Where Do You Find Faith?

[countingbeans]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Any and all concepts such as “rights” are human constructs. [/quote]

This is a dangerous, and false, little idea you have. The progressives will love you.

Rights are… simply instincts

Nor would their be dozens upon dozens of different kinds or religions and denominations.

This is an argument for religion, rather theism or spirituality in general, and you don’t even know it. Even though you use it to knock down the specific religion you don’t like today, you do so at the expense of promoting the idea in general.

The conversation starts at: Is there or is there not a God (gods)? All the rest of the religion v non’s argument goes on from there, but the whole thing hinges on that question.

If there is no god, then religion is just a manifestation of man’s weakness and desire for meaning. Which can and has been abused by power hungry tyrants.

If there is a god, than that god is omnipotent by definition, and therefore mankind cannot expect to correctly interpret god’s messages/ideas/ideals/whatever you want to call it, at any given time or in any given way. Mankind can’t even comprehend omnipotence on an appropriate level. Of course there will be different flavors of religion.

The key is to pull back to larger general scale and look to see the central themes in the differing religions… That will start to paint a certain picture.

Religion is a hypocritical ethical system that changes depending on the circumstances to suit some kind of ideological agenda or self interest.

You give human’s way too much credit. We are nothing. Specs of fart dust floating along the winds of a universe who’s expansive distance reduce us, and our home to nothing. A blip in time.

See: All of religious history, religious people in positions of power

You said infantile shit like this and then try and hold your debate tactic up above anyone? That is high comedy.

and today’s new “interpretation” of religion ("Irrelevant of the rest of your post, which I didn’t read because none of what you mentioned is mine to own, things change, ideas change, and idea that a modern Christian is anything but 100% correct in believing the whole sale slaughter of children might not be the best idea, based on things written in a book thousands of years ago, maybe not to be taken literally, is a waste of conversation ").

I’m not religious. Stop using my words to try and tear it down.

Hey, guys, let’s take this book as being literal till it suddenly doesn’t suit us anymore, cause word of God is absolute but can be interpreted any way you damn well please.

Who said this? Or you making shit up again?

“Kill all babies?” No, no, that’s meant to be symbolism for uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh…

One poster already mentioned AC cherry picking his argument, and you went right along without looking into yourself then?

[batman730]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Also, el oh el at the individuals calling atheists and those that think religion is bullshit as “idiots”. Cute how the moment we don’t agree with your fairy tale views, that we’re suddenly morons.
[/quote]

El oh el at calling someone else’ beliefs bullshit, and then criticizing them for calling you a moron.

[countingbeans]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’ve watched a fair number of religious debates on the you tubes… and in quite a few watched an atheists or agnostic wipe the floor with the religious debater.

Not a nary one of the Militants in this thread would make it past the opening statements of any of the theists, even the ones who haven’t mastered rhetoric. Which is pathetic considered the ridicule they toss towards believers. Entertaining to watch, but pathetic none the less. [/quote]

How’s the view up there?

Also, “nary” means “not a”, so you just said “not a” twice. I know you’re trying to seem smart but use words you’re familiar with, thanks.[/quote]

lmao… You should check your own grammar before trying to refute my argument with that shit.

Hilarious. Weren’t you just saying how amazing your debate skill were and your rebuttal is my grammar?

[countingbeans]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

You don’t need religion.

[/quote]

Who the fuck are you to tell other people what they need?[/quote]

I care for my fellow human being. I don’t want them to waste their life believing in sky fairies. I also don’t want them to make decisions based on false beliefs that may hurt them, others, or myself.[/quote]

Again, who crowned you the judge of all this?

[legendaryblaze]

[quote]batman730 wrote:

I don’t have a dog in this race, but this is a total logical fallacy.

