I did the 5am thing for a while and it sucked. I find the best time is during my lunch hour after I have 2-3 meals in me.
I’m running stairs in the office right now. afterwards i’m going to change all the water bottles at the water fountains, as I change them I will deadlift them off the floor, curl push press then rip off then reverse curls. Then I go back to my seat and ab flex for 3 hours, walk on my toes to the car for lunch. Before I get in and when I get out the car I try to lift the bumper to build my quads.
I just need a chest exercise, popping out for pushups in the middle of a meeting just doesn’t work.
Thanks Bill.I think I would like to follow your diet.Actually what I am doing now is also loading carb before workout and having shake both during and after the workout.usually for the squat day, I will have 6 slices of whole wheat bread(120g carb) and 1.5scoop whey as pre-workout meal, an hour and half before working out. Is it too much for a single meal? Do you think I should wait longer before workout or even it into two small meals?
Another thing is, I saw your post workout meal is protein and fat which makes me confused. Isn’t it always supposed to be fast digesting protein + simple carb and avoiding fats?
Speaking of the importance of meals, breakfast,pre-worktout and post workout are the top 3, right?
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
hhxk18 wrote:
Thank you very mcuh, Bill. I really appreciate your advice. Well, I dont have so many different kinds of powder… So,I think equivalently you are suggesting:
meal 1: supplements + casein
meal 2: protein + carb (I dont know what’s in Surge Recovery…never tried that)
meal 3(prework out): protein + carb
meal 4:protein + carb ?what is Anaconda for?
and post work out.
Am I right?
Also, when you are cutting,do you still get strength increased? Making new PR?
I am asking this because during my last cutting phase I did not improve a single pound on my lifting. It is so frustrating.
I’m keeping on schedule with my program which has everything slowly increasing. In terms of 1RM that hasn’t been measured but various lifts have, slightly, been the best for that number of reps.
The supplements mentioned are pretty specialized and can’t be broken down into just looking at protein and carbs. From the standpoint of doing that, which is a valid thing to want to do, a principal finding – which I didn’t make but was found in the development of these products – is that the old idea that post-workout is most important is not right.
Having the muscles well loaded with carbs and amino acids – which can be done though less well with just plain carbs and protein – and then well supplied during the workout too is better.
So if breaking it down to more commonly available ingredients this would mean being well carb loaded before the workout, though not in a way that has your stomach slowing things by being heavy with food that takes a long time to empty, and continuing to fuel the workout with carbs and aminos (or protein, faster acting the better) during the workout.
In Christian Thibaudeau’s forum there’s some discussion of this.[/quote]
[quote]dankid wrote:
stop reading bodybuilding.com[/quote]
Lol, would u mind telling me why is that?
[quote]Ace Rimmer wrote:
I know guys who train at like 6/7am,but Jesus,at 8am I can barely scrape together my breakfast whilst trying to remember not to put the milk in the cupboard and the cereal in the fridge AGAIN.[/quote]
Funniest shit i ever did hear. I can definately relate to that. Numerous occassions ive done that, but usually the bread. 
[quote]hhxk18 wrote:
namor wrote:
I wake up at 5.30am and am at the gym at 6.30am, finish at the gym at 8am and am at work by 9am.
It took a lot of getting used to but if you want to be consistent you do what you have to do.
Peri-workout nutrition makes all the difference as well in getting you primed that early in the morning.
