Who Can Beat Brock Lesnar?

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
What about Mariusz? He’s having his first MMA fight pretty soon, and has a karate background, and has trained boxing for a while. Strength wise, he can hang with Brock, but if it goes to the ground, but maybe not if it goes to the ground.

But, Pudz background is in strongman, Lesnar in wrestling. Lesnar has been training MMA for 3 years now, not for sure about Pudz. In the end though, I think Lesnar beats him due to skill.

wow

Hey just a thought. I didn’t say Pudz could beat him, I said Lesnar wins due to skill.

Since you said wow three times, who do YOU think can beat Lesnar?[/quote]
Yep, that was exactly what I was implying. Good thing you came along. You are obviously the only one around here that gets me.

Mir was/is the best BJJer in the HW division…Lesnar bloodied his ass up…

Couture was an Olympic wrestling alternate and likely the best wrestler in the HW division…80 years old or not…Lesnar beat him up. He knows how to beat big dudes, he’s done it his entire career at HW.

Lesnar was NCAA D1 Champion. Carwin was a D2 wrestling champ. The competition just isn’t the same when you don’t have to go up against those big Iowa boys.

Who has Carwin faced? Gonzaga…that’s it. The level of competition that Lesnar has faced is far greater than Carwin’s.

Lesnar by decision.

Fedor could beat him any way he wants…
Overeem could keep it on the feet and smash his head in, or survive on the ground
Big Nog could sub Lesnar because thats his mo

Ideally any of the three would be great fights. Bobby Lashley is still really unproven and still needs a breakout fight to prove himself.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Dude, how many times can we go over this without you spitting Lesnars nut all over your keyboard.

As many times as it takes I guess. I have been a Mir fan for longer than I have been a Lesnar fan…in MMA at least.

Mir got beat, but it was clear he completely abandoned his gameplan. He came in thinking he was gonna get an easy submission and Lesnar obviously proved otherwise.

So he couldn’t stuff the TD, couldn’t submit him, couldn’t get up, and couldn’t keep from receiving some of the most brutal GNP we’ve seen. Yep, he was in that fight all the way. So basically you are saying he has a striker’s chance of beating Lesnar. Like Kongo, Barry, or Hardonk I guess?

Lesnar held him on the ground, punched him in head until the whistle blew and still couldn’t knock him out.

Did it look to you like he was trying to finish the fight or just hold position and beat him up a little bit? We’ve seen him do that before for 3 rounds.

Round two Mir tags him a couple of times and had Lesnar’s head swimming.

yep that was a close one. Mir had him so rocked Lesnar was barely able to take him to the ground and pound the shit out of him.

If he hadn’t of tried that ridiculous jumping knee, got away from the cage and stuck to what was working he’d of win.

This is fucking retarded. How many times did Lesanr take him down? Could of would of should of. What a bunch of shit. What if Lesnar would have let him back up after the first or second TD (can’t recall timeline)? He wouldn’t have taken any damage. But that doesn’t matter because he did let him and fight resumed.

As someone else pointed out we’ve never seen Lesnars chin tested, but the few glancing shots he’s taken have clearly made him uncomfortable.

Until someone is able to capitalize on this, what difference does it make? Mir couldn’t keep from getting taken down. He couldn’t stop complete domination once on the ground. He has some work to do before a rematch.

And I don’t wanna hear any “of course he was uncomfortable, everyone is when they get hit in face…” nonsense, you know what I mean.

I know exactly what you mean. Until it effects his performance in the ring it’s silly to talk about.

I don’t dislike Lesnar.

Bullshit. you’v attempted to discredit him in countless threads. I take his performances and his strengths for what they are. You try and change the outcome of the fights he was in like his apponents were your video game.

In fact the more I watch/think about his fights the more impressed I am that he is where he is.

This should have been pretty obvious even after the loss to Mir. he is starting with an incredible base that he has worked hard for years to attain. He is not a BJJ black belt. He is not going to win a belt in any striking organization. He is not going to olymics for wresting. He is simply and MMA HW that is currently at the top of the heap. Even if he loses to Carwin, his skills remain the same and poses the same problems to other HWs as he did before the fight. We are not going to see anything less that what he has shown us before. None of him fights are flukes.

