I think the most important things said in the article were at the end, “As for black Americans, they need to repudiate their “leaders” and let go of past grievances, lest they self-destruct.”
I have a real question for you Prof X. How were you and other successfull blacks coming from poor, rough environments able to get to where you are while others go no where?
The ex-mayor of Newark, a black man, sent his kids to private school. Had he been white and done the same I wonder if that would have drawn cries of racism. Also, some of the most racist (maybe it’s not the right term) people I have met have been blacks towards other blacks.
In terms of racism I have found thaat racism is even practiced in Africa itself. Dring mycollegiate years (the 70’s). I journeyed to central Africa and visited some villages with my colleagues for research. I am white and my friendwas black. The children and even some of the adults asked us (through a translater) what I used to lightn my skin. I didn’t respond. Even in the village the children who had lighter skin were treated better. It seems they derive their own sense of inferiority from their own culture.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
But the question is; will this hypersensitivity help or hurt race relations? Can we move forward as a nation to embrace all races while we are so focused on our differences? i.e. “_______” - American.
The reason the song “I’m black and I’m proud” was a hit in the 60’s was because before then, there was no anthem for Black Americans to get behind. There needed to be a public cry of pride for who you are. There weren’t even black Barbie dolls before the 1980’s.
For a race of people to build past an event that robbed them of their entire history, there has to be a period of focus on where your place is in society.
The only reason I can think of as for why so many seem to not understand this, is that they want to pretend as if knowing where you come from is a nonissue.
To understand exactly where you are going, you do have to understand where you have been. Black Americans are unlike any other racial group in society when it comes to having lost every aspect of their own history. What sense does it make to pretend as if your association doesn’t matter?
The moment I stop getting pulled over for being black while driving is the exact moment that whether I am “black american” or “white american” becomes a nonissue.
Too many of you seem to want one without the other. Stop profiling, stop public racism that is disproportionately aimed at minorities and none of these labels will ever matter again. The power is, and always has been, in the hands of the majority.
[/quote]
That makes sense, but I believe you are overemphasizing racial history as a motivating factor. Blacks born in the US have an American history, not an African history.
What would you call a Black who wanted to just be American and didn’t want to connect to his racial heritage? Uncle Tom?
The history of this issue has also been that Blacks who wanted to embrace America as their “roots” and culture were put down by other Blacks as “White” or somehow going against the Black people.
As far as the racial profiling; I believe that will stop when there is NOT a higher percentage of one race committing crime, terrorism, being illegal, etc. Profiling is based on statistical facts. These facts are that a greater percentage of Blacks commit violent crimes; a greater percentage of Mexicans came to the US illegally, etc.
So when the percentage of crime by race evens out to be equal among all races is when racial profiling will stop. Prior to that the police are just playing the odds based on statistics.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
What would you call a Black who wanted to just be American and didn’t want to connect to his racial heritage? Uncle Tom? [/quote]
You seem confused. I’ll tell you why. Very rarely am I ever considered “a man”. A white person can be considered “a man” and all of their actions will only represent that one person as an individual. A black person is seen as a representation of an entire race. Therefore, I am usually seen as “a black man”, not just “a man”. That was why one previous poster tried to justify racial profiling. Therefore, since anyone truthful to themselves acknowledges that society does work like this, the individual who gains more status in society but then tries to distance himself from all concerns from the black community will always be seen as a blatant sell out. It doesn’t work only one way.
The moment my actions only reflect upon me alone…the moment that someone isn’t trying to relate the actions of black criminals to me to justify cops pulling me over because I “fit the description”…is the moment that these labels will mean nothing at all.
[quote]
As far as the racial profiling; I believe that will stop when there is NOT a higher percentage of one race committing crime, terrorism, being illegal, etc. Profiling is based on statistical facts. These facts are that a greater percentage of Blacks commit violent crimes; a greater percentage of Mexicans came to the US illegally, etc. [/quote]
So, you want one without the other. You want the power to treat me unfairly based on the actions of others…AND you want me to ignore those same others in all other aspects of my life?
