Well it seems that everyone has fallen into the bjj = groundfighting trap. This is true in some schools but not all (just like every martial art). At my school we focus on vale tudo. This means that while a good 60% of our work is grappling focused (ground/throws) we also do a lot of striking (about 40%). You will also see that most grappling mixes striking in and most striking mixes grappling in. Believe it or not we even do “self defense” - you can’t get your blue belt (like a brown/black in most arts) without having a solid base. We also fight full-contact a large portion of the time and of course compete in practically every combat sport from bjj/judo all the way up to nhb.
Just wanted to say how much I am enjoying this thread. Most of theses posts are really interesting. The one thing is with all the arguing we probably scared off the original poster. The advice I would give to him is to decide what he wants to defend against. Multiple attackers? experienced martial artist? a person who is armed? or just a big drunk with no experience in fighting? When you decide what you are looking for then try to find an instuctor that isn’t really into for the money and ask him to recommend a style for you. Most instructors know other instructors in the area and usually have a basic knowledge of what they teach. If it’s not a commercial enterprise you would be surprised how often they will try to steer you in a good direction. That being said I would like to add my two cents to the discussion. Brock the northern styles of kung fu are more likely to be long range fighting arts and tend to be much better looking than the southern styles that are more short range and seem to be more practical. A case in point is the first form of wing chun is called sil lum tao. The first half of it consists of 8 hand movements and can take up to an hour to perform. Needless to say the only way you will win a form competition is if the judges award you to stop before they die of boredom. Also even though Bruce Lees first art was wing chun it was rumored that he only learned half of the forms before he came to America so that is why he developed his own style JKD. Also though wing chun does have kicks the version I learned was 90% hands with very little kicking. Geoff I have always been very interested in Vale Tudo. Do you do any type of sensitivity training or is it more of a hard style. Also Brock any instructor that make you work at the first form for 6 months must have turned out some really excellent practitioners have any made a splash in the martial arts world? Well thanks again for such varied and interesting opinions.
The problem with most martial arts is they don’t prepare you for the moment when you need it. Most attacks happen suddenly and often the defender is overwhelmed by the shock of being attacked and therefore freeze, trained or not.
The only martial art that prepare’s you for “the moment” is Krav Maga. No traditional bullshit, just easy to learn and higly effective.
Take up Boxing and become a bouncer. You will learn how to assess situations and get real combat experience (and get paid at the same time). Train for the first strike and soon it will be all you need.
For a newbie to martial arts, and one who is purely interested in practical, effective self-defense, (and for someone who has narrowed it down to either Brazilian Jiu Jitsu or Krav Maga), which of the two do you guys think is (a) more effective and (b) easier to pick up? Thanks for your input.
sickpuppy, vale tudo is lots of fun. I can’t think of any sensitivity training that would help. We train in a similar manner to boxers, wrestlers, and judoka - in other words hard. While stuff from a variety of martial arts is thrown in you won’t see any forms or step sparring. This is more sport training (the best kind IMO) than most “traditional” styles. I am not overly found of instructors like Brock’s who made him do forms for 6 months - in my experience if you aren’t training against a resisting opponent then you aren’t learning much. It may be a great art that’s being learned but it’s combat effectiveness is suspect. My school has attracted a lot of instructor from other schools, especially tradiational ones, who come and work out with us once a week to enhance what they are teaching they’re students. The problem with martial arts in general is that people pay to train as opposed to somehting like wrestling where you have to make the team. This has contributed to the huge # of Mcdojo’s across North America. I am afraid that bjj is already moving in that direction.
Sorry for the slow response time but why does Scars = garbage?
Crav Maga is fake.
Molsonman: explain please. (?)
I don’t think Krav Maga is crap, but it isn’t the greatest either in my experience. It doesn’t have as solid a technical background as it could IMO and it does too much of the “eye gouge” techniques which can’t be practiced. Still, it’s not bad compared to most and if you find a hard ass instructor it could be really good.
Scars = crap because all Jerry did was steal from the Line training that they teach in the military. If you have ever seen a military guy fight hand to hand then you would understand what I mean - of course some guys can but they have generally been trained somewhere else. Any martial art or system that claims it can do miraculous things for you in a short period of time should be looked on with doubt. The truth is you will never learn to defend against a punch until you have someone trying to hit you - same goes with virtually everything. And for the weapons guys out there - how many of you actually carry you sticks with you on the street? As much as I respect stuff like Kali (Dog Bros. are super badass) it has trouble being applied to everyday life.