But, I think a lot of his opponents have kind of taken him lightly. Not as in they don’t respect him, as in they think they can walk through this fake wrestler 'cause he’s not a real fighter kinda thing.

as good of an excuse as any you’ve given I guess. I don’t think there is mutch doubt that HH did this, but do you really think Mir and Couture took him lightly? Mir looked better physically than I have ever seen him. He had improved his striking as well.

Carwin will not. If Carwin isn’t so nervous he floats or pulls his punches like he did early against Wellisch[sp?] he’s gonna lunchbox Lesnar, and it’s gonna be fucking awesome.

Maybe. If his TD defense or ability to avoid damage/get up are better than Mir’s, he should fair better than Mir did. It should be a competitive fight and match-up that we haven’t seen for either fighter.

I do believe Mir can make the necessary improvement to be competitive with Lesnar. The Mir that fought him on that night was not going to beat him. His striking was nulified and he was dominated in every other aspect of the fight. Could he have knocked him? Sure, but so could any of the HWs. Evaluating fights is not about hoping and dreaming someone lands the perfect shot at the perfect time.

We saw no evidense that Mir could keep from getting taken down that night. We saw no evidense that Mir could work towards a submission or get up once on the ground that night. We saw no evidens that Mir could avoid being pummled on the ground that night.

We saw Lesnar take him down on three seperate occasions, once while his head was “swimming”. We saw hinm avoid any type of submission attempt. We saw him completely dominate possition. We saw him finish the fight in brutal fasion.

Though we saw all of these things you still see a fight that Mir should have won. I don’t know what else to say.

You are obviously getting a hard on just thinking about the possibitly of Carwin knocking him out. Clearly I am the impartial one. sheesh[/quote]

You’re right in that anything Mir should’ve done differently is irrelevent. He got beat. But saying Lesnar nullified his striking or delivered some of the most debastatin g’n’p we’ve seen is a stretch even you’d have to admit. Lesnar layed on him and got basiclly unlimited open shots and gave him a pretty nice goose egg but didn’t knock him out. We’ve seen much worse. Mir shoulda stck with his gameplan [and not used Forrest Griffin as a simulation] and tagged him 'til he could set up the sub. He obviously thought he could get an easy sub and walk out the winner like he did the first time and Lesnar clearly wasn’t the same fighter. It’s not that I’m trying to discount his achievements, just think he’s been given a little much. A middle aged Couture who hadn’t fought in 18 months was winning that fight, and the ref stopped it ‘cause Lesnar was laying on his arms and seizure slappin’ him in the face and he couldn’t defend it. I just feel that Lesnar is really overrated man, and as soon as he’s faced with someone of similar size he’ll be a little lost. Also, I apologize for calling you a dicksucker.

Just remember this thread. We will come back and look at it later. DO NOT sleep on Bobby Lashley. If you can recognize someone with superior physical ability, you would know what I am talking about. He will end up in the UFC and he will beat Lesnar if Lesnar is still top dog by then.

Lesner is a very physically imposing presence who happens to sit right that the top of a weight classes limit, 265 after some water shedding.

He obviously can wrestle and has great strength.

He is definitely not a scrub or easy win.

All that said he is hardly unbeatable. He is “probably” unbeatable by these 225 pounders for the most part but alas Mir did ALREADY beat him once.

Carwin is interesting because its size versus size. But it’s not like Carwin is a top 5 Heavyweight.

Fedor would embarrass Brock because he embarrasses basically everyone and he fights smart. He actually knows the gameplan going in after studying tape then sticks to it. He’s beaten 330 pound guys who were ground and pounding him.

Brock is probably a top 10 HW but he is far from unbeatable and honestly his shtick aside not that entertaining because he has horrid stand up and no clue how to submit guys other than hold them down and hit them in the face. Its effective but rather anti-climatic.

FWIW, Mir and Couture have both fought at LHW. Yes, Brock can beat guys who can make 205…

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Just remember this thread. We will come back and look at it later. DO NOT sleep on Bobby Lashley. If you can recognize someone with superior physical ability, you would know what I am talking about. He will end up in the UFC and he will beat Lesnar if Lesnar is still top dog by then.[/quote]

Lashley has looked pretty average in his fights thus far against true tomato cans.
He would be an intriguing match up with Lesner but he isn’t a top level fighter.

He just has the size and style to match Lesner.