In all reality, how does this make sense to you?
It is a lose-lose situation on my part while you get to sit back and enjoy nothing but positives as a non-minority. yet you don’t see the problem? Please.
Then stop worrying about the use of “black american” if you refuse to simply see me as AN AMERICAN and not as a statistical representation of my entire race.
Again, for the slow people, the power is and always has been in the hands of the majority.
Sorry X but you are wrong. It is not just black people who are not viewed as individuals (sometimes). ALL ethnics in this country have been seen as representative of some stereotype of their people at some time. Besides, black people racial profile as well. Jesse Jackson admitted that he would be more afraid of a group of black youths than white.
Why should white people be singled out and made to feel bad for doing something that black people do? Maybe the solution is to really ask why this happens and not be afraid of the answers.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You seem confused. I’ll tell you why. Very rarely am I ever considered “a man”. A white person can be considered “a man” and all of their actions will only represent that one person as an individual. A black person is seen as a representation of an entire race. Therefore, I am usually seen as “a black man”, not just “a man”. That was why one previous poster tried to justify racial profiling. Therefore, since anyone truthful to themselves acknowledges that society does work like this, the individual who gains more status in society but then tries to distance himself from all concerns from the black community will always be seen as a blatant sell out. It doesn’t work only one way.
[/quote]
I agree that this does occur. However, generalizations and stereotypes are used frequently, but not just for blacks. All races, including White have stereotypes, i.e. Whites are racists! Whites can’t dance! White can’t jump! Etc…
I don’t think you know whom you are talking to? I happen to be of Mexican decent and am still a statistical minority in the US. How often do you think those of Latin decent get harassed when they live by the Mexican/US border just because of they way we look? In fact, even within Mexico the “lighter” looking people are treated differently than the darker. So I know what you are talking about. But I also don’t know how else it could be done? If you and I fit the “description” and statistically our race does more of whatever, it makes logical sense for the police to look at us more closely.
So is the REAL problem the fact that police use statistical data to increase the chances of stopping crime? Or, is the problem that certain races are in fact causing more problems in certain areas than other races? If you take pride in your race and want to fix the issues that Blacks struggle with, then you have to look at crime as a major factor and not excuse it by saying that the profiling is unfair.
That is a good point. However, aren’t you perpetuating the profiling by purposefully separating yourself by race from the rest of the country?
Maybe it’s just that our situations are different, but not many of Mexican decent that are US citizens want to be called Mexican American as we frequently have to prove we are American. So using anything other than American would be counter productive.
When did the American dream become the African American dream? I don’t believe that was what MLK had in mind.
“And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.” Dr Martin Luther King
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
What would you call a Black who wanted to just be American and didn’t want to connect to his racial heritage? Uncle Tom?
You seem confused. I’ll tell you why. Very rarely am I ever considered “a man”. A white person can be considered “a man” and all of their actions will only represent that one person as an individual. A black person is seen as a representation of an entire race. Therefore, I am usually seen as “a black man”, not just “a man”. That was why one previous poster tried to justify racial profiling. Therefore, since anyone truthful to themselves acknowledges that society does work like this, the individual who gains more status in society but then tries to distance himself from all concerns from the black community will always be seen as a blatant sell out. It doesn’t work only one way.
The moment my actions only reflect upon me alone…the moment that someone isn’t trying to relate the actions of black criminals to me to justify cops pulling me over because I “fit the description”…is the moment that these labels will mean nothing at all.
As far as the racial profiling; I believe that will stop when there is NOT a higher percentage of one race committing crime, terrorism, being illegal, etc. Profiling is based on statistical facts. These facts are that a greater percentage of Blacks commit violent crimes; a greater percentage of Mexicans came to the US illegally, etc.
So, you want one without the other. You want the power to treat me unfairly based on the actions of others…AND you want me to ignore those same others in all other aspects of my life?
In all reality, how does this make sense to you?
