White Girl Beaten In England

[quote]Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
lixy wrote:
The ones who can’t leave (think a John Smith who recently converted), should according to him be put in concentration camps.

It wouldn’t be the first time they did that…Japanese Americans got a taste of that during WW II. I often wondered what would have happened if the hijackers were Sudanese or were “Black” Muslims.

Evil whitey must be at it again with the Muslims, right?

Did you read, “In Defense of Internment?”

No I didn’t, and no one said anything about “whitey”.[/quote]

If “whitey” is not implied by the statement you made, I retract mine and apologize.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
lixy wrote:
The ones who can’t leave (think a John Smith who recently converted), should according to him be put in concentration camps.

It wouldn’t be the first time they did that…Japanese Americans got a taste of that during WW II. I often wondered what would have happened if the hijackers were Sudanese or were “Black” Muslims.

Evil whitey must be at it again with the Muslims, right?

Did you read, “In Defense of Internment?”

No I didn’t, and no one said anything about “whitey”.

If “whitey” is not implied by the statement you made, I retract mine and apologize.[/quote]

I don’t beat around the bush…I’d say white man…but “they” in this instance is the U.S. Government.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

Still, no one here wants to talk about the actual hate preached by Imams and contained in Islamic doctrine itself, or whether or not we have anything to genuinely fear from Muslims, or whether the acts of 9/11 were a valid expression of enjoinders to wage jihad contained in Islamic jurisprudence. No, it’s just, “Anti-Muslim hate crimes, anti-Muslim hate crimes…” Does anyone care to explain why that is? Does anyone care to know what Al-Azhar University in Cairo actually teaches regarding jihad? Does anyone care whether Osama Bin Laden was a genuine mujahid, or are we just going to sit here and pine over a small number of hate-crimes against Muslims and those mistaken for Muslims after Muslims killed 3,000 of our countrymen?

And what exactly are you proposing? Blood for blood? There are no standing army’s to fight. It is not cut and dried. Even the bible advocates the use of violence but not everyone follows it to the letter…they pick and choose what they want that suits their agendas…so you can have Imams that preach the violence but what do you do with the 1,000s more that don’t and their followers?

People immediately start talking about the Bible when Islam is mentioned. It’s a non sequitur. Christianity may be the most violent religion in the world, and it still has nothing to do with Islam. But you’ve just demonstrated you probably don’t care what Islam actually teaches and aren’t interested to learn.

How does it not…you are basing your the argument on the actions of the few, relative to the Muslims of the world, because of what’s written in their sacred text. The western worlds sacred text has calls for violence as well…we just don’t blindly follow it. I’m not going to debate theology, it wasn’t my subject in school. I’m simply stating that I won’t condemn all for the actions of the few…I’ve gotten enough of that in my own life.

You don’t want to debate theology, but do want to debate theology. If Muslim sacred texts are understood to support open ended violence against unbelievers who don’t pay jizyah when it’s demanded of them, then perhaps we actually have something to fear from them. The 'Umdat al-Salik is an authoritative explanation of how Muslims understand jihad. Perhaps you ought to investigate it before you make common cause with them:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0915957728/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link[/quote]

Do you honestly believe evry follower of Islam has it in for us?

[quote]Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
lixy wrote:
The ones who can’t leave (think a John Smith who recently converted), should according to him be put in concentration camps.

It wouldn’t be the first time they did that…Japanese Americans got a taste of that during WW II. I often wondered what would have happened if the hijackers were Sudanese or were “Black” Muslims.

Evil whitey must be at it again with the Muslims, right?

Did you read, “In Defense of Internment?”

No I didn’t, and no one said anything about “whitey”.

If “whitey” is not implied by the statement you made, I retract mine and apologize.

I don’t beat around the bush…I’d say white man…but “they” in this instance is the U.S. Government.[/quote]

Well nobody like them - the US government I mean.

