Who woah woah! Bronx, didn’t you READ Hetyey’s post? DON’T QUESTION HIS EXPERIENCE, man!! I think that means his facade would crack quicker than plaster of paris, but maybe he’s threatening you. You gonna let that happen? Huh? huh? Aren’t you scared? 
I didn’t realize that Tony G was looking for the quickest way to learn martial arts. I thought he was looking for one that had real life self defense potential. To me that means being attacked by one person or multiple people or people with weapons. The fact of the matter is that no one self defense is best. Some are better in certain circumstances but may have weaknesses in others. If you do want to become proficient in defending yourself taking shortcuts wouldn’t be in my opinion the best way to go about it. All the systems that I mentioned have one thing in common there is really no tournaments or competitions in them. The reason is simple. These martial arts are meant to be used to kill or severely injure. They are not meant to be a sport. Have I ever been in a fight? Yes too many to count but they were all before I did martial arts. The only thing that could make me fight now is if I was defending my life or the life of my family. Did I waste my time taking martial arts? After all I have never used them. No the reason being they made me a better person. That’s what martial arts should be about. If your taking them so that you can inflict pain on somebody else you’re wasting your time. I use my martial arts every day in that I am more humble, confident, centered and caring person. I can’t imagine what I would be like without having taken classes. So with that I will end with a heartfelt Peace!
This is why martial art posts are such a waste of time. It is such a physicality that you need to stop being an armchair fighter and do it. To quote Bruce Lee “I don’t know what your going to do, but you better do it fast!”
What about SCARS, does anyone have any experience with it?
Most “street” experts agree that competing in a full contact combat sport is crucial in being able to defend oneself on the street. The big problem with most Karate/Kung Fu schools is that they don’t fight - of course it’s because they are too deadly:). This is why most “sporting” martial arts are reccomended ie. boxing, judo. This does not mean there aren’t excellent Karate schools out there - it’s just that there are very few. Scars = garbage. Try some Tony Blaur stuff to supplement your sport training.
this is one of the few threads that exp. does matter, say what you want but how can anyone talk about the best way to defend yourself if they never had to defend themselves? does anyone REALY think that say 1 year of training would be better spent in a dojo then in a boxing gym (in regards to defending yourself)? I took TKD for a while but I stopped after I got tired of getting yelled at by the “instructor” for takeing his “black belts” down to the ground, went to a boxing gym instead, there was not ONE boxer in the gym I went to (Costello’s) that I would not bet money on against the “instructor” from the TKD school, NOT ONE (and he was a forth degree), if you want an exercise class go to a dojo, if you want to be able to defend yourself go to a boxing gym. ufc ain’t nothng like reality but even there the fights end on the ground with someone punching someone else in the head or with a choke hold, how often do they end with a roudhouse kick to the head? has it EVER happened? sure, it is alot easier to try one when you KNOW you ain’t goona get killed if you miss (just choked out). multiple attackers, sure you may use a kick to create distance (though better off running) but thats about it. people may not like someone putting down something they spent the last X years “studdying” but reality ain’t always nice. PEACE
Hi,
Why don’t you read some more about Jeet Kune Do. There’s no reason why you can’t learn to grapple AND strike. And in a bar, I have seldom seen a fight go to the ground. Boxing, jiu jitsu, thai boxing, yes, even wing chun, have moments in a fight where those skills can be invaluable. Jiu jitsu happens to be the flavor of the month, that’s all. Last time I checked, the octagon wasn’t made of concrete (with no disrespect intended to grapplers, whom I’m still learning a great deal from!).
wow, you took a black belt. whoopdedooda. i was whippin up on black belts when I was a white belt, too. its not hard, if you dont follow the strict rules of sparing. See, if someone approaches the interaction with the assumption that no sweeps or grappling is allowed, they are much more likely to do different things. then you just sweep their base leg and down they go. but, if they do not approach the interaction with that preconception, it is another story. i will admit, a jumping spinning crescent kick would never land in a real world situation, but its still cool to watch. but, if you step back for a second, remove your head from your ass, and think, you would see many applications of any martial arts style. nothin makes somebody think twice about startin it when he is in your face and all the sudden he is on the ground because you just sidekicked his knee. trust me on this one. same thing goes for locking. its hard for somebody to do any harm to me if they have to break their own arm just to get to me. see what im sayin? not that i am dissing any martial art, or boxing, or tae bo, or whatever, they all have their pros and cons. but no one school is complete. but, if you learn, think for yourself, and apply, its not a question of whats wrong with this particular one, but a question of what i can gain from it.
$10 on the fact that if i squared up with an ametuer boxer at your gym, i would lose the boxing match. but, i would ignore the rules and go for his friggin knees, cuz thats the last thing he would expect. see what im sayin?
I dig bruce lee, ‘you better do it fast.’