It is a lose-lose situation on my part while you get to sit back and enjoy nothing but positives as a non-minority. yet you don’t see the problem? Please.
So when the percentage of crime by race evens out to be equal among all races is when racial profiling will stop. Prior to that the police are just playing the odds based on statistics.
Then stop worrying about the use of “black american” if you refuse to simply see me as AN AMERICAN and not as a statistical representation of my entire race.
Again, for the slow people, the power is and always has been in the hands of the majority.[/quote]
Hi Professor…
Lets get back “on topic” here for a minute.
I am very interested in your opinion of the article that opened this thread; not really enchanted by the in-fighting going on with everyone on the forum here.
Lets get back on topic: What did you agree with or disagree with?
I thought the article was right on.
Of course I have seen many good men like the author of this article shouted down on places like FOX News and CNN by other black men. They are usually, from what I have seen, not considered as being “really black”. It’s kinda sad actually…
Peace…
Don
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
I agree that this does occur. However, generalizations and stereotypes are used frequently, but not just for blacks. All races, including White have stereotypes, i.e. Whites are racists! Whites can’t dance! White can’t jump! Etc…[/quote]
Ah, yes. And how has the white population been held back by the joke that white men can’t jump? I mean, shit, that is so old and outdated, the movie made in the NINETIES even joked about it. I am sure Justin Timberlake will be shocked to find that the concept has kept him from finding his way. Are cops pulling over white guys to check to see if they have great moves?
[quote]
I don’t think you know whom you are talking to?[/quote]
Doesn’t matter.
[quote] I happen to be of Mexican decent and am still a statistical minority in the US. How often do you think those of Latin decent get harassed when they live by the Mexican/US border just because of they way we look? In fact, even within Mexico the “lighter” looking people are treated differently than the darker. So I know what you are talking about. But I also don’t know how else it could be done? If you and I fit the “description” and statistically our race does more of whatever, it makes logical sense for the police to look at us more closely.
So is the REAL problem the fact that police use statistical data to increase the chances of stopping crime? Or, is the problem that certain races are in fact causing more problems in certain areas than other races? If you take pride in your race and want to fix the issues that Blacks struggle with, then you have to look at crime as a major factor and not excuse it by saying that the profiling is unfair. [/quote]
Wait, I thought the goal was to STOP all of these labels. How is it my job to look after the entire black community…while you also want me to STOP associating with the black community? WTF?
[quote]
That is a good point. However, aren’t you perpetuating the profiling by purposefully separating yourself by race from the rest of the country? [/quote]
Isn’t that what you just told me to do? You wanted me to do that because of crime, remember? Now you DO NOT want me to do it. It sounds like you need to make up your damn mind.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
When did the American dream become the African American dream? I don’t believe that was what MLK had in mind.
“And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.” Dr Martin Luther King
[/quote]
Again, stop looking at negatives in society as an association with race and that will go a long way to fixing that. T%he problem is, you don’t want to do that, and neither do many “nonminorities”. You want to continue that concept while also looking down on those who associate by race.
Again, how does this make sense to you? Either get rid of it all…or shut up about it.
[quote]PtrDR wrote:
Hi Professor…
Lets get back “on topic” here for a minute.
I am very interested in your opinion of the article that opened this thread; not really enchanted by the in-fighting going on with everyone on the forum here.
Lets get back on topic: What did you agree with or disagree with?
I thought the article was right on.
Of course I have seen many good men like the author of this article shouted down on places like FOX News and CNN by other black men. They are usually, from what I have seen, not considered as being “really black”. It’s kinda sad actually…
Peace…
Don
[/quote]
I thought that piece was a waste of my time to read. Perhaps “the reverend” should have focused on people like Amadou Bailo Diallo instead of Sean Bell. THAT is what is “kinda sad”.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
The following quote is one that backs the observation and point made earlier in this thread that racism appears to be worse in northern states as opposed to southern states.
“the prejudice of race appears to be stronger in the states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists; and nowhere is it so intolerant as in those states where servitude has never been known.”
Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America
PGA wrote:
Speaking from personal experience and living in the north, I have seen more racism below New Jersey than above it. Of course it still exists but its definitely not as plentiful as it is in the south. Why thats the case I don’t know. I never tried to analyze it.
I’ve been caught in between race fights in Florida (wrong place wrong time. Dont every go to a county fair in Florida) where as I have not heard of or seen a “race” fight where I live and lived all my life. We are diverse where I live, as I had more black friends than white growing up. So thats not it. Its not lily white here.[/quote]
A “young-black-male” I know grew up and lived in Oklahoma his entire life, and recently moved to work in Mississippi.
His words, paraphrasing:
“I swear there are people down here that would hang me just for being black if they knew they wouldn’t get caught! It ain’t like that in Oklahoma. I’m coming back as soon as I can!”
[quote]Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Hi Professor…
Lets get back “on topic” here for a minute.
I am very interested in your opinion of the article that opened this thread; not really enchanted by the in-fighting going on with everyone on the forum here.
Lets get back on topic: What did you agree with or disagree with?
I thought the article was right on.
Of course I have seen many good men like the author of this article shouted down on places like FOX News and CNN by other black men. They are usually, from what I have seen, not considered as being “really black”. It’s kinda sad actually…
Peace…
Don
I thought that piece was a waste of my time to read. Perhaps “the reverend” should have focused on people like Amadou Bailo Diallo instead of Sean Bell. THAT is what is “kinda sad”.[/quote]
Interesting and I candidly say I am not surprised.
[quote]PtrDR wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Hi Professor…
Lets get back “on topic” here for a minute.
I am very interested in your opinion of the article that opened this thread; not really enchanted by the in-fighting going on with everyone on the forum here.
Lets get back on topic: What did you agree with or disagree with?
I thought the article was right on.
Of course I have seen many good men like the author of this article shouted down on places like FOX News and CNN by other black men. They are usually, from what I have seen, not considered as being “really black”. It’s kinda sad actually…
Peace…
Don
I thought that piece was a waste of my time to read. Perhaps “the reverend” should have focused on people like Amadou Bailo Diallo instead of Sean Bell. THAT is what is “kinda sad”.
Interesting and I candidly say I am not surprised.
[/quote]
Well, I candidly say that your response added nothing to this thread and could have been witheld all together. Thanks for sharing.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
When did the American dream become the African American dream? I don’t believe that was what MLK had in mind.
“And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.” Dr Martin Luther King
Again, stop looking at negatives in society as an association with race and that will go a long way to fixing that. T%he problem is, you don’t want to do that, and neither do many “nonminorities”. You want to continue that concept while also looking down on those who associate by race.
Again, how does this make sense to you? Either get rid of it all…or shut up about it.[/quote]
Ok, if those are my choices then I choose to get rid of all labels.
So all blacks in the US are just American’s, no better and no worse than anyone else. No special privileges, no special treatment, no affirmative action choosing them over other equally or more qualified candidates, no nothing!
Sounds good to me.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
When did the American dream become the African American dream? I don’t believe that was what MLK had in mind.
“And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.” Dr Martin Luther King
Again, stop looking at negatives in society as an association with race and that will go a long way to fixing that. T%he problem is, you don’t want to do that, and neither do many “nonminorities”. You want to continue that concept while also looking down on those who associate by race.
Again, how does this make sense to you? Either get rid of it all…or shut up about it.
Ok, if those are my choices then I choose to get rid of all labels.
So all blacks in the US are just American’s, no better and no worse than anyone else. No special privileges, no special treatment, no affirmative action choosing them over other equally or more qualified candidates, no nothing!
Sounds good to me.
[/quote]
If there were truly no discrimination based on race, no profiling and no social barriers, there would be no need for programs designed to overcome those.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Hi Professor…
Lets get back “on topic” here for a minute.
I am very interested in your opinion of the article that opened this thread; not really enchanted by the in-fighting going on with everyone on the forum here.
