. i work for what’s mine. can’t say the same for everyone.[/quote]
Listen to yourself. You sound like the fuckin scrooge.
Obviously, money sure hasn’t made you happy. Go play with you kids.
[quote]yorik wrote:
And what about corporate income tax? Isn’t anybody sick and tired of paying all that corporate income tax?
That’s right. If you buy anything, YOU pay corporate income tax. You didn’t think that GM, Ford, Microsoft, Intel, WalMart etc. actually pay tax do you? They simply tack it on to the price of what they sell and pass that expense along to you. Corporations don’t pay any taxes at all. They make their customers pay it.
Damn corporations. [/quote]
Overseas corporations don’t pay that tax to the U.S. govt, although there are tariffs, etc. So they get a higher profit margin, esp the Chinese, which helps them undercut US producers in the US market.
If we had a national sales tax (VAT) it would address this.
US corporations have to recoup the US corporate tax for what they sell overseas, plus have the VAT mark up for what they sell overseas. Their products have to generate double taxes, which makes them less competitive.
The VAT could be excluded for health care and food. This way, people only get taxed on what they spend, and may save more.
Ummm… remember when the cigarette companies had to pay a huge settlement because their products were cancerous, and that was going to “punish” the companies?
The next day, cigarette pack prices went up by almost a dollar. Guess what? People are still smoking just as much.
If anybody here thinks that consumers don’t foot the bill for us “punishing” large corporations with taxes and lawsuits, then you are dreaming.
In fact, a case could be made for the possibility that the lawsuit actually helped Phillip Morris and pals because they could recoup their losses and then some with the price increase, and the smokers don’t even realize it. All they know is companies got sued, so prices went up. You know, kinda like how oil companies got the opportunity to raise prices for no real reason when we invaded Iraq.
What were those again? Oh yeah, the highest profits ever posted by any corporations ever. And we’re still driving, folks.
[quote]NE2000 wrote:
yorik wrote:
And what about corporate income tax? Isn’t anybody sick and tired of paying all that corporate income tax?
That’s right. If you buy anything, YOU pay corporate income tax. You didn’t think that GM, Ford, Microsoft, Intel, WalMart etc. actually pay tax do you? They simply tack it on to the price of what they sell and pass that expense along to you. Corporations don’t pay any taxes at all. They make their customers pay it.
Damn corporations.
Overseas corporations don’t pay that tax to the U.S. govt, although there are tariffs, etc. So they get a higher profit margin, esp the Chinese, which helps them undercut US producers in the US market.
If we had a national sales tax (VAT) it would address this.
US corporations have to recoup the US corporate tax for what they sell overseas, plus have the VAT mark up for what they sell overseas. Their products have to generate double taxes, which makes them less competitive.
The VAT could be excluded for health care and food. This way, people only get taxed on what they spend, and may save more.
It’ll never happen though.
Let the flaming begin.
[/quote]
I think what you want is a VAT on everything that is imported and I allready heard an American senator proposing that.
All in all probably not a bad idea, considering that you pay a VAT on our markets.
[quote]Skystud wrote:
Smitty88 wrote:
For all of the liberals who are confused as to who pays the taxes in this country.
2004 tax statistics:
Top 1% ($328-k)-----------Paid 36.89%
Top 5% ($137-k------------Paid 57.13%
Top 10%($99-k)------------Paid 68.19%
Top 25%($60-k)------------Paid 84.86%
Top 50%(30-k)-------------Paid 96.70%
Bottom 50% (under 30-k)—Paid 3.30%
Figures lie and liars figure. If you don’t beleive that look up Arthur Anderson
[/quote]
How I love the land of the Internet. A place where those with no facts can attempt to disparage those who do have the facts.
The United States Treasury statistics are not good enough for you. So, please give me your statistics from a better source regarding how much people in the above brackets are taxed. Otherwise, stop typing it’s not helping your idiotic cause.
“To the glory of mankind there was, for the first and only time in history, a country of money. And I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay than to America, for this means a country of Reason, Justice, Freedom, Production, Achievement. For the first time Man’s mind and money were set free. And there were no fortunes by conquest but only fortunes by work. And instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being — the self-made man, the American industrialist.”
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
You can’t back that up with any facts.
It is total unadulterated BULLSHIT.
There are a tiny amount of significant US corporations which are titled as “off shore.” The overwhelming majority of US corporations pay a significant amount of taxes.
Now apologize to the board for spreading left wing propaganda.[/quote]
The poster may be a left wingnut but he is right.
The majority of Fortune 500 companies do not pay a fraction of taxes from revenue generated on domestic sales.
We would have a budget surpless for a nano-second (until DC increased spending) if they did actually pay all the taxes they are suppose to pay.
Earning would tank and our stock market would crash but that is for another discussion.
[quote]summa wrote:
orion wrote:
summa wrote:
If the US only made the largest corporations (S&P 500) pay the right amount of tax, all your personal taxes could be cut. There are too many companies registered offshore. This would kill the stock market of course.
Be thankful you don’t pay what I do in Canada. It makes me want to puke.
