Who Likes the Old School Bodybuilders?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
I’m relatively new to the site but here is a suggestion: Maybe we can get a men’s fitness forum for the guys that don’t like or appreciate muscle? You could post Fitness Routines, Conditioning Drills and Crossfit workouts all in one place.[/quote]

In Colorado, Tim stated that is exactly the mindset he was trying to move away from…thus why everything got labeled “bodybuilding” so that these people would know what the deal was.

They keep posting anyway for no reason though.

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[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I love the look of Coleman, Flex, Levrone, Evan Centopani and a ton of new guys. That’s the look I’m aiming for. I think Arnold and Sergio and Franco all looked fantastic as well but I want the freak factor too.

And when I say new, I mean recent 90’s plus bodybuilders cause obviously Flex and Levrone are no longer in the pro bodybuilding scene. [/quote]

Isn’t it funny how guys in their day were considered mammoths? Charles Atlas was considered to have the best physique around in his day. He might have barely been 200lbs. I can respect the guys who have the love of muscle enough to build them immense. I just think there reaches a point when it looks bad on the individual. To each his own though. I say do what you love. [/quote]
I looked Charles Atlas up in google. He might have been considered to have the best physique during HIS time, his body could not even be considered to be a bodybuilder with today’s standard (I am judging this from the picture linked above). A lot of things have advanced since then and your problem is not your liking of Old School BB’s but your false criticism of stating that today’s bodybuilders are all bloated and all that.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
I’m relatively new to the site but here is a suggestion: Maybe we can get a men’s fitness forum for the guys that don’t like or appreciate muscle? You could post Fitness Routines, Conditioning Drills and Crossfit workouts all in one place.[/quote]

In Colorado, Tim stated that is exactly the mindset he was trying to move away from…thus why everything got labeled “bodybuilding” so that these people would know what the deal was.

They keep posting anyway for no reason though.[/quote]

I have seen this posted about a few times but, with all strength tests, circuit, and timed challenge articles I do not see it happening. Just a few weeks ago Shugart posted an article about leaving a kettle bell at the bottom of the stairs and carrying up everytime you walk up to “burn some extra cals, get some cool G-Flux going, and probably work the core a little”.

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[quote]xAPOLLOx wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
I’m relatively new to the site but here is a suggestion: Maybe we can get a men’s fitness forum for the guys that don’t like or appreciate muscle? You could post Fitness Routines, Conditioning Drills and Crossfit workouts all in one place.[/quote]

In Colorado, Tim stated that is exactly the mindset he was trying to move away from…thus why everything got labeled “bodybuilding” so that these people would know what the deal was.

They keep posting anyway for no reason though.[/quote]

I have seen this posted about a few times but, with all strength tests, circuit, and timed challenge articles I do not see it happening. Just a few weeks ago Shugart posted an article about leaving a kettle bell at the bottom of the stairs and carrying up everytime you walk up to “burn some extra cals, get some cool G-Flux going, and probably work the core a little”. [/quote]

To be honest, you can consider the articles and the forums two separate websites. They have different title at the top of the page, for whatever reason.

This site clearly does not cater to modern bodybuilding with its articles but the best work in the bodybuilding forum definitely does.

I don’t think anyone here is arguing that the articles should represent the ideals of each specific forum. The authors should write about whatever they want and whatever people want to read. But logging into the bodybuilding forum specifically is not about appealing to every single person who wants to shed a few pounds and lift a few weights a few times a month.

45

[quote]xAPOLLOx wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
I’m relatively new to the site but here is a suggestion: Maybe we can get a men’s fitness forum for the guys that don’t like or appreciate muscle? You could post Fitness Routines, Conditioning Drills and Crossfit workouts all in one place.[/quote]

In Colorado, Tim stated that is exactly the mindset he was trying to move away from…thus why everything got labeled “bodybuilding” so that these people would know what the deal was.

They keep posting anyway for no reason though.[/quote]

I have seen this posted about a few times but, with all strength tests, circuit, and timed challenge articles I do not see it happening. Just a few weeks ago Shugart posted an article about leaving a kettle bell at the bottom of the stairs and carrying up everytime you walk up to “burn some extra cals, get some cool G-Flux going, and probably work the core a little”. [/quote]

What the hell does an article written have to do with this forum? I have been asked to write an article, but my mind doesn’t work that way. There is no cookie cutter method for this. There are too many variables. To do it justice would require something like what CT is doing…and I already have a JOB.