Lets get back on topic: What did you agree with or disagree with?
I thought the article was right on.
Of course I have seen many good men like the author of this article shouted down on places like FOX News and CNN by other black men. They are usually, from what I have seen, not considered as being “really black”. It’s kinda sad actually…
Peace…
Don
I thought that piece was a waste of my time to read. Perhaps “the reverend” should have focused on people like Amadou Bailo Diallo instead of Sean Bell. THAT is what is “kinda sad”.
Interesting and I candidly say I am not surprised.
Well, I candidly say that your response added nothing to this thread and could have been witheld all together. Thanks for sharing.[/quote]
Well, I am not at all surprised by your response.
Quite frankly, over the many months of interacting with you and reading your posts,I have to suspect that you are man of anger.
I am not, of course, aware of the reasons why. Maybe you didn’t get the love and acceptance of a father that was consistently in you life. Or, maybe you have never accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?(Believe me, I have dealt with both issues on my own adult life.) God IS in the business of transforming hearts and lives.
Nevertheless, I am not trying to be mean spirited.
I expected an angry or at least sarcastic response from you.
You delivered.
You seem to be man of intellect. Where did you heart get left behind??
Blow me off as a T-Nation idiot if you like. That would be easy enough to do.
All I can really say in my regard is that I push heavy iron like yourself; I draw breath 16-18 times a minute, I have NOT lived a life of entitlement; and that I have driven myself to educate myself in my field(medical), my practice(working with troubled youth), and I am committed to THE ONE whose name is above ALL names.
Peace be with you Professor.
Don
Profiling is a legit tool of law enforcement however race should not always be the only factor involved but sometimes it is enough.
It does not always involve black people however. If a white person is in a black neighborhood, especially one known for drugs or hookers, he has a good chance of being stopped based on the fact that he is white. Where I live there are parts of town where if you see a white person they are looking for drugs or hookers.
[quote]PtrDR wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Professor X wrote:
PtrDR wrote:
Hi Professor…
Lets get back “on topic” here for a minute.
I am very interested in your opinion of the article that opened this thread; not really enchanted by the in-fighting going on with everyone on the forum here.
Lets get back on topic: What did you agree with or disagree with?
I thought the article was right on.
Of course I have seen many good men like the author of this article shouted down on places like FOX News and CNN by other black men. They are usually, from what I have seen, not considered as being “really black”. It’s kinda sad actually…
Peace…
Don
I thought that piece was a waste of my time to read. Perhaps “the reverend” should have focused on people like Amadou Bailo Diallo instead of Sean Bell. THAT is what is “kinda sad”.
Interesting and I candidly say I am not surprised.
Well, I candidly say that your response added nothing to this thread and could have been witheld all together. Thanks for sharing.
Well, I am not at all surprised by your response.
Quite frankly, over the many months of interacting with you and reading your posts,I have to suspect that you are man of anger.
I am not, of course, aware of the reasons why. Maybe you didn’t get the love and acceptance of a father that was consistently in you life. Or, maybe you have never accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?(Believe me, I have dealt with both issues on my own adult life.) God IS in the business of transforming hearts and lives.
Nevertheless, I am not trying to be mean spirited.
I expected an angry or at least sarcastic response from you.
You delivered.
You seem to be man of intellect. Where did you heart get left behind??
Blow me off as a T-Nation idiot if you like. That would be easy enough to do.
All I can really say in my regard is that I push heavy iron like yourself; I draw breath 16-18 times a minute, I have NOT lived a life of entitlement; and that I have driven myself to educate myself in my field(medical), my practice(working with troubled youth), and I am committed to THE ONE whose name is above ALL names.
Peace be with you Professor.
Don[/quote]
Thank you again for NOT responding to the topic of this thread. Would you mind sharing your apparently “expert” ability to psychoanalyze others? Your ability to be that wrong has got to come in handy. Someone can simply listen…and believe the opposite. I would never blow you off as a T-Nation idiot. Why would I waste the time?