yep one of my concern is, if I get up and go to gym an hour later, how am I supposed to eat during this hour? breakfast + pre-workout meal? [/quote]
My present protocol for keeping myself awake in the morning is this:
Wake up 5.30am
1 cup oats
berries
2 scoops Whey Protein Isolate
A shitload of water
6am
200mg caffeine
3 Receptormax tablets
Arrive at gym at 6.30am and during the workout drink a litre of water containing 60grams powerade and 40grams BCAA
8.30am post workout
45 grams powerade
2 scoops Whey Protein Isolate (48grams protein)
10 grams creatine
5 grams leucine
10 grams glycine
[quote]hhxk18 wrote:
Thanks Bill.I think I would like to follow your diet.Actually what I am doing now is also loading carb before workout and having shake both during and after the workout.usually for the squat day, I will have 6 slices of whole wheat bread(120g carb) and 1.5scoop whey as pre-workout meal, an hour and half before working out. Is it too much for a single meal? Do you think I should wait longer before workout or even it into two small meals? [/quote]
It’s not an unreasonable total amount but 120 g of carbs is a fair bit at one time. You could think of each 3 slices as being comparable to 2 scoops of Surge Recovery for amount of carbs and figure from there.
I don’t know about the rate of delivery. There are studies showing it to be a fast carb, but I’ve certainly never gotten a sugar rush from bread, and there have been times in which like you I’ve had many slices at the same time.
[quote]Another thing is, I saw your post workout meal is protein and fat which makes me confused. Isn’t it always supposed to be fast digesting protein + simple carb and avoiding fats?
Speaking of the importance of meals, breakfast,pre-worktout and post workout are the top 3, right?[/quote]
Actually what I had written was that I was thinking of adding a tablespoon of olive oil to the postworkout protein drink. I haven’t done so. The reason I might is that my overall fat intake for the day is lower right now than I think it should be, though there’s no sign at the moment of that being a problem. But in the longer run it might reduce testosterone production.
While fat is widely considered to slow stomach emptying, I’m not at all sure this is the case, at least in my personal situation, with protein drinks. I can tell when my stomach has a good bit of fluid in it and when it does not, and it doesn’t seem to me that emptying is slow when oil is added to a protein shake.
At any rate where this general approach differs from what had been standard is that there is now no rush to provide nutrients postworkout – they were provided before and during.
I don’t recall the bodybuilding author who years ago wrote “Don’t eat for what you just did: eat for what you are about to do” but it was good advice. To a large extent that was addressed with the Double Surge protocol presented a while back – use Surge both before and after the workout – but it still relied on a catch-up approach for post-workout.
Now, instead of needing to play catch-up, the job is fully done by the pre and during nutrition. So what is done post workout is not critical.
[quote]hhxk18 wrote:
Recently I read an article on bodybuilding.com [/quote]
Was it written in crayon?
[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
josh86 wrote:
quiksilver6 wrote:
bwhitwell wrote:
Some people are morning people and some are evening people. I wake up before the alarm clock goes off almost everyday between 4:30 and 5:00 am and usually pass out by 10:00 pm, wife is complete opposite. Thrive on 6-7 hrs sleep a night. Wake up and ready to train within 30 min after coffee on an empty stomach.
yeah you look like u lift on an empty stomach
Not sure if you’re trying to be a dick, it sure sounds like it though…and you aren’t shit yourself at a nice and skinny 5’10" 170.
easy tough guy. wasn’t trying to be a dick. he’s impressively lean for how much muscle he has. as for you, maybe you should have waited to see if i was “being a dick,” before you started throwing stones.[/quote]
No man, I appreciate the constructive criticism, I have been training at home for the last 15 yrs or so and need the advice of others. I am changing things up. Thanks.
[quote]Ace Rimmer wrote:
hhxk18 wrote:
Recently I read an article on bodybuilding.com
Was it written in crayon?
[/quote]
an riten lyk a fckn iliterette prsn bcos it svs lods o tme
[quote]quiksilver6 wrote:
josh86 wrote:
quiksilver6 wrote:
bwhitwell wrote:
Some people are morning people and some are evening people. I wake up before the alarm clock goes off almost everyday between 4:30 and 5:00 am and usually pass out by 10:00 pm, wife is complete opposite. Thrive on 6-7 hrs sleep a night. Wake up and ready to train within 30 min after coffee on an empty stomach.
yeah you look like u lift on an empty stomach
Not sure if you’re trying to be a dick, it sure sounds like it though…and you aren’t shit yourself at a nice and skinny 5’10" 170.
easy tough guy. wasn’t trying to be a dick. he’s impressively lean for how much muscle he has. as for you, maybe you should have waited to see if i was “being a dick,” before you started throwing stones.[/quote]
I don’t know about that, my first instinct was to bitch slap you too. Maybe you’re coming across as a dick even if you don’t intend to(in that post)?
