Who NEVER Wears A Weightlifting Belt??

Training Powerlifting
81

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]TigerPower wrote:
“I can squat 350 without a belt.” Yeah, so can many females. The better question is how many people don’t use a belt and can lift REAL weight (squat 500+, deadlift 500+) My guess is not many. Anybody can lift less than 300 lbs. without a belt. Those are called warmups. [/quote]

My guess is the weightlifters, or atleast 95 % of them.[/quote]

Your guess would be way off. Maybe 95% of the lifters IN THE OLYMPICS. But your view is VERY skewed by the fact that all you see is the 100 best lifters in the world.[/quote]

Do you need any more examples if the strongest guys in the world have barely ever touched a belt?

82

The huge point being missed here is this is a powerlifting forum, not olympic lifting. My perspective is based on doing the powerlfits, period. I am not looking at Olympic lifting nor do I care what they do. If you plan on competing in olympic lifting, that is a different ball game, but using a belt on heavy squats won’t hurt you one bit.

Yes, there is that no no no squat of 600 at app 200 pounds. That will make top 100 maybe in the USA. Yes, there is gear involved , but the Olympic lifter was a world champ. And there are 200 lb guys squatting over 900 lbs.

If you want to lift as heavy as possible, use a belt from 50% to 80+ % and up. Or don’t, but you’ll hold yourself back. A fellow quoted Rippetoe hear about your coring falling asleep and he’s right. You’re not hurting yourself in any way by using a belt. You’re not protecting yourself, you’re not getting any stronger.

You’re just lifting different in a way that will probably hold you back a little .

83

[quote]tom63 wrote:
The huge point being missed here is this is a powerlifting forum, not olympic lifting. My perspective is based on doing the powerlfits, period. I am not looking at Olympic lifting nor do I care what they do. If you plan on competing in olympic lifting, that is a different ball game, but using a belt on heavy squats won’t hurt you one bit.

Yes, there is that no no no squat of 600 at app 200 pounds. That will make top 100 maybe in the USA. Yes, there is gear involved , but the Olympic lifter was a world champ. And there are 200 lb guys squatting over 900 lbs.

If you want to lift as heavy as possible, use a belt from 50% to 80+ % and up. Or don’t, but you’ll hold yourself back. A fellow quoted Rippetoe hear about your coring falling asleep and he’s right. You’re not hurting yourself in any way by using a belt. You’re not protecting yourself, you’re not getting any stronger.

You’re just lifting different in a way that will probably hold you back a little . [/quote]

I in no way think that using a belt takes something away. But I’m not sure if it gives much anything either.

You want specific examples of strong weightlifters? Ridiculous but ok. Mark Henry was a weightlifter. I’m pretty sure Koklyaev considers himself a weightlifter. There. Now you are not so ignorant.

84

Holy shit, this thread is starting to bug me. When did tom63 ask for examples of strong weightlifters? Everyone knows they are strong and nothing in his post suggests otherwise. All he was saying is that the preferences of weightlifters are not really that important to powerlifters discussing squats in a powerlifting forum, as they are two VERY different sports. (And no, I’m not ignorant, as I was a competitive weightlifter for a long time before switching to PL.) The fact is, using a belt correctly will make you squat more.

You want specific examples that this works? Ridiculous but ok. Louie Simmons wears a belt. I’m pretty sure Dave Tate wears one. Jim Wendler. Robert Wilkerson. Dave Hoff. A.J. Roberts. Adam Hires. Ed Coan. Andy Bolton. Benedikt Magnusson. Derek Poundstone. The list is pages long and filled with weightlifters, powerlifters, and strongmen. The strongest squatters and pullers in the world lift with belts (Mark Henry was even wearing one when he squatted 952 as was Vasily Alexiev when he performed some of his legendary feats). The belt increases pressure in the abdominal, pelvic, and thoracic cavities, contributing to increased stability of the torso as the structures in it are supported by fluid and tissue that is tightly braced. The resulting body positioning leads to the ability to maintain better leverage throughout the lift. The belt also provides a surface to push the abs out against, acting like a brace and allowing the abs to act as a synergist with the erector spinae group. This also leads to better stability and positioning. Check out any biomechanics textbook or freshman level exercise physiology class if you want to go deeper than that. There. Now you are not so ignorant.