“Doctrine” does not refer specifically to religious beliefs. It is simply a codified system of teachings or instructions regarding a given subject. If atheists don’t subscribe to any given doctrine, how is it possible that whenever and wherever the topic arises I here the same pat arguments, often verbatim, again and again and again?[/quote]

That’s because they are addressing the same specific topics? Did you expect them to give a different answer each time?

[quote]batman730 wrote:
When the mere topic of God/religion comes up there is an immediate knee jerk response of anger and contempt. AC, who is in my estimation a pretty bright cat, was caps lock shouting at Beans about “your God” and “your Bible” after Beans had expressly stated that he didn’t subscribe to any particular religion at all. If that isn’t an example of a passionate belief system distorting one’s views, I don’t know what is.[/quote]

It’s not a belief system though. How can it be? No one teaches atheism. There is no atheism doctrine or belief system. The whole point is you don’t believe in religions or deities or what have you. It doesn’t mean that the person who is atheist suddenly believes in absolutely nothing. Not believing in religion does not mean you don’t have an opinion.
I don’t smoke and I think smoking is retarded. Am i subscribing to a specific doctrine or belief system when I tell my friend he’s an idiot for smoking and why he’s an idiot for smoking? No.

[quote]batman730 wrote:
People do horrible shit to each other, period. They may do this horrible shit in the name of religion, politics, patriotism, capitalism, nationalism, socialism, and who has the better soccer team. It doesn’t matter. It’s not a reason, it’s an excuse. Mostly, people do horrible shit to each other when they see their “group” as being other and better than someone else’. [/quote]

No arguments there.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

If you don’t think many atheists have a strong tendency to see their group as better than, smarter than and generally superior to the “religious types” and their “fairy tale views”, I suggest you go back and read some of your own posts.
[/quote]

Does this lend less credence to their arguments? I don’t think a person that believes in Jesus Christ is an idiot, but I do believe they are deluded. If you explain to someone why dead lifting can be beneficial, but they won’t believe you “just because”, what do you think?

How would you approach someone that believed in Zeus or Thor? If they told you that a thunderstorm you were both watching meant Thor was mad and you had to offer a sacrifice, would you say “oh that makes sense”, or try to educate them? What would you think then?

[legendaryblaze]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

This is a dangerous, and false, little idea you have. The progressives will love you.

Rights are… simply instincts [/quote]

What? Might want to look up the definitions.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[…]

The key is to pull back to larger general scale and look to see the central themes in the differing religions… That will start to paint a certain picture. [/quote]

Yes, that people were trying to explain the world around them and so came up with stories/explanations.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

You give human’s way too much credit. We are nothing. Specs of fart dust floating along the winds of a universe who’s expansive distance reduce us, and our home to nothing. A blip in time. [/quote]

Careful, you might break an arm jerking yourself off like that.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

You said infantile shit like this and then try and hold your debate tactic up above anyone? That is high comedy. [/quote]

What is infantile about it? Do I really need to point out all the transgressions brought on by religion?

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Who said this? Or you making shit up again?[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’re being serious.

[countingbeans]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Careful, you might break an arm jerking yourself off like that.

What is infantile about it? [/quote]

Enjoy your life.

Look me up when you mature.

[countingbeans]

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

Some of us, myself included, find the hypocrisy to be unpalatable and the suspension of logic to be too far fetched.
[/quote]

I’m pretty sure that makes it bad, when it colors your perspective and allows individuals to make decisions based on fiction. Stem cell research, abortion, euthanasia, gay rights, etc.[/quote]

Actually the opposite is true. Being an atheist distorts your views on such things. As a reformed atheist I understand this better than most. The existential crisis that arose during the enlightenment directly resulted in the rejection of natural law precepts such as individual liberty, the sacredness of life and private property rights.[/quote]

No, it doesn’t, because being an atheist means you don’t believe in any sort of theism. There is no doctrine to subscribe to that distorts your views.

[/quote]

I don’t have a dog in this race, but this is a total logical fallacy.

