Haha national kick a ginger day. When is this date?
I must mark it on my calendar…
[quote]elano wrote:
Where are all these people calling bbers weak? Anyone have a link to a site or article claiming this?[/quote]
Here’s some stuff from Poliquin:
And here he mentions curling with 35’s. It’s the second paragraph under the Ronnie Coleman pic halfway down:
Aren’t Jay and Flex considered weak compared to a Ronnie or Arnold?
One thing that may only be me, but in the late 80s, and the 90s, many photo shoots for the magazines, with guys with too much gel in the hair, with ripped denim shorts with suspenders but no shirt wearing work boots with a buddy next to them also with a fake expression may have made many people think BBers were all show.
There are still many great ways to photograph modern BBers and make them look insanely powerful, look at the Animal Pak ads.
I also think it may be natural for people to see the 70s BB look, (non-competition time) where they looked big, but smooth by current standards as being healthier and therefore they were stronger.
It may just be me, but some ripped, overly-vascular behemoth (someone like Branch Warren) just doesn’t look as strong as Franco Columbu for example.
Look it’s simple. Lets not over complicate things.
Powerlifters = Purpose is to lift ever greater weights.
Bodybuilders = Purpose to find what makes “YOUR” muscles respond and grow. The “Weight” of the weights handled are a distant second to the focus in your workout.
This is why an average person can see a visually muscular dude say finishing a set of biceps with a 25lb Db to bring it to complete failure and think " man for all that muscle he only lifts a 25lb db?"
This is followed by the said average person taking a heavier weight and doing the same exercise next to the bodybuilder and feeling like they fit right in.
Then they look at the powerlifter and see a loaded bar full of plates for deadlifts and watch the misconceptions and rumors start lol 
[quote]Nards wrote:
It may just be me, but some ripped, overly-vascular behemoth (someone like Branch Warren) just doesn’t look as strong as Franco Columbu for example.[/quote]
lol.
[quote]Nards wrote:
One thing that may only be me, but in the late 80s, and the 90s, many photo shoots for the magazines, with guys with too much gel in the hair, with ripped denim shorts with suspenders but no shirt wearing work boots with a buddy next to them also with a fake expression may have made many people think BBers were all show. There are still many great ways to photograph modern BBers and make them look insanely powerful, look at the Animal Pak ads.
I also think it may be natural for people to see the 70s BB look, (non-competition time) where they looked big, but smooth by current standards as being healthier and therefore they were stronger.
It may just be me, but some ripped, overly-vascular behemoth (someone like Branch Warren) just doesn’t look as strong as Franco Columbu for example.[/quote]
??
People really think like this?
You see Branch Warren and the thought in your head is, “he looks weaker than some bodybuilder from over 40 years ago”???
“overly vascular”?
Really?
[quote]drewh wrote:
Aren’t Jay and Flex considered weak compared to a Ronnie or Arnold?[/quote]
By whom?
Most of us aren’t trying to pick apart who is stronger than who because it doesn’t fucking matter.
[quote]DJS wrote:
I’m pretty sure this started with bodybuilding mags shockingly… When I was a kid and I read all the mags, they never ever stressed progression. It was always stressed that the wieght on the bar didn’t matter. What mattered was straight sets, perfect form, slow reps, hold the stretch, squeeze the muscle hard at the contraction. Basically… if you get a burn and a pump your doing it right. They never said anything like "If you do the same weight… session after session, week after week, month after month, you won’t grow. You get a little stronger but progression is very slow when you train like that. So after a while you switch to the next program they give you. Which is all the same as above with different exercises and/or order.
It started like that and then was taken way too far buy certain authors. Authors are under pressure to come up with something new everytime they come out with an article. It’s like a huge game of telephone. The years go by and there is so much BS intertwined with common knowledge on training its shocking.[/quote]
I have muscle mags going all of the way back to 1987 and I never got that impression from them. I ALWAYS understood that the goal was to get stronger. I wasn’t even aware people actually thought you got muscles that big by NOT getting stronger or NOT gaining a hell of a lot of muscular body weight.
You would have to have grown up around NO athletes at all (especially no football players) to think something like that as well as have no basic understanding of how muscles get bigger and stronger to start with.
I have also seen the concept of pyramiding in mags that old along with the fact that no big guy I ever saw in the gym used the same weight for every set and every exercise. They largely trained like powerlifters only with more sets and reps.