85

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
The huge point being missed here is this is a powerlifting forum, not olympic lifting. My perspective is based on doing the powerlfits, period. I am not looking at Olympic lifting nor do I care what they do. If you plan on competing in olympic lifting, that is a different ball game, but using a belt on heavy squats won’t hurt you one bit.

Yes, there is that no no no squat of 600 at app 200 pounds. That will make top 100 maybe in the USA. Yes, there is gear involved , but the Olympic lifter was a world champ. And there are 200 lb guys squatting over 900 lbs.

If you want to lift as heavy as possible, use a belt from 50% to 80+ % and up. Or don’t, but you’ll hold yourself back. A fellow quoted Rippetoe hear about your coring falling asleep and he’s right. You’re not hurting yourself in any way by using a belt. You’re not protecting yourself, you’re not getting any stronger.

You’re just lifting different in a way that will probably hold you back a little . [/quote]

I in no way think that using a belt takes something away. But I’m not sure if it gives much anything either.

You want specific examples of strong weightlifters? Ridiculous but ok. Mark Henry was a weightlifter. I’m pretty sure Koklyaev considers himself a weightlifter. There. Now you are not so ignorant.[/quote]

This is a powerlifting forum, correct? I never see a powerlifter compete without a belt. I’m sure some have, but most do. Do you or have you ever competed in a meet? On a platform with judges?

I have over 25 years. they use belts, they’re strong, and yes it does add something. Guys like Louie Simmons will tell you it does, as would Dave Tate. They can teach you how to use one.

And yes, I know Louie and Dave. I’ve been to Westside. I work with Dave . I’m not ignorant. I’m very well trained and pretty sort of strong. I doubt I’d be much stronger without a belt. I don’t think I would have ever developed the strength I have without one.

The question is not whether there are strong men who do not use a belt, it’s how strong are you and would you benefit from using one properly.

86

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
The huge point being missed here is this is a powerlifting forum, not olympic lifting. My perspective is based on doing the powerlfits, period. I am not looking at Olympic lifting nor do I care what they do. If you plan on competing in olympic lifting, that is a different ball game, but using a belt on heavy squats won’t hurt you one bit.

Yes, there is that no no no squat of 600 at app 200 pounds. That will make top 100 maybe in the USA. Yes, there is gear involved , but the Olympic lifter was a world champ. And there are 200 lb guys squatting over 900 lbs.

If you want to lift as heavy as possible, use a belt from 50% to 80+ % and up. Or don’t, but you’ll hold yourself back. A fellow quoted Rippetoe hear about your coring falling asleep and he’s right. You’re not hurting yourself in any way by using a belt. You’re not protecting yourself, you’re not getting any stronger.

You’re just lifting different in a way that will probably hold you back a little . [/quote]

I in no way think that using a belt takes something away. But I’m not sure if it gives much anything either.

You want specific examples of strong weightlifters? Ridiculous but ok. Mark Henry was a weightlifter. I’m pretty sure Koklyaev considers himself a weightlifter. There. Now you are not so ignorant.[/quote]

This is a powerlifting forum, correct? I never see a powerlifter compete without a belt. I’m sure some have, but most do. Do you or have you ever competed in a meet? On a platform with judges?

I have over 25 years. they use belts, they’re strong, and yes it does add something. Guys like Louie Simmons will tell you it does, as would Dave Tate. They can teach you how to use one.

And yes, I know Louie and Dave. I’ve been to Westside. I work with Dave . I’m not ignorant. I’m very well trained and pretty sort of strong. I doubt I’d be much stronger without a belt. I don’t think I would have ever developed the strength I have without one.

The question is not whether there are strong men who do not use a belt, it’s how strong are you and would you benefit from using one properly. [/quote]

Your response is better than mine and you are right. People need to start posting numbers so we can see how strong these guys are. I have deadlifted triple bodyweight in a contest and was just shy of squatting it. In old fashioned single ply 80s gear. And I used a belt.