[quote]Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Qaash wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

Still, no one here wants to talk about the actual hate preached by Imams and contained in Islamic doctrine itself, or whether or not we have anything to genuinely fear from Muslims, or whether the acts of 9/11 were a valid expression of enjoinders to wage jihad contained in Islamic jurisprudence. No, it’s just, “Anti-Muslim hate crimes, anti-Muslim hate crimes…” Does anyone care to explain why that is? Does anyone care to know what Al-Azhar University in Cairo actually teaches regarding jihad? Does anyone care whether Osama Bin Laden was a genuine mujahid, or are we just going to sit here and pine over a small number of hate-crimes against Muslims and those mistaken for Muslims after Muslims killed 3,000 of our countrymen?

And what exactly are you proposing? Blood for blood? There are no standing army’s to fight. It is not cut and dried. Even the bible advocates the use of violence but not everyone follows it to the letter…they pick and choose what they want that suits their agendas…so you can have Imams that preach the violence but what do you do with the 1,000s more that don’t and their followers?

People immediately start talking about the Bible when Islam is mentioned. It’s a non sequitur. Christianity may be the most violent religion in the world, and it still has nothing to do with Islam. But you’ve just demonstrated you probably don’t care what Islam actually teaches and aren’t interested to learn.

How does it not…you are basing your the argument on the actions of the few, relative to the Muslims of the world, because of what’s written in their sacred text. The western worlds sacred text has calls for violence as well…we just don’t blindly follow it. I’m not going to debate theology, it wasn’t my subject in school. I’m simply stating that I won’t condemn all for the actions of the few…I’ve gotten enough of that in my own life.

You don’t want to debate theology, but do want to debate theology. If Muslim sacred texts are understood to support open ended violence against unbelievers who don’t pay jizyah when it’s demanded of them, then perhaps we actually have something to fear from them. The 'Umdat al-Salik is an authoritative explanation of how Muslims understand jihad. Perhaps you ought to investigate it before you make common cause with them:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0915957728/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

Do you honestly believe evry follower of Islam has it in for us?[/quote]

No. I’ve studied more Islam than most of the Muslims I’ve encountered so far. But I’ve never discussed jihad with any of them, so I don’t know what kind of reaction I’d get. I’ve mostly discussed the concept of Jesus as we understand it and they do. Muslims believe that Christians are polytheists and guilty of shirk, which is the highest form of blasphemy.

Still, at issue is the orthodox understanding of their faith. It is not a peaceful religion, there have been 10,798 Muslim terrorist attacks throughout the world since 9/11, and we have much to fear from Islam in general, as the Indonesian, Pakistani, Nigerian, and Darfurian unbelievers in Islam will tell you.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Hell, after 9/11, many Indians or those of middle eastern decent were targeted directly so where are you getting this point of view?

That is a Muslim lie.

Whites have never in history suffered the most from hate crimes based on race.

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Arab conquest of Spain, which stemmed from an Arabist supremacism known as Islam? It’s the same ideology that killed millions of Hindus on the Indian subcontinent when the Arabs ruled it. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Barbary powers, who enslaved several million Europeans they captured in pirate raids staged out of Arab north Africa? We could get into the Turks at Constantinople in 1453 or at the gates of Vienna in 1683 as well. I’m sure any Greeks here could say a thing or two about living under Turkish rule. [/quote]

PRCalDude, there have been a lot of attacks on Sikhs in the US and Canada. I’m also a Sikh and know personally of a Sikh who wore the traditional attire(turban) being shot dead while operating his family business (Petrol station).
Of another instance two very well known Sikh brothers who ran a very successful restaurant on the east coast were murdered in cold blood.

In both instances the Police stated in the Punjabi newspaper
my mum reads that they were hate crimes. N.B. these crimes were committed within a year of 9/11.

In the UK i’ve personally dealt with two occasions where me and my friends(my black friend got targeted too just for being good friends with us) were attacked because of our colour. It’s a real shame.

This thread is three pages too long already.

Isn’t Bush’s foreign policy to blame?

[quote]PRCalDude, there have been a lot of attacks on Sikhs in the US and Canada. I’m also a Sikh and know personally of a Sikh who wore the traditional attire(turban) being shot dead while operating his family business (Petrol station).
Of another instance two very well known Sikh brothers who ran a very successful restaurant on the east coast were murdered in cold blood.