I train in the morning because that’s when I can be consistent. I would rather do it in the evening but that doesn’t really matter.
I train usually at 5-7 pm:
30 min before workout: 2 Scoops Whey, A glass of some type of 100% Juice.
Peri: 2 Scoops Whey + a N0 Product.
Post: @ Scoops Whey + Creatine.
[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
quiksilver6 wrote:
josh86 wrote:
quiksilver6 wrote:
bwhitwell wrote:
Some people are morning people and some are evening people. I wake up before the alarm clock goes off almost everyday between 4:30 and 5:00 am and usually pass out by 10:00 pm, wife is complete opposite. Thrive on 6-7 hrs sleep a night. Wake up and ready to train within 30 min after coffee on an empty stomach.
yeah you look like u lift on an empty stomach
Not sure if you’re trying to be a dick, it sure sounds like it though…and you aren’t shit yourself at a nice and skinny 5’10" 170.
easy tough guy. wasn’t trying to be a dick. he’s impressively lean for how much muscle he has. as for you, maybe you should have waited to see if i was “being a dick,” before you started throwing stones.
No man, I appreciate the constructive criticism, I have been training at home for the last 15 yrs or so and need the advice of others. I am changing things up. Thanks.[/quote]
BW, you have a very impressive physique, regardless of age. Whatever you’ve been doing, it’s working.
I train at 4:30 pm right after work. I work at 7am so earlier that that ain’t gunna happen.
yeah it sounds reasonable. BTW, how much fat do you think for daily calorie break down? 20%?30%? Some says fat intake should be minimized on high-carb day while others said daily calorie intake should be at least 20% from fat.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
hhxk18 wrote:
Thanks Bill.I think I would like to follow your diet.Actually what I am doing now is also loading carb before workout and having shake both during and after the workout.usually for the squat day, I will have 6 slices of whole wheat bread(120g carb) and 1.5scoop whey as pre-workout meal, an hour and half before working out. Is it too much for a single meal? Do you think I should wait longer before workout or even it into two small meals?
It’s not an unreasonable total amount but 120 g of carbs is a fair bit at one time. You could think of each 3 slices as being comparable to 2 scoops of Surge Recovery for amount of carbs and figure from there.
I don’t know about the rate of delivery. There are studies showing it to be a fast carb, but I’ve certainly never gotten a sugar rush from bread, and there have been times in which like you I’ve had many slices at the same time.
Another thing is, I saw your post workout meal is protein and fat which makes me confused. Isn’t it always supposed to be fast digesting protein + simple carb and avoiding fats?
Speaking of the importance of meals, breakfast,pre-worktout and post workout are the top 3, right?
Actually what I had written was that I was thinking of adding a tablespoon of olive oil to the postworkout protein drink. I haven’t done so. The reason I might is that my overall fat intake for the day is lower right now than I think it should be, though there’s no sign at the moment of that being a problem. But in the longer run it might reduce testosterone production.
While fat is widely considered to slow stomach emptying, I’m not at all sure this is the case, at least in my personal situation, with protein drinks. I can tell when my stomach has a good bit of fluid in it and when it does not, and it doesn’t seem to me that emptying is slow when oil is added to a protein shake.
At any rate where this general approach differs from what had been standard is that there is now no rush to provide nutrients postworkout – they were provided before and during.