“Doctrine” does not refer specifically to religious beliefs. It is simply a codified system of teachings or instructions regarding a given subject. If atheists don’t subscribe to any given doctrine, how is it possible that whenever and wherever the topic arises I here the same pat arguments, often verbatim, again and again and again?

When the mere topic of God/religion comes up there is an immediate knee jerk response of anger and contempt. AC, who is in my estimation a pretty bright cat, was caps lock shouting at Beans about “your God” and “your Bible” after Beans had expressly stated that he didn’t subscribe to any particular religion at all. If that isn’t an example of a passionate belief system distorting one’s views, I don’t know what is.

People do horrible shit to each other, period. They may do this horrible shit in the name of religion, politics, patriotism, capitalism, nationalism, socialism, and who has the better soccer team. It doesn’t matter. It’s not a reason, it’s an excuse. Mostly, people do horrible shit to each other when they see their “group” as being other and better than someone else’.

If you don’t think many atheists have a strong tendency to see their group as better than, smarter than and generally superior to the “religious types” and their “fairy tale views”, I suggest you go back and read some of your own posts.
[/quote]

I missed this in my ranting… Good post.

[anon50325502]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Also, el oh el at the individuals calling atheists and those that think religion is bullshit as “idiots”. Cute how the moment we don’t agree with your fairy tale views, that we’re suddenly morons.
[/quote]
Your memory must not be very good. Oh hypocrisy how I love thee.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/legendaryblaze#myForums/thread/6084825/6

[batman730]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

I don’t have a dog in this race, but this is a total logical fallacy.

“Doctrine” does not refer specifically to religious beliefs. It is simply a codified system of teachings or instructions regarding a given subject. If atheists don’t subscribe to any given doctrine, how is it possible that whenever and wherever the topic arises I here the same pat arguments, often verbatim, again and again and again?[/quote]

That’s because they are addressing the same specific topics? Did you expect them to give a different answer each time?

[quote]batman730 wrote:
When the mere topic of God/religion comes up there is an immediate knee jerk response of anger and contempt. AC, who is in my estimation a pretty bright cat, was caps lock shouting at Beans about “your God” and “your Bible” after Beans had expressly stated that he didn’t subscribe to any particular religion at all. If that isn’t an example of a passionate belief system distorting one’s views, I don’t know what is.[/quote]

It’s not a belief system though. How can it be? No one teaches atheism. There is no atheism doctrine or belief system. The whole point is you don’t believe in religions or deities or what have you. It doesn’t mean that the person who is atheist suddenly believes in absolutely nothing. Not believing in religion does not mean you don’t have an opinion.
I don’t smoke and I think smoking is retarded. Am i subscribing to a specific doctrine or belief system when I tell my friend he’s an idiot for smoking and why he’s an idiot for smoking? No.

[quote]batman730 wrote:
People do horrible shit to each other, period. They may do this horrible shit in the name of religion, politics, patriotism, capitalism, nationalism, socialism, and who has the better soccer team. It doesn’t matter. It’s not a reason, it’s an excuse. Mostly, people do horrible shit to each other when they see their “group” as being other and better than someone else’. [/quote]

No arguments there.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

If you don’t think many atheists have a strong tendency to see their group as better than, smarter than and generally superior to the “religious types” and their “fairy tale views”, I suggest you go back and read some of your own posts.
[/quote]

Does this lend less credence to their arguments? I don’t think a person that believes in Jesus Christ is an idiot, but I do believe they are deluded. If you explain to someone why dead lifting can be beneficial, but they won’t believe you “just because”, what do you think?

How would you approach someone that believed in Zeus or Thor? If they told you that a thunderstorm you were both watching meant Thor was mad and you had to offer a sacrifice, would you say “oh that makes sense”, or try to educate them? What would you think then?
[/quote]

I’d expect a different answer because when two different people who haven’t studied a centralized belief system find themselves in the same argument it is plausible that they would express the same ideas. However, it is very unlikely they would do so using the exact same words and phrases. The odds that 6 or more people would spontaneously choose the exact same wording are infinitesimal.