An article written by an author does not define this forum. I would also imagine that it is difficult to actually find people who actually have significant backgrounds who will also have the skills to write articles that people will even want to read.

They have stated many times that the articles here d not necessarily define the opinions of the people who run this site.

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I have immense respect for Atlas, as he was a good friend of my dad’s (back when he was Angelo Siciliano). But please tell me thats not someone’s final physique goal.
With the amount of information, supplements, food, variety and facilities available today, anyone should be able to bypass Atlas’s best physique within a year or two of bodybuilding. ANYone.
Ridiculous.

[quote]ghdtpdna wrote:
I looked Charles Atlas up in google. He might have been considered to have the best physique during HIS time, his body could not even be considered to be a bodybuilder with today’s standard (I am judging this from the picture linked above). A lot of things have advanced since then and your problem is not your liking of Old School BB’s but your false criticism of stating that today’s bodybuilders are all bloated and all that.[/quote]

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:
They have stated many times that the articles here d not necessarily define the opinions of the people who run this site.[/quote]

Nor should it. As a supplement company obviously Biotest has to attract a wide spectrum of customers, not merely hardcore BBers. There are days I actually read the new articles, print 'em out, highlight 'em for reference, and even take them to the gym to show people… and then there are days when I read the title, look at the author, and just click ‘T-Nation Forums’ as if there are no new articles that day. Not everything is for everyone. BUT, the problem we seem to get pretty persistently lately, appears to be people who don’t even like bodybuilding (or have no clue what they’re talking about) posting wasteful threads in the bodybuilding forum. Seriously, how many times have we seen a rant where someone complains about the way physiques were about 8 years ago, and has no clue what the current top guys even look like?!

I certainly will admit to being a fan of the older school of bodybuilders, and really do get a kick out of seeing old pics from the muscle beach days. But how can you not be inspired by the more current guys who have managed to just create such sheer mass, yet still combine it with a degree of aesthetics. Sure my favorite BBer in recent times is Yates, and I know there are folks out there who will rip his physique apart, but this was ‘The Guy’ when I started training. This was the guy who blew away all previous notions of what ‘huge’ was. This was the guy who came in so f-ing dry that he looked like he was chiseled out of stone. This was the guy who pushed himself harder than anyone else seemed to, day in and day out. Do I actually want to look like the 270 lbs Dorian Yates? Not really, but the appreciation, and inspiration is what fires me up when I go to the gym. The desire to crush all boundaries, and go as far as I can. Comparing the current guys to the pros of yesteryear is just an exercise in wasted time. Even without all of the drugs that are available, knowledge of training methodologies and nutrition (and supps) have grown so much that looking at Frank Zane’s 190 lbs 17" armed body, and knowing that he’s juiced is just laughable (I see top natty guys competing at those stats every week).

If you wanna whine and bitch though, at least be somewhat informed, this sort of stuff is getting old (and I’m sure PX must be getting an ulcer by now - I can imagine a throbbing vein is his forehead every time he writes the same rants -lol)

S

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[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
They have stated many times that the articles here d not necessarily define the opinions of the people who run this site.[/quote]

Nor should it. As a supplement company obviously Biotest has to attract a wide spectrum of customers, not merely hardcore BBers. There are days I actually read the new articles, print 'em out, highlight 'em for reference, and even take them to the gym to show people… and then there are days when I read the title, look at the author, and just click ‘T-Nation Forums’ as if there are no new articles that day. Not everything is for everyone. BUT, the problem we seem to get pretty persistently lately, appears to be people who don’t even like bodybuilding (or have no clue what they’re talking about) posting wasteful threads in the bodybuilding forum. Seriously, how many times have we seen a rant where someone complains about the way physiques were about 8 years ago, and has no clue what the current top guys even look like?!

I certainly will admit to being a fan of the older school of bodybuilders, and really do get a kick out of seeing old pics from the muscle beach days. But how can you not be inspired by the more current guys who have managed to just create such sheer mass, yet still combine it with a degree of aesthetics. Sure my favorite BBer in recent times is Yates, and I know there are folks out there who will rip his physique apart, but this was ‘The Guy’ when I started training. This was the guy who blew away all previous notions of what ‘huge’ was. This was the guy who came in so f-ing dry that he looked like he was chiseled out of stone. This was the guy who pushed himself harder than anyone else seemed to, day in and day out. Do I actually want to look like the 270 lbs Dorian Yates? Not really, but the appreciation, and inspiration is what fires me up when I go to the gym. The desire to crush all boundaries, and go as far as I can. Comparing the current guys to the pros of yesteryear is just an exercise in wasted time. Even without all of the drugs that are available, knowledge of training methodologies and nutrition (and supps) have grown so much that looking at Frank Zane’s 190 lbs 17" armed body, and knowing that he’s juiced is just laughable (I see top natty guys competing at those stats every week).