I don’t recall the bodybuilding author who years ago wrote “Don’t eat for what you just did: eat for what you are about to do” but it was good advice. To a large extent that was addressed with the Double Surge protocol presented a while back – use Surge both before and after the workout – but it still relied on a catch-up approach for post-workout.
Now, instead of needing to play catch-up, the job is fully done by the pre and during nutrition. So what is done post workout is not critical.
[/quote]
[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
quiksilver6 wrote:
josh86 wrote:
quiksilver6 wrote:
bwhitwell wrote:
Some people are morning people and some are evening people. I wake up before the alarm clock goes off almost everyday between 4:30 and 5:00 am and usually pass out by 10:00 pm, wife is complete opposite. Thrive on 6-7 hrs sleep a night. Wake up and ready to train within 30 min after coffee on an empty stomach.
yeah you look like u lift on an empty stomach
Not sure if you’re trying to be a dick, it sure sounds like it though…and you aren’t shit yourself at a nice and skinny 5’10" 170.
easy tough guy. wasn’t trying to be a dick. he’s impressively lean for how much muscle he has. as for you, maybe you should have waited to see if i was “being a dick,” before you started throwing stones.
No man, I appreciate the constructive criticism, I have been training at home for the last 15 yrs or so and need the advice of others. I am changing things up. Thanks.[/quote]
but seriously tho, i’m starving when i wake up in the morning, and i’m starving when i get out of the gym lol. you must be ready to eat someone by the time you’re done lifting haha. you say you lift at home, do you just get down to business with a meal? or still go with a shake directly after for faster protien delivery?
I normally work out 5:30 PM after work, but when I take a day off, I’ll work out at 8-9AM. I haven’t noticed any difference whatsoever between the two.
I should wait 30 minutes before seeing if my post shows up apparently. Sheesh!
[quote]jo3 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
I work out in the morning, which as personal opinion I think works together best with nutrition, but if a person’s schedule doesn’t allow this that hardly means all is lost. Nothing like it.
In my case my present schedule, which mostly derives from what Christian Thibaudeau has been doing and advocating, is this:
…
This is the easiest time I’ve ever had with cutting while training hard at the same time. Ordinarily training hard, by which I mean 2 hours most or all days of the week, has me requiring more food than is compatible with cutting rapidly.
Bill,
Has your pre-workout morning nutrition always been in the form of powders? I just can’t see that giving me enough energy to get in a productive workout. Maybe the combination of the Surge Workout Fuel and Power Drive makes a difference?[/quote]
By the way, today I changed it in a way that shortened things quite a bit, taking about 1.5 hours out of it, as I had to save time, whereas before deliberately I was wanting to allow some time in the morning before the workout to care of various things. I think it’s also likely better:
On arising: 5 g L-Leucine and roughly 15 grams of casein hydrolysate. Also 1 serving Superfood but that has nothing to do with the overall protocol, it’s just a convenient time to take it.
20 minutes after that: 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 2 scoops whey and 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel. (Also 1 scoop Power Drive but that is totally optional and is for a different reason.)
This first part is a hyperamino pulsing protocol. It can only be done properly when blood amino acid levels are low, which apparently causes the pulse to be far more effective.
40 minutes after that: Start of workout, with two scoops Anaconda plus 1 scoop Surge Recovery. Nothing magic about the 40 minute figure, it’s simply what it was. I’m sure 30 minutes or 50 minutes would have worked well too.
Each 30 minutes into the workout: an amount of drink containing 1 scoop Surge Recovery.
End of workout: 2 scoops Grow! whey.
As this is faster delivered than the Low Carb Metabolic Drive, I can then do another amino pulsing protocol say 3 hours later, which is the plan for today. Alternately one could have a regular meal at this time.
Quicker and probably better than previously posted. Again, it’s just a personal method, not an official protocol.
i much rather work out in the morning but it will be difficult since ill have class early noon so i work out at 4pm.
My lifting schedule varies in the summer, but I like lifting better in the evening.