I have done a buch of martial arts and I think boxing takes the cake. The reason being is that there is no gap between what you practice and what you are supposed to learn. When you hit the pads, heavy bag, or another man in the ring you are moving and punching just like you would be doing in a fight. Any move/technique is only as good as you are proffiecient at it, and that requires lots of reps, too many techniques can get you confused. With that being said, if you are not a natural fighter it is an uphill climb. Also, if you think you are going to fight someone just jump him fast while he is talking, preemptive defense.
I’ve taken Karate, Brazillian Ju-Jitsu and Kickboxing and I may have a few pearls of wisdom. One alot of it is how you train not the art. ie: lots of bag work and full contact sparing, wrestling, conditioning, no point sparing crap. That being said most karate, kung-fu etc etc schools concentrate on point sparring.
Two practical versus impractical. Kickboxing, Thai boxing, grappling, ju-jitsu wrestling etc. are very practical. There is no claw of the eagle mimic a monkey kick the guy in the balls while you in a crane stance horse shit. As colin stated it can’t be too complicated or have all these different attacks. Boxing/kickboxing and grappling arts are all relatively simple compared to all the forms and elaborate strikes and kicks in kung-fu and karate is about as natural feeling as Pamela Lee’s knockers. Wasn’t it Bruce Lee that trimed down Wing-chung cause it was too complicated?
Three the individual not to mention the teacher can have an enormus effect on all of the above.
All that aside I’m sure when I was at my best there where plenty of kung-fu guys who could have kicked my ass. However these same people if skilled in kickboxing and grappling etc would have got it done alot more effectively.
Therefore if I was to start practicing again my core skills would be Brazillian Ju-Jitsu and Thai-Kickboxing, with most of my effort on actual sparing and wrestling(and both at the sametime). Then I would also keep an open mind and maybe pull something in from Sambo or Hapkido or Jeet-Kune-Do etc. That and I would carry a big fucking gun. Braaahahahahah!!! Oh yeah I would put bullets in the gun too.
Keago
For me, the best martial art I ever studied was
when I was 15 years old and spent 18 months
learning Uechi Ryu which is an Okinawan style
between Hard and Soft forms. I spent
6 months learning and reflecting on sanshin,
the first and most basic kata from which
all else flowed from. Ask a yandan in
Uechi if he hasn’t learned a lot since even
nidan from this simple kata. I also did
a lot of tournemant sparring and once competed
at Boston University. This martial art taught
me to “think” and it gave me confidence because
I was a small guy, maybe 125 pounds or so and
after reaching green belt with a brown stripe,
I felt that I could assess a situation better.
Tournemant fighting taught me a lot and I
always competed in the brown or higher
rank so I would learn something and there
would be “full contact”. I learned that
most of the Chinese arts kick butt for forms
and they dominated the weapons classes.
Wushu is amazing. But most Chinese styles
teach cool looking and not practical stuff.
Because once you are not “awed” by their
“performance”, you tend to kick their asses
every time. I learned that Korean arts,
like Tang Soo Do/Tae Kown Do/Hapkido like
high kicks and flying kicks. So you can
bait a Korean into a high kick and sweep the
other leg with ease. I learned that Muay
Thai practioners, some of the toughest
guys around get frustrated if you keep to
outside. I learned that Japanese styles,
like Shotokan and Kenpo are rigid and hard,
and if you can get them moving off angles
and straight lines into circles, it throws
them way off. I never fought against
any of the grapplers though at this point.
No art is fool proof. I had to fight a guy
who was a student of a fanatical militarist
who developed his own style called ‘Je Chi
Modern Survival’ in a tourney. And this guy
tatto’ed my ass badly. He was aggressive
and cautious…a deadly combo.
I briefly studied brazie jj for 6 months. One on one, you will lose to a brazie badly and every time if you practice another art. But if there are 2 or more people, the brazie's have problems. They too, are set up for tournie fighting of a different sort.
My suggestion aside from the previous ones
in a different post is to take what you
personally find useful from many arts.