If you wanna whine and bitch though, at least be somewhat informed, this sort of stuff is getting old (and I’m sure PX must be getting an ulcer by now - I can imagine a throbbing vein is his forehead every time he writes the same rants -lol)

S[/quote]

As I wrote a lot of time so here, to me, Dorian Yates is the best bodybuilder that ever lived. Hence why I have his video and both of his books and have memorized everyone of his training programs from '83 to '97. I also believe that he was one of, if not the most articulate bodybuilders - someone who could actually explain in print and in speech why he does what he does.

This is why I also got so hot when Scott Abel said that Dorian trained his back the wrong way (this actually was one of the most hysterical things I ever read - no lie) and that “perhaps Dorian could have progressed and looked better with a different training system”. (I’m actually giggling as I type this.)

I’m just all disappointed that Scott didn’t say those things to Dorian’s face during a 300+ pound offseason condition. :slight_smile:

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Theres always lots of Jay hate on this forum, so I thought I’d just give my opinion on him. I’m a fan, to me the pure size he carries more than makes up for his thick blocky waist. He looked phenominal at 2009 Olympia and thoroughly deserved the win, not sure if he can repeat it many more times though.

I also liked Yates, I have never seen a more impressive back and legs, it made up for his comparitively weaker chest and arms, and he just had a look about his skin that made his muscles look like solid rock.

Coleman was a great all rounder, I can’t think of any weakness he had besides his stomach, but who cares.

Looking to the future, I don’t think Dexter will win it again, at least not until he builds better calves. I know Heath is a favourite, but hes a bit too narrow and I think it could cost him an Olympia title. I think the next new Mr Olympia will be Kai, in 1 or 2 years time, if Jay comes in conditioned perfectly he can hold onto the title for a bit longer.

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For anyone interested in up and coming pro’s. This is the brand new ‘hype guy’ Cedric McMillan is being touted at the second coming of Coleman. He landed on the cover of a particlar mag this month after winning the Overall at the Nationals a few months back. Probably wont see him on a big stage for a few years but it’s always nice to see how guys with this much potential progress.

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[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
I have immense respect for Atlas, as he was a good friend of my dad’s (back when he was Angelo Siciliano). But please tell me thats not someone’s final physique goal.
With the amount of information, supplements, food, variety and facilities available today, anyone should be able to bypass Atlas’s best physique within a year or two of bodybuilding. ANYone.
Ridiculous.

[quote]ghdtpdna wrote:
I looked Charles Atlas up in google. He might have been considered to have the best physique during HIS time, his body could not even be considered to be a bodybuilder with today’s standard (I am judging this from the picture linked above). A lot of things have advanced since then and your problem is not your liking of Old School BB’s but your false criticism of stating that today’s bodybuilders are all bloated and all that.[/quote]
[/quote]

Way past ridiculous. The guy who stated that has been “training” for ten years…yet still thinks Atlas’ physique is inspirational. If this were the 1950’s, he would be. he has a place in history as one of the people who helped us move to where we are now…but if the average guy can’t build more muscle than that today, something is really fucking wrong.

Atlas looked like that from mostly body weight movements…meaning he didn’t even lift weights and was still bigger than some of the guys here!!

Bottom line is that way too many of these dudes are in the wrong forum. I don’t even understand lifting for a decade yet making little to no progress.

This has to be the ONLY activity where people who FAIL at it feel the need to make their weak ass progress known as if it should be applauded. This does not happen in any other field.

You will not hear someone who can’t make a basket going off about how they deserve the same credit as NBA players.

You will not find people who dropped out of college expecting to be called “radiologist”.

Yet here, in THIS forum, every jackass who hasn’t even built enough muscle for anyone to see feels the need to fill this forum with posts meant to justify their lack of progress.

That’s pretty damn pathetic.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Just for fun, would the OP please give the rest of us a list of all that is wrong with this bodybuilder’s physique.