If the US government made the largest corporations pay more taxes, US citizens would pay for it with higher prizes, or where do you think the money the companies use does come from…
First, no one has pricing power. No one! Prices will not be going up for anything…or almost anything. Second, the fucking accounting shenanigans companies are still getting away with is crazy. Companies are being run to make management rich. I am not left wing bitches, I make my living investing other peoples money. The negative of simply enforcing the current accounting rules would be lower corporate profits for shitty companies which most people own in their portfolios.
[/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Secondly - ANYONE that invests money kinows that the only job of the corporation is to maximize shareholder earnings - not management’s.[/quote]
It is one in the same as large amounts of stock options are usually involved.
But you still did not back up your original assertion:
The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
And it looks like you’re not going to.[/quote]
Orion is a left wingnut for sure but wealthy people that live off of investments only pay capital gains tax and do not pay state income tax as they usually claim their primary residence in a state that does not have personal income tax.
John Kerry’s wife is a perfect example of this. The GOP was insinuating that Theresa was cheating on her taxes because she paid less than 20% on her income. The irony was she did not draw any personal income but only had investment income that is only subject to capital gains.
Logic escapes all the wingnut from both edges of the spectrum.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
You are a complete joke. You cherry pick the bad ones and attempt to indict the entire corporate world.
If it weren’t for business - there would be no jobs for the lazy brainless slugs that think they are owed a living simply because they have a union card.
Thank God there are those out there that are not of your ilk that go out, take risks, make money and hire people.
Like it or not - you need American businesses. You would not be driving a car, typing your drivel on a computer, or wearing clothes without it. And before you say that all of those come from foreign companies - unless you are going there yourself and buying them from the source - you are every bit the hypocrit.
Sad that you are so dependent on that which you hate so badly.
Unions have outlived their usefulness, and are now nothing more than a drain on the economy.
But please - continue with your little links. My SEP is flying high on the back of evil corporations. As they say - money talks and bullshit walks.
[/quote]
Most people do not drive above the speed limit according to your arguement because the vast majority of people do not get speeding tickets.
This is what you said: The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
While you have danced quite well around the issue, you have not PROVEN your original assertion. In fact, you have not even come close.
[/quote]
But I have PROVEN that they have the possibility do avoid paying taxes and yes, it is kind of hard to find a statistic for taxes NOT paid.
If you want to believe that the rich pay more taxes than they absolutely have to, even though there are armies of tax lawyers and accountants preventing just that,please, be my guest.
But you still did not back up your original assertion:
The super rich don`t pay nothing, only around 15-20 % or so if they are clever…
And it looks like you’re not going to.
Orion is a left wingnut for sure but wealthy people that live off of investments only pay capital gains tax and do not pay state income tax as they usually claim their primary residence in a state that does not have personal income tax.
John Kerry’s wife is a perfect example of this. The GOP was insinuating that Theresa was cheating on her taxes because she paid less than 20% on her income. The irony was she did not draw any personal income but only had investment income that is only subject to capital gains.
Logic escapes all the wingnut from both edges of the spectrum.[/quote]
Please point out my left wingnuttery in this thread.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Most people do not drive above the speed limit according to your arguement because the vast majority of people do not get speeding tickets.[/quote]
Bad analogy.
DO all business cut corners and fudge? Absolutely. I make a pretty good living being a professional fudger, as it were.
There is your speeding analogy.
Does everyone that drives a car drive drunk? Probably more than gets caught - but still not a major % of the driving public engage in drunk driving.
[quote]Smitty88 wrote:
Skystud wrote:
Smitty88 wrote:
For all of the liberals who are confused as to who pays the taxes in this country.
2004 tax statistics:
Top 1% ($328-k)-----------Paid 36.89%
Top 5% ($137-k------------Paid 57.13%
Top 10%($99-k)------------Paid 68.19%
Top 25%($60-k)------------Paid 84.86%
Top 50%(30-k)-------------Paid 96.70%
Bottom 50% (under 30-k)—Paid 3.30%
Figures lie and liars figure. If you don’t beleive that look up Arthur Anderson
How I love the land of the Internet. A place where those with no facts can attempt to disparage those who do have the facts.
The United States Treasury statistics are not good enough for you. So, please give me your statistics from a better source regarding how much people in the above brackets are taxed. Otherwise, stop typing it’s not helping your idiotic cause.
[/quote]
Hey, I met Steve Forbes a couple years ago and we were talking about the flat tax. How do you guys feel about a flat tax? He told me we will see it someday.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Most people do not drive above the speed limit according to your arguement because the vast majority of people do not get speeding tickets.
Bad analogy.
DO all business cut corners and fudge? Absolutely. I make a pretty good living being a professional fudger, as it were.
There is your speeding analogy.
Does everyone that drives a car drive drunk? Probably more than gets caught - but still not a major % of the driving public engage in drunk driving.
There is your securities fraud analogy.
[/quote]
Good for you rainjack now we see your true colors. Your part of the problem, not the solution, and you come on here and belittle everyone when they say the tax system is not fair because of loopholes and yet you are one of the people behind the unfairness. ha ha ha ah