In both instances the Police stated in the Punjabi newspaper
my mum reads that they were hate crimes. N.B. these crimes were committed within a year of 9/11. [/quote]

That’s a definite shame. Every Sikh I’ve met has been friendly. I personally find it hard to mistake them for Arabs or Middle-Easterners, but that’s just me I guess.

Oh I forgot to mention from first hand experience of being in India: not all Muslims are extremists! Yes there are some wackos there but the guys i met in the Gold’s gym there were very down to earth and fun to talk to.

It’s rather stupid to make a blanket statement about a whole society of people based on the actions of a crazy minority.

However I dislike how many Muslims believe in converting as many people as they can and that is a stupid belief. As if they are better than everyone else, but on the other hand many Hindu’s, Sikhs, Jew’s and Christians are like that too aren’t they? (Edit: as in believing they are superior).

Therefore my belief that most people are morons is supported.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
PRCalDude, there have been a lot of attacks on Sikhs in the US and Canada. I’m also a Sikh and know personally of a Sikh who wore the traditional attire(turban) being shot dead while operating his family business (Petrol station).
Of another instance two very well known Sikh brothers who ran a very successful restaurant on the east coast were murdered in cold blood.

In both instances the Police stated in the Punjabi newspaper
my mum reads that they were hate crimes. N.B. these crimes were committed within a year of 9/11.

That’s a definite shame. Every Sikh I’ve met has been friendly. I personally find it hard to mistake them for Arabs or Middle-Easterners, but that’s just me I guess. [/quote]

lol. I’m very light skinned due to shitty English weather, whenever I go to India or meet South Indians (Sikhs who are predominantly Punjabi i.e. north Indians tend to be light skinned) they think i’m middle eastern. But after spending only a few weeks in India i’m a dark chocolate colour.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Still, no one here wants to talk about the actual hate preached by Imams and contained in Islamic doctrine itself, or whether or not we have anything to genuinely fear from Muslims, or whether the acts of 9/11 were a valid expression of enjoinders to wage jihad contained in Islamic jurisprudence…[/quote]

and on and on it goes, ad nauseum…

The reason why nobody wanted to debate all these issues in this particular thread - issues which, no doubt, you lose countless hours of sleep over every night - is because they had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the subject at hand.

Nothing that is, until you chimed in with another piece of carefully rehearsed diatribe.

From a youtube video showing inner city (possibly racially motivated) violence in the UK and a rather ‘popular’ discussion on whether white people suffer an inordinate amount of racial violence in US/UK cities…to 15th century atrocities committed by the savage muslim hordes.

Wow! How did we end up here? Oh wait - you dragged us here again.

Elsewhere you wrote:

"…which is why you see Central Asians, Somalis, and Malays with ridiculous Arab names dressing and acting like wannabe 7th century Arabs, praying to Arabia and its fallen space rock in covered in the Kabbah in Mecca, and following an Arab prophet, and asking, “How high?” whenever the Arabs say, “JUMP!”.

What puerile comments! What school yard rubbish you sink to!

What are these ‘ridiculous’ Arab names that you speak of? Are they Ibrahim, or Malik, or Omar? Or even, god forbid, Muhammad? Are these the names which strike you as so ridiculous on a Malay, an Uzbek, or a Tamil…?

Is it perhaps those with more flamboyant appellations - the hapless ‘Ali Addul-rahmans’ or ‘Sajid Haider Khans’ of this world that you object to so much?

Or is it, finally, the ‘hajis’ - that most dreaded string of syllables?

Why on earth should any of these Arab names sound ridiculous - whether on an Arab or non-Arab?

Do countless South American, Indian or Filipino Christians suffer under a similar strain of ‘ridiculous’ western Christian names? Do the Gonzales’, Fernandes’ and De La Cruze’ of Latin America and Asia also deserve your abject scorn for ‘playing padre’, for aping the civilizations that bought them Christianity?

What of their prayers to European saints, their faithful obedience to the Pope, or their fervent celebrations of all number of Western/Christian rites and rituals?

