^^^ hahahaha ^^^
oh hey dudes here’s another question…i can’t find any information on the internet about the age at which some notable lifters start using pharmaceuticals. some of my favorites are jim wendler, matt kroczaleski, mike o’hearn, mariusz pudzianowski, dave tate (actually most elitefts guys)…anyone from westside…i just wonder at what age these guys starting using you know?
does anyone know anything about that???
[quote]JLederach wrote:
oh hey dudes here’s another question…i can’t find any information on the internet about the age at which some notable lifters start using pharmaceuticals. some of my favorites are jim wendler, matt kroczaleski, mike o’hearn, mariusz pudzianowski, dave tate (actually most elitefts guys)…anyone from westside…i just wonder at what age these guys starting using you know?
does anyone know anything about that???[/quote]
Remember you’re essentially asking people to admit to using substances which can lead to arrest an possibly imprisonment (I’m in the UK and our Laws on AAS are very different). Dave Tate did write an article which I think was called something like ‘playing your ace card’.
I believe most ‘notable’ lifters have at least a genetic predisposition towards gaining strength so what they do and when they do it really makes no difference to you or me.
The main things to consider are: many teenagers do use and abuse steroids. Someone on this site mentioned his college football team mates using AAS as young as 14, this doesn’t make it a good idea or mean you should; the youngest age AAS use is recommended (on this site) is 21; understand as much about AAS as possible before you start putting them in your body; many people use AAS and have no real understanding about what they’re doing, they are stupid and just because they suffer no obvious or noticeable consequences does not mean they are ‘getting away with it’; many, many people are dishonest about their AAS use for a myriad of reasons.
Search this site for an article by Doug Jackson called ‘getting schooled westside’ and Louie Simmons does mention AAS use but thats about as much as I’ve (personally) heard disclosed by him and anyone at West side.
good call man ill check that out for sure
I even find that in the UK, people whom I know and trust are secretive about their AAS use. When asking people about their AAS use just remember the quote from House MD “everybody lies”…
well they’re secretive with good reason. everyone is no ignorant about it all and have been brainwashed into thinking it’s the ultimate evil in athletics. has anyone here seen bigger stronger faster? what an amazing film
I watched bits of it on Youtube but I haven’t seen the whole thing. I found it very interesting though.
@JLederach - Now THIS is the kind of topic I love.
So, do you want reality or some politically correct bulls–t? I’ll give it to you straight.
I lifted on an international level when I was younger, did a stint at the Olympic Training Center and won some National/International Junior Powerlifting Contests to boot. I was a “natural” and at that time I could get away with not using. However, the guys who had the chemical advantage soon came up and passed me by like I was standing still.
I’ve seen a lot of guys who were second rate lifters rise to “stardom” after juicing for just a few years. It always made me laugh the people who would normally shout “cheater” from the rooftops didn’t seem to give a s–t at the obviousness of the situation. They want their heroes to worship. Jesse Marunde was a 3rd place lifter at best (I would know, I was the guy beating him…) yet look at what he accomplished after discovering the magic of AAS. My hat’s off to the guy.
I know for a fact that Tate started when he was in his mid teens. Fitness guys like O’Hearn and Boeving did the same and were professional models in their early 20’s. Guys with an “in” to the AAS scene do some amazing lifting, like Eric Lilliebridge totaling 2000+ RAW as a teenager, and the list goes on and on… Hell, all of the old time greats started the first day they stepped foot in the gym. John Kuc and Jim Williams (who was my neighbor growing up) used boatloads of Dianabol WHICH THEY KEPT IN A CANDY DISH on a table at the Scranton YMCA at the time (1960-70’s). Arnold introduced Primobolan to the USA while in his teens, getting it from his “trainer” in Austria and we know how his career turned out. He had an early edge and had the time to build a career while he was still young and had the time and energy to do so.
I’ve talked to a LOT of guys about this, and literally ALL of our heroes got that way by starting young and maximizing their genetic potential while the getting was good. MOST of the guys we know and love started young and peaked in their late 20’s - early 30’s. That doesn’t happen naturally. “Natural” lifters peak in their late 30-'s to 40’s for the most part, and they peak at a MUCH lower level than the users.
I honestly believe any serious athlete should start as soon as possible and learn to cycle correctly and beat the tests if they ever want to be successful on the platform. To hell with “cheating” and all that nonsense. There is no good or bad, no wrong or right. Do what you want and achieve what you want.
You can’t lift a barbell with one hand and hold a crucifix in the other. Pick a side.
I’ve been a card-carrying “drug free” idiot for 15+ years and in the end it never amounted to s–t. I wasted a good portion of my time jousting at windmills. Learn from my mistakes.
Honestly, your numbers are good and you’ve got some potential, so go for it. I wouldn’t use Equipoise for your first cycle though, a cycle of pure test is usually the best way to go for first timers. Do your research and you’ll do fine.
Great post twiceborn! I used to do martial arts training with a guy who is about 60 now, he trained during the 70’s and watched BBer’s like berthill Fox train and said he personally saw him swallow dianabol by the handful whilst he was training. This guy’s take on drug use was the same as yours-if you want to make a career out of competing that is.
hahaha twiceborn that was easily one of the most informative, realistic, and helpful posts ive seen on this site. thanks a lot man i really appreciate the help and i think you’re right about everything.
[quote]twiceborn wrote:
@JLederach - Now THIS is the kind of topic I love.
So, do you want reality or some politically correct bulls–t? I’ll give it to you straight.
I lifted on an international level when I was younger, did a stint at the Olympic Training Center and won some National/International Junior Powerlifting Contests to boot. I was a “natural” and at that time I could get away with not using. However, the guys who had the chemical advantage soon came up and passed me by like I was standing still.