Brock
come on, first I was a brown belt but that ain’t the point, the rules? no hand strikes to the head, that was our only rules, still did NOT make ANY diff. I am sick of trying to be nice, some things are just facts!!! again I ask ANYONE, do you REALY think you would be better off in a dojo or a boxing gym? REALY? forget about what is the “nice” thing to say, ask yourself the QUESTION!!! what do you REALY think??PEACE
I can’t resist. There are a lot of pearls of wisdom in this thread, but also a lot of “truisms” parrotted back without underlying support. Most fights do not go to the ground…but we’ve all heard that said so many times it’s become a self perpetuating myth. Even though that truism holds some weight in the ultimate fighting bouts there are serious rules and restrictions applied there too that limit the reality of these matches. For example, the toughest grappler in the world will eventually release his holds when he’s being bitten effectively and persistently and that seems to be the trend in anti-grappling street defense, ala Paul Vunak, etc…With respect to what works on the street, ask the average cop…someone who may engage in hand to hand combat every day. My jiu jitsu class has a lot of cops who use these techniques daily. They rely on strikes and basic throws to put some big criminals down and out. At least in my class the cops love and have learned to depend on palm strikes to the chin…forcing the perp to spit out pearly whites with red roots attached, and the tai-otoshi throw where the perp is pulled over the cops outstretched leg and the femur snapped like a stick…it may be excessive force, but I’m just repeating what I’ve heard. For perp control they rely on wrist and arm locks…all performed while standing…for effective pain compliance techniques. Someone once told me that the Japanese for jiu jitsu translates into a phrase containing the word “pain”…an expertly applied submission lock will make anyone a believer. Also, who really wants to get tied up in a grappling match on the concrete, especially when criminals often attack in numbers and carry weapons that neutralize grappling’s effectiveness? The safest bet would seem to be do the necessary damage to protect yourself and then clear the area. Also, am I the only who’s noticed that the most aggressive, strongest and fittest guy usually wins the fight…irrespective of the art? Something about “the race doesn’t always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that’s the surest way to bet”…may be the one truism that applies. I’ve got 15 years in the USMC and I’m just trying to keep it real. S/F
hetyey- given the choice- a gym or a dojo- give me… none. It is WHAT YOU APPLY!!! it is not the art! it could be the worlds greatest fighting technique, but if you dont grasp it, contemplate it, and apply it, you dont get it. and i prefer joint locks and holds to bare fisted brawls. you just dont look all to pretty to the sorority hotties with a big shiner and a fat lip, even if you won.
many a big frat boy has been in my face, and many has been in an armbar. no punches or kicks thrown. a good lock, and the guy cant do jack. no charges pressed, cuz no cosmetic damage was done. see what im gettin at? i have applied the joint lock techniques I LEARNED FROM A BOOK to the real world more than anything. if you lock someone down, you still have an oppurtunity to examine the situation- to see if his big drunk frat brother is charging, to see if the bouncer is on his way, etc. where as in squaring off, if you look to examine the situation for more than a split second (checking behind you for example) you leave yourself open to get pummeled.
and concerning boxing and martial arts- its all in the practitioner(sp?). i and a friend were in the combatants room at my school, working the bag and sparing, just for grins. and the boxing class came in and started warming up. and of course, one wanted to spar with me (being the bigger of the two “kirate boys” as he put it). we squared up, i swept him, he went down. then he got all mad cuz i wasnt following the rules. i said what rules. he got up, gut punched me and damn near killed me, but in doubling over on his fist, i had the oppurtunity to grab his arm, arm bar him, and lay on the floor with him in the hold. he was jawing six ways to Sunday, but couldnt get loose. see the example? its all about the person. boxing is good, martial arts are good, but it is all in the person applying the skills they have. like i would have boxed with the guy. are you kidding me? he prolly wouldhave knowcked my head clean off my shoulders! but he never got the chance…
I am taking kendo…I know u don’t use your body but it’s different from what u all are taking so I thought I would suggest it too.
If we’re going to state backgrounds - black belt in Judo, 2nd Kyu in Aikido, brown in Shotokan, just a white belt in kempo (studied it a long time but never tested), green belt in kung fu and similar rank in Cha-yon-Ryu. Managed to get lucky and go to a seminar with Royce Gracie once. I have studied Chinese sword, teach basic Japanese sword, but by far my favorite weapon is the jo-ken. I have found that every single art teaches me something useful. Eventually you will find something that suits your particular style, and that will be what you stick with. That does not necessarily mean it holds an advantage over someone else. There will always be someone who can kick your ass - I don’t care who you are. Those of you smarting off about your own styles have either never experienced anything else, are close minded, or likely both. Open yourself up to new experiences and, just like in the gym, you will grow. But who cares - talk all you want - Brock, and a few others here - obviously know what I’m talking about. The rest of you are sadly lacking in experience.
very impressive background. and I agree totally, each style has its pros and cons. what YOU learn as a student is what decides how good the style truly is to YOU.
If you’re gonna post, please have a point, hetyey. Why are you screaming a gym or a dojo? If you don’t feel a certain style fits you for the street, then don’t use it. Get your head out of your ass and stop arguing a moot point. If boxing and Braz. JJ works for you, then fine. If you want to grapple with one guy on the ground while six others stab you in the neck, arms, back, and ass, so be it. To Warren Peace, have taking the Marine Corps Martial Arts program become mandatory for everyone yet?
We all view the world through different filters and I doubt any views were changed. Also there isn’t really a good way to prove our points. I like the way my face looks. Heheh. Flower power yay.
Keago
If no one’s called it, I’ll stab him in the ass. You guys can all divvy the rest of him up.
Someone made a mention of carving ass on the training thread. Who knew it’d get taken literally?