Or is the answer just this simple? Because such things come from enlightened Christianity, not hopelessly - and inherently - bedeviled Islam…

But of course, I forgot. You don’t really hate all these non-Arab muslims, do you? In fact, it’s precisely the non-Arabs, the ‘natives’ themselves, who your sentiments lie with! You’re on their side! If only these people could open their eyes, and throw off the yoke of centuries old Arab/muslim oppression. Yes, that sounds about right. PR CalDude, ever the man of the people! Unless the people happen to be muslim…

What a facile outlook. As if non-Arab muslims are so unaware of the lingering sentiments of Arab cultural superiority. As if non-Arab muslims are not confident enough, not secure enough in precisely their own identity as non-Arab muslims to have their own prejudices, their own laughs at the expense of such traditional Arab haughtiness.

As if they are not perfectly aware of the trappings of Arab culture and tradition which are so entwined with Islam…and yet still fondly, and with sound mind, willing to accept Islam.

Instead, all you can do is reduce them to the level of wannabees
…‘pretend’ arabs.

What arrogance! But then again, what little surprise. After all, there is indeed a great deal of arrogance in you. For in your own words, if anything can ‘redeem’ this shitty thread, hope lies with your off-topic history discussion (a euphemism if ever there was one!) So there we have it folks. PRCalDude…The Redeemer!

You, and your discussion, redeem nothing. You offer nothing. No genuine insight, no meaningful experience to draw upon…just the same old tired links to jihad-watch at every opportunity.

You once called me an arab apologist. That was after I pointed out your rather un-Christ like attitude towards the suffering of Palestinians, something which you seemed almost hurt by (such sentiment!)…

Perhaps now you will call me an arabist. But whatever I am, what you are is certain: sadly, nothing more than a modern day internet crusader, one with scant real understanding of his enemy but secure nevertheless in the knowledge that ‘the cross will triumph over the crescent’…but most of all, everywhere and ever ready to fight the good fight against the great ‘Muslim lie’.

[quote]red bull wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Still, no one here wants to talk about the actual hate preached by Imams and contained in Islamic doctrine itself, or whether or not we have anything to genuinely fear from Muslims, or whether the acts of 9/11 were a valid expression of enjoinders to wage jihad contained in Islamic jurisprudence…

and on and on it goes, ad nauseum…

The reason why nobody wanted to debate all these issues in this particular thread - issues which, no doubt, you lose countless hours of sleep over every night - is because they had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the subject at hand.

Nothing that is, until you chimed in with another piece of carefully rehearsed diatribe.

From a youtube video showing inner city (possibly racially motivated) violence in the UK and a rather ‘popular’ discussion on whether white people suffer an inordinate amount of racial violence in US/UK cities…to 15th century atrocities committed by the savage muslim hordes.

Wow! How did we end up here? Oh wait - you dragged us here again.

Elsewhere you wrote:

"…which is why you see Central Asians, Somalis, and Malays with ridiculous Arab names dressing and acting like wannabe 7th century Arabs, praying to Arabia and its fallen space rock in covered in the Kabbah in Mecca, and following an Arab prophet, and asking, “How high?” whenever the Arabs say, “JUMP!”.

What puerile comments! What school yard rubbish you sink to!

What are these ‘ridiculous’ Arab names that you speak of? Are they Ibrahim, or Malik, or Omar? Or even, god forbid, Muhammad? Are these the names which strike you as so ridiculous on a Malay, an Uzbek, or a Tamil…?

Is it perhaps those with more flamboyant appellations - the hapless ‘Ali Addul-rahmans’ or ‘Sajid Haider Khans’ of this world that you object to so much?

Or is it, finally, the ‘hajis’ - that most dreaded string of syllables?

Why on earth should any of these Arab names sound ridiculous - whether on an Arab or non-Arab?

Do countless South American, Indian or Filipino Christians suffer under a similar strain of ‘ridiculous’ western Christian names? Do the Gonzales’, Fernandes’ and De La Cruze’ of Latin America and Asia also deserve your abject scorn for ‘playing padre’, for aping the civilizations that bought them Christianity?

What of their prayers to European saints, their faithful obedience to the Pope, or their fervent celebrations of all number of Western/Christian rites and rituals?