If people were really missing the basics like that, their first stop should have been a biology book.
relative strength … X is stronger than me but someone is stronger than X, there fore X is weak COMPARED TO someone stronger than him …
To say someone is weak without any standard is like an Inuit telling me it’s warm outside (I live in Massachusetts and it was 22 degrees F coming into work today) … it’s all relative without a standard
Here are some Poliquin quotes for the lazy
I think it’s just the visual difference. People will look at a bodybuilder and at first sight, “oh he must be really strong” Thier assumption would be correct. Then They get thier first taste of a powerlifter, a guy who resembles thier beer guzzling uncle (I said resembles, not looks exactly like) and they say, holy crap, if that guy can bench 600 I bet that huge guy I saw the other day can bench 800, after all he has so much bigger muscles. Then through asking around at the gym, or sking the guy himself what he can bench and the guy says, 400, the person obviously gets confused.
Lets not forget, most of the population hasn’t had the same exposure to this stuff as many of us have. If it’s new to them there is going to be a disconnect while looking at both and looking at the weight both of them can move for a heavy single. Thier mind is going to feel betrayed that the more muscular guy is weaker and they may think all those extra muscles obviously aren’t for moving heavy weight so they must be useless.
Most people won’t make the connection that a 400 lb bench IS huge, especially when the BB guy might never train for a max rep and if he does, it’s a very small percentage of his focus, whereas a PL guy would essentially have it be 1/3 of his primary focus.
So while it is true that pound for pound, a PL will have higher singles. They also train specifically for that, a bodybuilder trains, for size and shape, and as Prof X said, you simply cannot get that big and muscular without gaining a LOT of strength. With the exception of synthol LOL.
We all know that the main difference is the PL guys are training thier nueral pathways to fire more muscles fibers on a single rep and that is why they can move heavy singles. It’s not something magical happening. The BB’ers nueral pathways are probably conditioned to push heavy weights in a 4-8 rep range, thus being a little weaker on a single attempt, But they may even have a better 75%max rep count than a PL’er.
V
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Here are some Poliquin quotes for the lazy
[/quote]
Like I’ve said before, it amazes me he gets a pass like he does on the crap he says. Which 3 Olympia competitors can’t bench 315lbs?
Newbs eat that shit up like crazy and then discussion forums get overrun by 19 year olds who actually think a guy with 20+" arms can’t curl 35lbs dumbbells.
I guess that explains all of the “I train MMA and can kick the ass of 250lb bodybuilders” crap.
I train for powerlifting.
I don’t think bodybuilders are weak. This whole thing is stupid, most bodybuilders are already stronger than any of the kids who believe this shit will ever be.
My guess is some people watching old World Strongest Man reruns from the 80s and seeing bodybuilders getting beaten by strongman competitors who gear their training more towards the events. Anybody with a working brain knows the bodybuilders are still strong, but a lot of times people only see a loss equalling being weak.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Here are some Poliquin quotes for the lazy
[/quote]
I feel dumber for having read those quotes…
Jesus Christ, this guy gets paid for this? I’m in the wrong field.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Here are some Poliquin quotes for the lazy
[/quote]
I feel dumber for having read those quotes…
Jesus Christ, this guy gets paid for this? I’m in the wrong field.[/quote]
The sad part is that there are guys who think they feel smarter after reading quotes like these.
Between Poliquin, Shugart, and Waterbury they have never named any names when making these baseless comments or accusations. Drop the names of the Mr. O contestants that can’t bench a measly 315 (by pro BB standards) for reps. Which one can only curl 35lbs? They know if they did they’d be refuted by video evidence in all cases.
I would openly laugh in anyone’s face that said that shit to me…
I can’t fathom actually believing that.
I give the guy the benefit of the doubt that he is just tryiong to sell articles by busting balls and talking shit, but to anyone gullible enough to believe that with more than 6 months under the bar…
Some people are hard wired for survival, some aren’t.
I wonder if this myth is perpetuated these days with what seems to be an increase in abz-boyz who weigh in at all of 140# who say they’re “bodybuilders”. ?
My goal? I want to be as small and weak as Branch Warren.
There. I said it…
The first link when typing “bodybuilders are weak” into google is a thread on bb.com.
It is just laughable, but after a certain point there are so many people who have convinced themselves that HYOOGE guys can barely bench 225 that it becomes a little frightening.