I’ve seen a lot of guys who were second rate lifters rise to “stardom” after juicing for just a few years. It always made me laugh the people who would normally shout “cheater” from the rooftops didn’t seem to give a s–t at the obviousness of the situation. They want their heroes to worship. Jesse Marunde was a 3rd place lifter at best (I would know, I was the guy beating him…) yet look at what he accomplished after discovering the magic of AAS. My hat’s off to the guy.
I know for a fact that Tate started when he was in his mid teens. Fitness guys like O’Hearn and Boeving did the same and were professional models in their early 20’s. Guys with an “in” to the AAS scene do some amazing lifting, like Eric Lilliebridge totaling 2000+ RAW as a teenager, and the list goes on and on… Hell, all of the old time greats started the first day they stepped foot in the gym. John Kuc and Jim Williams (who was my neighbor growing up) used boatloads of Dianabol WHICH THEY KEPT IN A CANDY DISH on a table at the Scranton YMCA at the time (1960-70’s). Arnold introduced Primobolan to the USA while in his teens, getting it from his “trainer” in Austria and we know how his career turned out. He had an early edge and had the time to build a career while he was still young and had the time and energy to do so.
I’ve talked to a LOT of guys about this, and literally ALL of our heroes got that way by starting young and maximizing their genetic potential while the getting was good. MOST of the guys we know and love started young and peaked in their late 20’s - early 30’s. That doesn’t happen naturally. “Natural” lifters peak in their late 30-'s to 40’s for the most part, and they peak at a MUCH lower level than the users.
I honestly believe any serious athlete should start as soon as possible and learn to cycle correctly and beat the tests if they ever want to be successful on the platform. To hell with “cheating” and all that nonsense. There is no good or bad, no wrong or right. Do what you want and achieve what you want.
You can’t lift a barbell with one hand and hold a crucifix in the other. Pick a side.
I’ve been a card-carrying “drug free” idiot for 15+ years and in the end it never amounted to s–t. I wasted a good portion of my time jousting at windmills. Learn from my mistakes.
Honestly, your numbers are good and you’ve got some potential, so go for it. I wouldn’t use Equipoise for your first cycle though, a cycle of pure test is usually the best way to go for first timers. Do your research and you’ll do fine.
[/quote]
Fair points made but what you left out of this is just as important as the message youre sending.
That thousands of teenagers have done what you alledge Tate, O’Hearn, Marunde, Arnold to have done but have not achieved ANY level of notoriety, but have achieved health problems and have wasted too much time chasing a pipe dream that never even had a CHANCE of being fulfilled.
Theres two sides to this coin. Those with the genetics to be great have a reason to take the risk of starting young. The other 99.99% of people shouldnt even think of taking that risk.
Okay here’s another question which i know is absurd, so lets try not to be smart ass know it alls here if it offends you somehow, but 10 weeks of tren acetate is available to me as well…now keep in mind ive never taken a steroid before in my life, and it’s probably retarded to start with tren, but what about just a small dose??
[quote]JLederach wrote:
Okay here’s another question which i know is absurd, so lets try not to be smart ass know it alls here if it offends you somehow, but 10 weeks of tren acetate is available to me as well…now keep in mind ive never taken a steroid before in my life, and it’s probably retarded to start with tren, but what about just a small dose?? [/quote]
No.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
(I’m in the UK and our Laws on AAS are very different).
[/quote]
How so? Are they stricter or more lenient? Just curious…
[quote]JLederach wrote:
well they’re secretive with good reason. everyone is no ignorant about it all and have been brainwashed into thinking it’s the ultimate evil in athletics. has anyone here seen bigger stronger faster? what an amazing film[/quote]
I have. Brilliant movie. It made me realise that most of the stuff I (and the general public) knew about AAS is from people who hate them or bash them. Not many realise that there are two side to the story.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
[quote]JLederach wrote:
Okay here’s another question which i know is absurd, so lets try not to be smart ass know it alls here if it offends you somehow, but 10 weeks of tren acetate is available to me as well…now keep in mind ive never taken a steroid before in my life, and it’s probably retarded to start with tren, but what about just a small dose?? [/quote]
No.[/quote]
Haha, thats what I used to think too! How about just a teeny tiny bit?? 
@buddaboy, may I respectfully ask why you say NO?? Im not trying to be obnoxious or anything. I just wanna learn…
[quote]lumbahjack wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
(I’m in the UK and our Laws on AAS are very different).
[/quote]
How so? Are they stricter or more lenient? Just curious…[/quote]
It is legal to import AAS for personal use, and consequently legal to posses AAS and to use it yourself. It is class C I’m pretty sure.
[quote]lumbahjack wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
[quote]JLederach wrote:
Okay here’s another question which i know is absurd, so lets try not to be smart ass know it alls here if it offends you somehow, but 10 weeks of tren acetate is available to me as well…now keep in mind ive never taken a steroid before in my life, and it’s probably retarded to start with tren, but what about just a small dose?? [/quote]
No.[/quote]
Haha, thats what I used to think too! How about just a teeny tiny bit??
@buddaboy, may I respectfully ask why you say NO?? Im not trying to be obnoxious or anything. I just wanna learn…[/quote]
Several reasons and they are all in the OP’s best interests: tren Ace isn’t an ideal choice for a first cycle; it shouldn’t be used on its own; no mention of PCT; define a ‘little bit’? a little bit of tren is 25 mg a day to me, to my friend it was 50 mg-75 mg!; no mention of AI on hand (I’m sure tren can cause progesterone induced gyno but don’t quote me on that).
Have a read of the stickies guys there’s loads of information in there…