I’ve trained at Westside. I’ve worked on Louie. I’m not some bohunk who is just spouting off here. This is not theory from some article or book. This is from almost 30 years of talking to , lifting with , working on some of the strongest and most experienced guys around.

87

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]TigerPower wrote:
“I can squat 350 without a belt.” Yeah, so can many females. The better question is how many people don’t use a belt and can lift REAL weight (squat 500+, deadlift 500+) My guess is not many. Anybody can lift less than 300 lbs. without a belt. Those are called warmups. [/quote]

My guess is the weightlifters, or atleast 95 % of them.[/quote]

Your guess would be way off. Maybe 95% of the lifters IN THE OLYMPICS. But your view is VERY skewed by the fact that all you see is the 100 best lifters in the world.[/quote]

Do you need any more examples if the strongest guys in the world have barely ever touched a belt?
[/quote]

What do I need examples for? You say 95% of weightlifters don’t wear a belt. I say that’s utter bullshit.

88

[quote]strengthstudent wrote:
Holy shit, this thread is starting to bug me. When did tom63 ask for examples of strong weightlifters? Everyone knows they are strong and nothing in his post suggests otherwise. All he was saying is that the preferences of weightlifters are not really that important to powerlifters discussing squats in a powerlifting forum, as they are two VERY different sports. (And no, I’m not ignorant, as I was a competitive weightlifter for a long time before switching to PL.) The fact is, using a belt correctly will make you squat more.

You want specific examples that this works? Ridiculous but ok. Louie Simmons wears a belt. I’m pretty sure Dave Tate wears one. Jim Wendler. Robert Wilkerson. Dave Hoff. A.J. Roberts. Adam Hires. Ed Coan. Andy Bolton. Benedikt Magnusson. Derek Poundstone. The list is pages long and filled with weightlifters, powerlifters, and strongmen. The strongest squatters and pullers in the world lift with belts (Mark Henry was even wearing one when he squatted 952 as was Vasily Alexiev when he performed some of his legendary feats). The belt increases pressure in the abdominal, pelvic, and thoracic cavities, contributing to increased stability of the torso as the structures in it are supported by fluid and tissue that is tightly braced. The resulting body positioning leads to the ability to maintain better leverage throughout the lift. The belt also provides a surface to push the abs out against, acting like a brace and allowing the abs to act as a synergist with the erector spinae group. This also leads to better stability and positioning. Check out any biomechanics textbook or freshman level exercise physiology class if you want to go deeper than that. There. Now you are not so ignorant. [/quote]

His post was basically “yeah, weightlifters are pretty strong, a top weightlifter could be as strong as an amateur powerlifter”. Just pretty ignorant in my opinion.

And hey buddy, lets get hold of ourselves here. This is not anti belt vs pro belt discussion. I just replied to one post that was absolutely ridiculous (in essence, “I don’t think you can get strong without a belt”) and weightlifters I thought was a good example, since I haven’t seen them using a belt much. I agree with your post, you could have saved the trouble of writing it.

89

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
The huge point being missed here is this is a powerlifting forum, not olympic lifting. My perspective is based on doing the powerlfits, period. I am not looking at Olympic lifting nor do I care what they do. If you plan on competing in olympic lifting, that is a different ball game, but using a belt on heavy squats won’t hurt you one bit.

Yes, there is that no no no squat of 600 at app 200 pounds. That will make top 100 maybe in the USA. Yes, there is gear involved , but the Olympic lifter was a world champ. And there are 200 lb guys squatting over 900 lbs.

If you want to lift as heavy as possible, use a belt from 50% to 80+ % and up. Or don’t, but you’ll hold yourself back. A fellow quoted Rippetoe hear about your coring falling asleep and he’s right. You’re not hurting yourself in any way by using a belt. You’re not protecting yourself, you’re not getting any stronger.

You’re just lifting different in a way that will probably hold you back a little . [/quote]

I in no way think that using a belt takes something away. But I’m not sure if it gives much anything either.