Atheism has it’s own unofficial Canon (God is not Great, God delusion etc). It’s students meet and fellowship in coffee shops and on university campuses all over the country. People seek out people with similar beliefs. It’s one of our most basic impulses. How do you suppose Classical religions got started?

If I came upon worshippers of Thor, or Zeus (or a people practicing tribal animism, or Tibetan Buddhism, or Shinto or whatever) I would ask them to tell me more about their beliefs. I would be curious how their religion and/or spirituality helps them in their daily life and what it means to them. I would seek to understand and appreciate the allegory of their faith and what it has to teach, even if it’s not for me. If they asked what I believed, I would share it with them respectfully.

I would not “educate them” by telling them that their prayer flags were meaningless bits of cloth, that the animals they hunt are not sacred and divine, that there were no spirits to honour or anything else of the sort. If I told the followers of Thor that the idea that the thunderstorm was the wrath of the Odinson was bullshit, I would not expect a very cordial reception.

[jjackkrash]

I lost a big stack of bunched and wadded panties. Has anyone seen them? I can’t find them anywhere.

[SexMachine]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Any and all concepts such as “rights” are human constructs.
[/quote]

You may be right about that. And if you are, it constitutes a major and fundamental problem doesn’t it? If right and wrong are simply “opinions” then ethics is really an abstraction isn’t it? Further, if life has no intrinsic value then why I or anyone else do what we or others consider “right?”

There is nothing objective about religion.

Again, you may be right. But you haven’t seem to shown any understanding of the existential and moral implications of such a thing.

If it were the case, you could not be subjective about it. Nor would their be dozens upon dozens of different kinds or religions and denominations.

No, that doesn’t logically follow. There is no logical reason why a “true” religion cannot exist alongside “untrue” religions.

Religion is a hypocritical ethical system that changes depending on the circumstances to suit some kind of ideological agenda or self interest.

That is very often the case yes. Is it always the case?

See: All of religious history, religious people in positions of power and today’s new “interpretation” of religion ("Irrelevant of the rest of your post, which I didn’t read

My post was a single paragraph and you didn’t bother to read it? Not much point continuing with someone who hasn’t shown me the courtesy of actually reading what I’ve written yet proceeds on a long winded diatribe nonetheless.

[chillain]

I’m one of those who’s constantly seeing examples of the “intelligent design” that the natural/biological world displays. From the molecular to the physiological to bird flocks migrating via sensory apparatus for magnetic fields. Etc.

So in that way, I’m constantly “finding” reminders of what grounds my personal views and faith.

[Tyler23]

BulknCut, since your thread got hijacked, if you’re still looking for input, here’s mine (or at least what I do). Not meaning to quote a movie here, but… always do the right thing. Sometimes you don’t, but you should always try.

For your situation, the right thing for you to do right now is take it easy. You are very young and if you do the wrong thing, you could end up impacting your ability to perform certain physical activities for the rest of your life. Don’t fuck around with that.

As for your major… shit, I changed mine my junior year and am very glad I did. Things change and your mind might be one of them. And that’s ok. So don’t stress about these things too much. Take it easy (physically) for now until you know you’re 100%…or close enough that you know you’re not going to blow a gasket on a squat attempt.

And if you follow that advice and try to always do the right thing, if something does go wrong (and it always does), at least you know you did what you thought was right.

[comus3]

I find faith in my confidence that I can take anything that happens to me and survive. One day this confidence will not match the result and that is the end. But until then I am alive.

[magick]

[quote]comus3 wrote:
I find faith in my confidence that I can take anything that happens to me and survive. One day this confidence will not match the result and that is the end. But until then I am alive. [/quote]

I wonder whether people who write things like this never actually faced death and/or a genuinely challenging situation (be it physical or mental), or are just actual true bad-asses.