You know, tell us about where the bloat is…and all of the other things you find wrong with bodybuilding today compared to the 60’s…since you no doubt follow it closely.[/quote]

Not to be disagreeable, but just because someone doesn’t like the look of many professional bodybuilders today does not mean that they are automatically inexperienced lifters, shit heads, or uninterested in the sport. Even though Toney Freeman is probably the most athletic looking mainstream bodybuilder, I think he looks abnormal in this picture. His legs are so thick and his lats are freakishly wide. His look underneath paper thin bodyfat is strange. In my opinion, the older days of body building were a classic era for the sport.

There has certainly been an evolution of what the ideal physique in bodybuilding is. Just look at Sean Connery in this picture, he placed third in the Mr. Universe contest that year. Although many important advancements have been made in bodybuilding training to increase size and leanness, the modern era of the sport has clearly been drasitically affected by the addition of steroids and supplements like creatine. That is literally the only explanation for such a large change in the ideal mans physique. it is perfectly acceptable to react to that truth in your own way, but to me if it isn’t natural it isn’t beautiful.

Edit: Pics won’t load… maybe they’ll come up later

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[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[/quote]

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I can see the forum posts in 30 years:

55

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
I have immense respect for Atlas, as he was a good friend of my dad’s (back when he was Angelo Siciliano). But please tell me thats not someone’s final physique goal.
With the amount of information, supplements, food, variety and facilities available today, anyone should be able to bypass Atlas’s best physique within a year or two of bodybuilding. ANYone.
Ridiculous.

[quote]ghdtpdna wrote:
I looked Charles Atlas up in google. He might have been considered to have the best physique during HIS time, his body could not even be considered to be a bodybuilder with today’s standard (I am judging this from the picture linked above). A lot of things have advanced since then and your problem is not your liking of Old School BB’s but your false criticism of stating that today’s bodybuilders are all bloated and all that.[/quote]
[/quote]

Way past ridiculous. The guy who stated that has been “training” for ten years…yet still thinks Atlas’ physique is inspirational. If this were the 1950’s, he would be. he has a place in history as one of the people who helped us move to where we are now…but if the average guy can’t build more muscle than that today, something is really fucking wrong.

Atlas looked like that from mostly body weight movements…meaning he didn’t even lift weights and was still bigger than some of the guys here!!

Bottom line is that way too many of these dudes are in the wrong forum. I don’t even understand lifting for a decade yet making little to no progress.

This has to be the ONLY activity where people who FAIL at it feel the need to make their weak ass progress known as if it should be applauded. This does not happen in any other field.

You will not hear someone who can’t make a basket going off about how they deserve the same credit as NBA players.

You will not find people who dropped out of college expecting to be called “radiologist”.

Yet here, in THIS forum, every jackass who hasn’t even built enough muscle for anyone to see feels the need to fill this forum with posts meant to justify their lack of progress.

That’s pretty damn pathetic.[/quote]

How is it that you feel, sight unseen, you are qualified to make any judgments about how I look, train, or what I do? If you like the modern, bigger look then that’s your preference. Did I do something to offend you personally? Did I say something like “Professor X does such and such?” Have I brought your training, physique, or anything about you into question? No. If you feel the need to keep insulting me, then by all means go right ahead. It doesn’t really bother me. I actually find it funny that I debate religious beliefs on this site and get people less passionate.

For the record, I’m not writing this to offend anyone. May I also ask you, what do you do for a living?

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Anyway, sorry if everyone got flustered about this forum. I don’t blame anybody for anything they said. I see that people are MUCH more passionate about bodybuilding than I am (not to say I don’t like it). I’ll leave you to yourselves to carry on or drop out and let this forum fade into an oblivion. Either way, best of luck.

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[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

As I wrote a lot of time so here, to me, Dorian Yates is the best bodybuilder that ever lived. Hence why I have his video and both of his books and have memorized everyone of his training programs from '83 to '97. I also believe that he was one of, if not the most articulate bodybuilders - someone who could actually explain in print and in speech why he does what he does.

This is why I also got so hot when Scott Abel said that Dorian trained his back the wrong way (this actually was one of the most hysterical things I ever read - no lie) and that “perhaps Dorian could have progressed and looked better with a different training system”. (I’m actually giggling as I type this.)

I’m just all disappointed that Scott didn’t say those things to Dorian’s face during a 300+ pound offseason condition. :slight_smile: [/quote]

x2. Dorian is by far my favorite bodybuilder because of his training intensity, huge back, and methodical approach to lifting. Of the guys competing today, Kai and Branch are my favorites.