You want specific examples of strong weightlifters? Ridiculous but ok. Mark Henry was a weightlifter. I’m pretty sure Koklyaev considers himself a weightlifter. There. Now you are not so ignorant.[/quote]

This is a powerlifting forum, correct? I never see a powerlifter compete without a belt. I’m sure some have, but most do. Do you or have you ever competed in a meet? On a platform with judges?

I have over 25 years. they use belts, they’re strong, and yes it does add something. Guys like Louie Simmons will tell you it does, as would Dave Tate. They can teach you how to use one.

And yes, I know Louie and Dave. I’ve been to Westside. I work with Dave . I’m not ignorant. I’m very well trained and pretty sort of strong. I doubt I’d be much stronger without a belt. I don’t think I would have ever developed the strength I have without one.

The question is not whether there are strong men who do not use a belt, it’s how strong are you and would you benefit from using one properly. [/quote]

I know belts helps your max lifts, it’s an equipment after all but…I agree with your last paragraph.

90

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]TigerPower wrote:
“I can squat 350 without a belt.” Yeah, so can many females. The better question is how many people don’t use a belt and can lift REAL weight (squat 500+, deadlift 500+) My guess is not many. Anybody can lift less than 300 lbs. without a belt. Those are called warmups. [/quote]

My guess is the weightlifters, or atleast 95 % of them.[/quote]

Your guess would be way off. Maybe 95% of the lifters IN THE OLYMPICS. But your view is VERY skewed by the fact that all you see is the 100 best lifters in the world.[/quote]

Do you need any more examples if the strongest guys in the world have barely ever touched a belt?
[/quote]

What do I need examples for? You say 95% of weightlifters don’t wear a belt. I say that’s utter bullshit.[/quote]

Maybe it is. But lucky for me, even one weightlifter suffices for my argument.

91

No belt here. Not for any stability reason, just can’t get a good consistent fit to actually be useful. If I could get it to fit better I’d definitely wear one to push out a few more reps at the end. Deading mid 400s and squatting high 300s just for comparison.

92

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]TigerPower wrote:
“I can squat 350 without a belt.” Yeah, so can many females. The better question is how many people don’t use a belt and can lift REAL weight (squat 500+, deadlift 500+) My guess is not many. Anybody can lift less than 300 lbs. without a belt. Those are called warmups. [/quote]

My guess is the weightlifters, or atleast 95 % of them.[/quote]

Your guess would be way off. Maybe 95% of the lifters IN THE OLYMPICS. But your view is VERY skewed by the fact that all you see is the 100 best lifters in the world.[/quote]

Do you need any more examples if the strongest guys in the world have barely ever touched a belt?
[/quote]

What do I need examples for? You say 95% of weightlifters don’t wear a belt. I say that’s utter bullshit.[/quote]

Maybe it is. But lucky for me, even one weightlifter suffices for my argument.[/quote]

Major reading comprehension fail. this is a powerlifting forum. The belts used are wider and would impede in the performance of an olympic lift. So every powerlifter I know uses one. they are not weak, do not have weak cores etc.

Olympic lifters must do an ATG front squat on a clean or snatch attempt. The belt gets in the way. But I doubt anyone here can front squat 3X their bodyweight and drive it overhead or do an overhead squat with over double bodyweight.

So when people ask on a powerlifting forum about using belts I tell them to do it. When someone says olympic lifters don’t and they;re strong I think they’re retarded. And again, how much do you actually lift?

93

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]TigerPower wrote:
“I can squat 350 without a belt.” Yeah, so can many females. The better question is how many people don’t use a belt and can lift REAL weight (squat 500+, deadlift 500+) My guess is not many. Anybody can lift less than 300 lbs. without a belt. Those are called warmups. [/quote]

My guess is the weightlifters, or atleast 95 % of them.[/quote]

Your guess would be way off. Maybe 95% of the lifters IN THE OLYMPICS. But your view is VERY skewed by the fact that all you see is the 100 best lifters in the world.[/quote]

Do you need any more examples if the strongest guys in the world have barely ever touched a belt?
[/quote]

What do I need examples for? You say 95% of weightlifters don’t wear a belt. I say that’s utter bullshit.[/quote]

Maybe it is. But lucky for me, even one weightlifter suffices for my argument.[/quote]

Major reading comprehension fail. this is a powerlifting forum. The belts used are wider and would impede in the performance of an olympic lift. So every powerlifter I know uses one. they are not weak, do not have weak cores etc.