Or is the answer just this simple? Because such things come from enlightened Christianity, not hopelessly - and inherently - bedeviled Islam…

But of course, I forgot. You don’t really hate all these non-Arab muslims, do you? In fact, it’s precisely the non-Arabs, the ‘natives’ themselves, who your sentiments lie with! You’re on their side! If only these people could open their eyes, and throw off the yoke of centuries old Arab/muslim oppression. Yes, that sounds about right. PR CalDude, ever the man of the people! Unless the people happen to be muslim…

What a facile outlook. As if non-Arab muslims are so unaware of the lingering sentiments of Arab cultural superiority. As if non-Arab muslims are not confident enough, not secure enough in precisely their own identity as non-Arab muslims to have their own prejudices, their own laughs at the expense of such traditional Arab haughtiness.

As if they are not perfectly aware of the trappings of Arab culture and tradition which are so entwined with Islam…and yet still fondly, and with sound mind, willing to accept Islam.

Instead, all you can do is reduce them to the level of wannabees
…‘pretend’ arabs.

What arrogance! But then again, what little surprise. After all, there is indeed a great deal of arrogance in you. For in your own words, if anything can ‘redeem’ this shitty thread, hope lies with your off-topic history discussion (a euphemism if ever there was one!) So there we have it folks. PRCalDude…The Redeemer!

You, and your discussion, redeem nothing. You offer nothing. No genuine insight, no meaningful experience to draw upon…just the same old tired links to jihad-watch at every opportunity.

You once called me an arab apologist. That was after I pointed out your rather un-Christ like attitude towards the suffering of Palestinians, something which you seemed almost hurt by (such sentiment!)…

Perhaps now you will call me an arabist. But whatever I am, what you are is certain: sadly, nothing more than a modern day internet crusader, one with scant real understanding of his enemy but secure nevertheless in the knowledge that ‘the cross will triumph over the crescent’…but most of all, everywhere and ever ready to fight the good fight against the great ‘Muslim lie’.

[/quote]
Good to see I’ve ticked off another Islamist.

What’s your name btw? Mohammed? Ibrahim? How are the martyrdom operations going these days? Still praying to that rock in Arabia?

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:

Good to see I’ve ticked off another Islamist.

What’s your name btw? Mohammed? Ibrahim? How are the martyrdom operations going these days? Still praying to that rock in Arabia? [/quote]

Cute. Real cute. But wait…you aren’t a bigot at all, huh?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

Good to see I’ve ticked off another Islamist.

What’s your name btw? Mohammed? Ibrahim? How are the martyrdom operations going these days? Still praying to that rock in Arabia?

Cute. Real cute. But wait…you aren’t a bigot at all, huh?[/quote]

Ad hominem appears to be your forte. I would have thought someone with your proclaimed intelligence could do better.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

Good to see I’ve ticked off another Islamist.

What’s your name btw? Mohammed? Ibrahim? How are the martyrdom operations going these days? Still praying to that rock in Arabia?

Cute. Real cute. But wait…you aren’t a bigot at all, huh?

Ad hominem appears to be your forte. I would have thought someone with your proclaimed intelligence could do better. [/quote]

Do better than what? You are making fun of people’s names and religions. Where the fuck is YOUR intelligence?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:

Good to see I’ve ticked off another Islamist.

What’s your name btw? Mohammed? Ibrahim? How are the martyrdom operations going these days? Still praying to that rock in Arabia?

Cute. Real cute. But wait…you aren’t a bigot at all, huh?

Ad hominem appears to be your forte. I would have thought someone with your proclaimed intelligence could do better.

Do better than what? You are making fun of people’s names and religions. Where the fuck is YOUR intelligence?[/quote]

Who says I have any? But if I don’t, it should be easy to refute my claims rather than yelling, “Bigot!”, shouldn’t it?

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Still, at issue is the orthodox understanding of their faith. It is not a peaceful religion, there have been 10,798 Muslim terrorist attacks throughout the world since 9/11[/quote]

Where did you find that statistic?

[quote]Wimpy wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Still, at issue is the orthodox understanding of their faith. It is not a peaceful religion, there have been 10,798 Muslim terrorist attacks throughout the world since 9/11

Where did you find that statistic?
[/quote]

and are there no statistics about terrorist acts from other religions or creeds? or is that irrelevant?