To BB, the USMC martial arts program is receiving a very strong emphasis from the Commandant. He just released an ALMAR message (All Marine 042/01) re-emphasizing the importance of martial arts in the USMC…and even said he was considering making it an evaluation category in the fitness report system for all Marines…and to do so on the same level as our current physical fitness evaluation categories. The current goal is for “every Marine to earn a tan belt by FY03”. The tan belt is the first belt in the system. Here’s a link, not sure if it will work though…but best of luck!
http://www.usmc.mil/almars/almar2000.nsf/1babcf316f87f38c852569b8008017e7/6e0c6a7da0f69e7785256acd004f5078?OpenDocument
Thanks bro. Actually, I already stumbled upon that, and there was an article in Usa today and men’s health (which I’ll touch on later), but I was wondering if you’ve been training in it? The other articles weren’t too indepth. I can’t wait to find out once my friggin recruiter calls me back. I lost the required weight, I just can’t get him to return my damn calls. In any case, stay safe.
So Geoff, if you were a newbie like me and had to choose just one martial art, with your goal being the most effective, REAL WORLD self-defense, what would you choose? BJJ? Thanks again.
That’s actually a much harder question than you think. If I knew the clubs in your area I would be better able to make a reccomendation. I like bjj but some schools aren’t great for self-defense although I would generally reccomend it over Krav Maga. What school are you looking at (name, location)? Judo is another great art for self-defense although it contains no striking - if your on the street and someone grabs a proficient judoka they are heading to the pavement at a rapid pace. Judo is also very cheap compared to most martial arts - it’s often taught by excellent instuctors at your local YMCA.
I’m sort of puzzled as to why you chose my post for a rebuttal? I never stated all fights end on the ground now did I? Henceforth my opinion that one must also know some form of stand up fighting which I believe the best to be some form of kickboxing or boxing. Primarily because they are practical and purely striking arts. All boxing and kickboxing concentrate on is rapid powerful blows while avoiding being hit. However any bjj fighter will TRY and bring his opponent to the ground as this is were they have the advantage. As for bitting and eye gouging they(the bjj stylist) can do the same back and in most cases when someone is in a properly applied choke hold they(being the other fighter) can’t bite or eye gouge back. As for multiple attackers with respect to grappling, I’m sorry this is a moot point when more than 1 person attacks you unless they are complete geeks…run!!! 2 or 3 or 10 guys are going to kick your ass end of story. As for weapons that’s generally the same deal. However I could see how a striker would do better than a grappler against a knife. But as I said before I think grappling by itself is not complete hence the kickboxing/boxing.
What is this femur snapping flip? The way you explained it I can't see a femur being snapped. This must be some move. Please explain better.
As for other things you said I agree, usually the strongest fittest most aggressive guy wins. Aggression being very important.
Lastly all these standing arm and wrist locks you mentioned I also learned in while taking bjj.
I look forward to your comments. 
Keago
Warren Peace to Nkeago: I agreed with most of what you said, especially about the striking arts and bjj. With multiple attackers though…I disagree…I mean, what if you’re defending a loved one as well as yourself…do you run? Also, the femur snapping move is “tai otoshi”. I went back and doublechecked with my sensei and with the cops in the dojo on this one…they all said, it can either dislocate the knee or snap the femur…Also, I didn’t think I was responding to your previous post…I just picked that particular place to chime in. /// To BronxBomber, I just looked into the MCMAP here at my duty station. We’ve got a lot of guys certified at least to the tan belt level and we have more courses going all the time. I hope to go to tan and grey by December, but I still haven’t started yet. Eventually, there will be graphics on the USMC webpage showing the different techniques…until then there’s not to much available in the form of reference material. I’ve been told it’s mostly standup fighting until the green belt level…at that point they start ground grappling too. Out here.
warrenpeace, tai otoshi is a great throw, I like to combine it with uchimata myself. However, although it could break the femur it is highly unlikely - judo throws in general were designed to be safe as it is a sport (and this is a judo throw). If the throw is done properly your uki will land flat on his back. In the street this will really knock the wind out of him but unless you have modified the throw (in which case it’s no longer tai otoshi) you probably won’t cause too much damage - just enough:).
Was waiting for your reply for a while. Thanks for filling me in on the throw. About the multiple attackers obviously your not going to leave your family there and your not going to give up as there is always a chance. It’s just that against many opponents your art isn’t going to make much of a difference as they will all be “whuping your ass at the sametime”.
Keago
Dude! Your in NYC! Go see Marco Lala!!! Don’t wait! The guy is awesome. I think he has more than one dojo, not certain though.
I would have to concur with most of these guys that Brazilian Jiu-jitsu is the way to go. It does seem however, that everyone seems to have forgotten about good old western boxing. A combination of the two would probably do well for most anyone.