Olympic lifters must do an ATG front squat on a clean or snatch attempt. The belt gets in the way. But I doubt anyone here can front squat 3X their bodyweight and drive it overhead or do an overhead squat with over double bodyweight.

So when people ask on a powerlifting forum about using belts I tell them to do it. When someone says olympic lifters don’t and they;re strong I think they’re retarded. And again, how much do you actually lift?[/quote]

This has nothing to do with anything. Reread the arguments and counter arguments presented in the last few pages.

94

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Major reading comprehension fail. this is a powerlifting forum. The belts used are wider and would impede in the performance of an olympic lift. So every powerlifter I know uses one. they are not weak, do not have weak cores etc.

Olympic lifters must do an ATG front squat on a clean or snatch attempt. The belt gets in the way. But I doubt anyone here can front squat 3X their bodyweight and drive it overhead or do an overhead squat with over double bodyweight.

So when people ask on a powerlifting forum about using belts I tell them to do it. When someone says olympic lifters don’t and they;re strong I think they’re retarded. And again, how much do you actually lift?[/quote]

Man, tom. I have been away for a looong time and jumped in to read this thread.

Look, most competitive powerlifters squat and deadlift every week, almost 52 weeks a year. Even the conjugate guys are doing GM’s or other low back intensive compound movements in addition to weekly squatting.

The bottom line is that for a POWERLIFTER (which is what I understand this forum is geared towards) wearing a belt will go a loooong way towards limiting wear and tear and over use injuries (strains and sprains), and is basically a requirement for competition if you want to have an longevity in the sport.

Look, even the Jackal’s boys wear a belt whenever doing heavy rack pulls and at different periods in their squat training and they are perhaps one of the greatest proponents of beltless squat training wiht the results to back it up.

Tom, if I were you I would just let this kid scamper off somewhere else. You are wasting your breath.

Keep training hard, my man.

95

[quote]apwsearch wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Major reading comprehension fail. this is a powerlifting forum. The belts used are wider and would impede in the performance of an olympic lift. So every powerlifter I know uses one. they are not weak, do not have weak cores etc.

Olympic lifters must do an ATG front squat on a clean or snatch attempt. The belt gets in the way. But I doubt anyone here can front squat 3X their bodyweight and drive it overhead or do an overhead squat with over double bodyweight.

So when people ask on a powerlifting forum about using belts I tell them to do it. When someone says olympic lifters don’t and they;re strong I think they’re retarded. And again, how much do you actually lift?[/quote]

Man, tom. I have been away for a looong time and jumped in to read this thread.

Look, most competitive powerlifters squat and deadlift every week, almost 52 weeks a year. Even the conjugate guys are doing GM’s or other low back intensive compound movements in addition to weekly squatting.

The bottom line is that for a POWERLIFTER (which is what I understand this forum is geared towards) wearing a belt will go a loooong way towards limiting wear and tear and over use injuries (strains and sprains), and is basically a requirement for competition if you want to have an longevity in the sport.

Look, even the Jackal’s boys wear a belt whenever doing heavy rack pulls and at different periods in their squat training and they are perhaps one of the greatest proponents of beltless squat training wiht the results to back it up.

Tom, if I were you I would just let this kid scamper off somewhere else. You are wasting your breath.

Keep training hard, my man.[/quote]

Now and then I like to think I’m helping the great , weak, unwashed.