Part of the problem with guys that size is conditioning.
Mir should have spent the first round pretending to be Ali and sticking and moving; mostly moving. Keep the distance and make him shoot for takedowns from far out.

That basic strat would give both monstrous fighters fits and once they get tired they’ll drop their hands and eat punches in bunches.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re right in that anything Mir should’ve done differently is irrelevent. He got beat. But saying Lesnar nullified his striking or delivered some of the most debastatin g’n’p we’ve seen is a stretch even you’d have to admit. Lesnar layed on him and got basiclly unlimited open shots and gave him a pretty nice goose egg but didn’t knock him out.
[/quote]
Did you mis the end of the fight? That was brutal.

Using strikes to set up a submission. That would have been something to see.

Alright. Here’s where you dig yourself even deeper…

retarded. It was his third fight in the UFC and Couture was the champ at the time.

retarded. Couture was on the mat for quite awhile. He got smashed.

He should be ranked exactly where he is. No HW below him has recently won any tougher fights in any more convincing fasion. You can tear apart any HWs record and make a case that he’s not as good as someone else.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Just remember this thread. We will come back and look at it later. DO NOT sleep on Bobby Lashley. If you can recognize someone with superior physical ability, you would know what I am talking about. He will end up in the UFC and he will beat Lesnar if Lesnar is still top dog by then.[/quote]

You need to not post here.
Your not even an energetic nut hugger- more like a lower level troll, like lichen or a fungus.

[quote]dpready wrote:
Fedor…[/quote]

this is the answer…he is the best heavyweight fighter…ever

He would be the favorite if the two were to fight.

[quote]jazander wrote:
Lesner is a very physically imposing presence who happens to sit right that the top of a weight classes limit, 265 after some water shedding.

He obviously can wrestle and has great strength.

He is definitely not a scrub or easy win.

All that said he is hardly unbeatable. He is “probably” unbeatable by these 225 pounders for the most part but alas Mir did ALREADY beat him once.

Carwin is interesting because its size versus size. But it’s not like Carwin is a top 5 Heavyweight.

Fedor would embarrass Brock because he embarrasses basically everyone and he fights smart. He actually knows the gameplan going in after studying tape then sticks to it. He’s beaten 330 pound guys who were ground and pounding him.
[/quote]
Interesting you know this about fedor. he has said that he doesn’t go in with a gameplan or watch much tape.

[quote]
Brock is probably a top 10 HW but he is far from unbeatable and honestly his shtick aside not that entertaining because he has horrid stand up and no clue how to submit guys other than hold them down and hit them in the face. Its effective but rather anti-climatic.

FWIW, Mir and Couture have both fought at LHW. Yes, Brock can beat guys who can make 205… [/quote]
When did Mir fight at LHW? Not that it matters. So did Overeem.

FYI Carwin is NOT 6’4" like he is being marketed, there is a good thread on sherdog about the size of these 2 guys

the link is:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/what-staredown-between-lesnar-carwin-will-look-like-876460/

I hope it is a good fight but I still think that Fedor is the best guy to beat Brock

[quote]dhickey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re right in that anything Mir should’ve done differently is irrelevent. He got beat. But saying Lesnar nullified his striking or delivered some of the most debastatin g’n’p we’ve seen is a stretch even you’d have to admit. Lesnar layed on him and got basiclly unlimited open shots and gave him a pretty nice goose egg but didn’t knock him out.

Did you mis the end of the fight? That was brutal.

We’ve seen much worse. Mir shoulda stck with his gameplan [and not used Forrest Griffin as a simulation] and tagged him 'til he could set up the sub.

Using strikes to set up a submission. That would have been something to see.

He obviously thought he could get an easy sub and walk out the winner like he did the first time and Lesnar clearly wasn’t the same fighter. It’s not that I’m trying to discount his achievements, just think he’s been given a little much.

Alright. Here’s where you dig yourself even deeper…

A middle aged Couture who hadn’t fought in 18 months was winning that fight,

retarded. It was his third fight in the UFC and Couture was the champ at the time.

and the ref stopped it ‘cause Lesnar was laying on his arms and seizure slappin’ him in the face and he couldn’t defend it.

retarded. Couture was on the mat for quite awhile. He got smashed.

I just feel that Lesnar is really overrated man, and as soon as he’s faced with someone of similar size he’ll be a little lost. Also, I apologize for calling you a dicksucker.