And speaking of mass monsters, I met Markus Ruhl over the weekend at the LA FitExpo. He is so wide its unbelieveable.

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Yates, and I quote,

"But then look at how much physiques have improved since the '70s and '80s. Of course people are going to come up with the drug thing, but most of that stuff was available then so it was not solely people taking more drugs. We have also had greater advances in our understanding of nutrition and what really creates muscle growth, what training we really have to do, how to get more specific with the goals we are trying to achieve. Those guys were over-training all the time so they didn’t get to that level of muscle mass. "

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:
I personally like the 80’s bodybuilders a smidge better if only because I find it easier to differentiate who and who based upon their body (arnold’s biceps, Nubret’s chest, etc…). I can still spot different bbers nowadays, but… yeah, not as easy.

Offtopic, but does anyone know what’s up with the lack of Haney talk? I seldom hear anyone talk about him, it’s always arnold, zane, etc etc etc… skip over 8 time olympia haney and go to talk about Yates.[/quote]

I’ve noticed the same when the truth is, Lee Haney is the one who set the “huge back” standard that everyone else built off of. He never gets enough credit. It is like they skip right from Arnold to Yates most of the time.

If this were ten years ago, I would have also agreed with you about the 80’s…but the current crop of guys do look very different. No one has arms like Heath. No one has a chest or the symmetry of Brandon Curry (that guy looks like God held a mirror at the middle of his sternum just to make sure everything matched up perfectly). No one has legs like Branch, traps like Johnnie Jackson, calves like House, or quads/hamstrings like Desmond Miller.

All in all, the current group of guys make it seem like 1991 all over again.

That is why it amazes me that people try so hard to ignore this.[/quote]

Personally I dont plan to get as big as most of these guys, but IF I change my mind later on, I’ll strive for a physique like Curry. Its amazing how symmetrical he is. He looks perfect (no homo). Personally I like the bodybuilders who dont really have that one freakish body part. I prefer the ones who are completely proportional with extra large portions.

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[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
I have immense respect for Atlas, as he was a good friend of my dad’s (back when he was Angelo Siciliano). But please tell me thats not someone’s final physique goal.
With the amount of information, supplements, food, variety and facilities available today, anyone should be able to bypass Atlas’s best physique within a year or two of bodybuilding. ANYone.
Ridiculous.

[quote]ghdtpdna wrote:
I looked Charles Atlas up in google. He might have been considered to have the best physique during HIS time, his body could not even be considered to be a bodybuilder with today’s standard (I am judging this from the picture linked above). A lot of things have advanced since then and your problem is not your liking of Old School BB’s but your false criticism of stating that today’s bodybuilders are all bloated and all that.[/quote]
[/quote]

Way past ridiculous. The guy who stated that has been “training” for ten years…yet still thinks Atlas’ physique is inspirational. If this were the 1950’s, he would be. he has a place in history as one of the people who helped us move to where we are now…but if the average guy can’t build more muscle than that today, something is really fucking wrong.

Atlas looked like that from mostly body weight movements…meaning he didn’t even lift weights and was still bigger than some of the guys here!!

Bottom line is that way too many of these dudes are in the wrong forum. I don’t even understand lifting for a decade yet making little to no progress.

This has to be the ONLY activity where people who FAIL at it feel the need to make their weak ass progress known as if it should be applauded. This does not happen in any other field.

You will not hear someone who can’t make a basket going off about how they deserve the same credit as NBA players.

You will not find people who dropped out of college expecting to be called “radiologist”.

Yet here, in THIS forum, every jackass who hasn’t even built enough muscle for anyone to see feels the need to fill this forum with posts meant to justify their lack of progress.

That’s pretty damn pathetic.[/quote]

How is it that you feel, sight unseen, you are qualified to make any judgments about how I look, train, or what I do? If you like the modern, bigger look then that’s your preference. Did I do something to offend you personally? Did I say something like “Professor X does such and such?” Have I brought your training, physique, or anything about you into question? No. If you feel the need to keep insulting me, then by all means go right ahead. It doesn’t really bother me. I actually find it funny that I debate religious beliefs on this site and get people less passionate.

For the record, I’m not writing this to offend anyone. May I also ask you, what do you do for a living?
[/quote]
He is a dentist, or more specifically a doctor of dental surgery i believe.