96

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]TigerPower wrote:
“I can squat 350 without a belt.” Yeah, so can many females. The better question is how many people don’t use a belt and can lift REAL weight (squat 500+, deadlift 500+) My guess is not many. Anybody can lift less than 300 lbs. without a belt. Those are called warmups. [/quote]

My guess is the weightlifters, or atleast 95 % of them.[/quote]

Your guess would be way off. Maybe 95% of the lifters IN THE OLYMPICS. But your view is VERY skewed by the fact that all you see is the 100 best lifters in the world.[/quote]

Do you need any more examples if the strongest guys in the world have barely ever touched a belt?
[/quote]

What do I need examples for? You say 95% of weightlifters don’t wear a belt. I say that’s utter bullshit.[/quote]

Maybe it is. But lucky for me, even one weightlifter suffices for my argument.[/quote]

Major reading comprehension fail. this is a powerlifting forum. The belts used are wider and would impede in the performance of an olympic lift. So every powerlifter I know uses one. they are not weak, do not have weak cores etc.

Olympic lifters must do an ATG front squat on a clean or snatch attempt. The belt gets in the way. But I doubt anyone here can front squat 3X their bodyweight and drive it overhead or do an overhead squat with over double bodyweight.

So when people ask on a powerlifting forum about using belts I tell them to do it. When someone says olympic lifters don’t and they;re strong I think they’re retarded. And again, how much do you actually lift?[/quote]

This has nothing to do with anything. Reread the arguments and counter arguments presented in the last few pages.[/quote]

Go to the gym and actual lift something heavy and get back to us.

97

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Go to the gym and actual lift something heavy and get back to us.[/quote]

I make sure I wear my belt, knee wraps and a squat suit, because you just can’t get strong without them. This I learned from Joe Average Strength (aka Notch Johnson). This same sentiment is being echoed in this thread. You need equipment to get strong, even though there are people who haven’t used equipment who are strong.

I don’t even understand why you chimed in. I’m not anti powerlifting nor anti belt. I just don’t like stupid arguments that are so easy to destroy.

Edit: I now realised my attitude regressed again a little bit. I have thought about this a little, and I don’t think belt can help you progress more. You won’t be using a belt when you do ab isolation exercises, and even though belt would seem to recruit more abdominal muscles, there is more to making progress than that. On the long run, I don’t think a thing like that matters.

98


sigh…

99

[quote]Wrah wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Go to the gym and actual lift something heavy and get back to us.[/quote]

I make sure I wear my belt, knee wraps and a squat suit, because you just can’t get strong without them. This I learned from Joe Average Strength (aka Notch Johnson). This same sentiment is being echoed in this thread. You need equipment to get strong, even though there are people who haven’t used equipment who are strong.

I don’t even understand why you chimed in. I’m not anti powerlifting nor anti belt. I just don’t like stupid arguments that are so easy to destroy.

Edit: I now realised my attitude regressed again a little bit. I have thought about this a little, and I don’t think belt can help you progress more. You won’t be using a belt when you do ab isolation exercises, and even though belt would seem to recruit more abdominal muscles, there is more to making progress than that. On the long run, I don’t think a thing like that matters.[/quote]

Did you just say you “learned something” from Joe Average Strength?

100

I am sort of old and I haven’t used a belt since college, but I just ordered one from EFS because I am pretty sure I need one. I had back surgery in 2006 and still have 4 herniated sics in the lumbar region (pretty much all of them) The belt will, I believe, help me get strong while adding some support to an area that was carved up like a Christmas ham. I also didn’t think much of wrist wraps, so I ordered those a few weeks back, bingo wrist and shoulder pain reduced, weights stay more in line and my bench starts moving up again. Sometimes “protective gear” is just that, and by protecting you it allows you to work out harder and lift more weight (whether it is psychological or not). Saying one group doesn’t use a belt and they are strong is as silly as those raw vs geared arguments you see on here, it is all opinion, subsequently it has no value. The fact is that I have never seen an elite level powerlifter in a meet that allowed belts not wear one, I’m sure it has happened but it is an anomaly. Subsequently, unless someone has definitive proof that belts hold you back (and that must be some super secret stuff if all the top level guys haven’t heard about it) I will accept that there is some value to wearing one. And I will look cool doing so.