He should be ranked exactly where he is. No HW below him has recently won any tougher fights in any more convincing fasion. You can tear apart any HWs record and make a case that he’s not as good as someone else.
[/quote]

It’s not retarded at all. He was 40 something and hadn’t fought for about a year and a half. I myself am not 40 something but hear the drop in performance [at everything] is pretty drastic. And, whether you want to admit it or not Lesnar was losing that fight and did relatively little damage when the ref stopped it. Look, Lesnar’s a big, strong, physically imposing guy, but as has been pointed out numerous times he’s beating guys much smaller than him. His advantages aren’t gonna be there against someone like Carwin. Carwins finished every fight he’s been in, not had the ref finish it for him. We do this every time someone starts these threads, and it’s obviously not gonna change.

Lesnar’s goin’ down!

[quote]jdbake wrote:
FYI Carwin is NOT 6’4" like he is being marketed, there is a good thread on sherdog about the size of these 2 guys

the link is:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/what-staredown-between-lesnar-carwin-will-look-like-876460/

I hope it is a good fight but I still think that Fedor is the best guy to beat Brock[/quote]

He was listed as 6’2 for the Napao fight. He’s prolly between 6’1 and 6’2 Who said he’s 6’4?

[quote]jdbake wrote:
FYI Carwin is NOT 6’4" like he is being marketed, there is a good thread on sherdog about the size of these 2 guys

the link is:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/what-staredown-between-lesnar-carwin-will-look-like-876460/

I hope it is a good fight but I still think that Fedor is the best guy to beat Brock[/quote]

man more and more i see the UFC turning into WWE.

[quote]blackngrey609 wrote:
jdbake wrote:
FYI Carwin is NOT 6’4" like he is being marketed, there is a good thread on sherdog about the size of these 2 guys

the link is:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/what-staredown-between-lesnar-carwin-will-look-like-876460/

I hope it is a good fight but I still think that Fedor is the best guy to beat Brock

man more and more i see the UFC turning into WWE. [/quote]

Explain please? If you’re referring to Brock’s behaviour, I personally have never bought this whole TMA fighter respect thing. It’s very cool to see humble and classy guys like Henderson and Fedor, but I sure as hell don’t expect them all to be cool like that. Having some people who are crazy disrespectful motherfuckers is not actually out of place in a sport where men beat each other half to death in a steel cage IMO.

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
jdbake wrote:
FYI Carwin is NOT 6’4" like he is being marketed, there is a good thread on sherdog about the size of these 2 guys

the link is:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/what-staredown-between-lesnar-carwin-will-look-like-876460/

I hope it is a good fight but I still think that Fedor is the best guy to beat Brock

He was listed as 6’2 for the Napao fight. He’s prolly between 6’1 and 6’2 Who said he’s 6’4?[/quote]

Dana always talks about Lesnar finally fighting a “monster” like Carwin and I wanted to share this with everyone on this forum so they know how big he actually is.

That being said he still has punchers chance. He has a ton of power.

Now that I see the size difference, it looks like they just built up Carwin so Lesnar can walk through him. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a punchers chance but Lesnar is the bigger of the two.

yah i just watched the Gonzaga carwin fight and they looked about the same size. UFC has carwin listed at 6’5 264pds and gonzaga at 6’1 242. Couture wansn’t much smaller than Gonzaga in there fight. So i’m gonna say that Brock is DEFINATELY going to big the bigger man fight night. Not gonna get into the rest of the bickering though just wanna see the fight and am hoping its good.

[quote]jdbake wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
jdbake wrote:
FYI Carwin is NOT 6’4" like he is being marketed, there is a good thread on sherdog about the size of these 2 guys

the link is:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/what-staredown-between-lesnar-carwin-will-look-like-876460/

I hope it is a good fight but I still think that Fedor is the best guy to beat Brock

He was listed as 6’2 for the Napao fight. He’s prolly between 6’1 and 6’2 Who said he’s 6’4?

Dana always talks about Lesnar finally fighting a “monster” like Carwin and I wanted to share this with everyone on this forum so they know how big he actually is.

That being said he still has punchers chance. He has a ton of power.[/quote]

If he’s only 6 foot, it makes me think that he’s even thicker and more muscular than I previously thought so I dunno about him not being a monster. At any rate my favourite for the fight is Brock, I think he’ll get it, but definitely not one I’ll be betting on.