I think it is imporatant that you lift the weight with the hips, not the back. Sometimes then it is good to start deads deeper, and then bring the hips up higher as you add weight just to feel that the hips are doing the work.
^^ trying to figure out why this video was posted?
the first pull of the clean is performed differently than a deadlift.
[quote]millercraig222 wrote:
^^ trying to figure out why this video was posted?
[/quote]
Because it’s awesome
[quote]drewc64 wrote:
[quote]millercraig222 wrote:
^^ trying to figure out why this video was posted?
[/quote]
Because it’s awesome[/quote]
good enough
[quote]millercraig222 wrote:
[quote]drewc64 wrote:
[quote]millercraig222 wrote:
^^ trying to figure out why this video was posted?
[/quote]
Because it’s awesome[/quote]
good enough[/quote]
Yea, I guess I was looking for an excuse. One of the first responses to the thread was that to literally squat the weight up, you would have to run into your knees. This is not technically true. The center of mass of the bar plus the lifter does have to be behind the front of the knee, to remain above a stable base, but the bar itself (only being part of the mass of the system) can clear the knees. There is nothing about “squatting” the weight up versus some other form that changes those rules.
Pretty sure ‘leg drive’ on the deadlift is an erroneous term. Leg drive could mean glute and hip activation through torsion off the floor, but it’s physically impossible to drive the weight off the floor with your legs considering the bar would be in front of your base of support inferring it’s a conventional deadlift.
[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
but it’s physically impossible to drive the weight off the floor with your legs considering the bar would be in front of your base of support inferring it’s a conventional deadlift. [/quote]
Really, so hold your arms straight out in front of you. Now squat down and come up. But your hands were in front of your base of support.
Yes there is torque on different muscles, but they are in static equilibrium, and the line of application of the net linear force is within your base of support.
Doing a leg press starting with your knees on your chest feels an awful lot like a dead lift
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
[quote]strongmanvinny wrote:
but it’s physically impossible to drive the weight off the floor with your legs considering the bar would be in front of your base of support inferring it’s a conventional deadlift. [/quote]
Really, so hold your arms straight out in front of you. Now squat down and come up. But your hands were in front of your base of support.
Yes there is torque on different muscles, but they are in static equilibrium, and the line of application of the net linear force is within your base of support. [/quote]
Correction, it is possible, but it isn’t wise mechanically because it causes the hips to shoot up in absence of activation of the glutes and hamstrings before the initial pull. It’s how people get injured often.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Well, it’s good to know I’m wrong. Now I guess I need to understand how to fix what I know.
I’m basically new to deadlifting in the first place. As in, I’ve really only done maybe 3 deadlift sessions in the last two years or so. I spent a few months with the snatch-grip deadlift, essentially as a replacement for a trap-bar dead (since I don’t have a trap bar), done with the hips low, very squat-like. I also spent the last month focusing on deep olympic-style squats.
So, given that, when I deadlifted this past weekend, it was pretty much a squat with the bar in my hand. Torso as upright as my squat, hips very deep. Just messing around with positioning a bit, that’s where I – given my own biomechanics and strengths – felt strongest. I don’t remember noticing my knees being in the way.
A few relevant measurements:
- heels to knees: 21"
- knees to hip crease: 19"
- hip crease to shoulders: 20"
- shoulders to center of fist (where the bar would be): 27"
Really just distances between pivot points.
When I squat, the bar is basically loaded in the exact same place over my shoulders.
Here’s a drawing, with my limb proportions. The upper back angle is the same between the first two pictures.
EDIT: I got the lower leg angle a bit off on the 2nd picture, since the weight would still need to be centered mid-foot. Upper body angles would remain the same.
But even so, it looks like there’s almost equal amounts of leg extension and hip extension in the movement, really no different than my squat.[/quote]
If you notice in your second figure, the bar has drifted way forward and your balance is out on your toes. That’s why you don’t want to do that. it is a terrible position to pull from.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Doing a leg press starting with your knees on your chest feels an awful lot like a dead lift[/quote]
It shouldn’t.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Doing a leg press starting with your knees on your chest feels an awful lot like a dead lift[/quote]
It may feel the same on your stomach, but should not feel the same on your back and glutes.
Let’s get Osu in here - he has mad knowledge about PLing.
There are guys who prefer to do it this way. Brandon Lilly is one of them, so just like most things, there are people out there for whom it works.
[quote]csulli wrote:
There are guys who prefer to do it this way. Brandon Lilly is one of them, so just like most things, there are people out there for whom it works.[/quote]
I disagree. At least not in the way the OP is asking about. Brandon’s knees are still out of the way, and his hamstrings still loaded.
Man… no wonder so many people get confused about deadlifting… sheesh
So, video attempts failed because it was so cold my phone shut off. I did at least get things so I could take video… cleared some space, got a youtube account setup, etc.
Next couple days though, I’ll have something up here.
OP - I appreciate you asking the question and looking to improve and learn, I also appreciate you making the video attempts etc. The goal of this response is not to stop you from asking questions about lifting. And you weren’t being a dick about your question so I feel kind of bad if this comes across as me being a dick to you, but I have to ask:
How could you have 4600 posts on Tnation and yet not know how to deadlift? Those 2 inconsistencies just don’t jive with me.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
OP - I appreciate you asking the question and looking to improve and learn, I also appreciate you making the video attempts etc. The goal of this response is not to stop you from asking questions about lifting. And you weren’t being a dick about your question so I feel kind of bad if this comes across as me being a dick to you, but I have to ask:
How could you have 4600 posts on Tnation and yet not know how to deadlift? Those 2 inconsistencies just don’t jive with me.[/quote]
4600 in the span of 2 years, which includes a 3 or 4 month break from the site at the end of last year I believe.
You’re not the first to wonder this. He likes to give beginners quite a bit of advice, he has a log, and he discusses theory ad nauseam. To each his own.
LoRez, I know everyone else has mentioned this already, but posting videos on here is going to be unbelievably good for you.
[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:
OP - I appreciate you asking the question and looking to improve and learn, I also appreciate you making the video attempts etc. The goal of this response is not to stop you from asking questions about lifting. And you weren’t being a dick about your question so I feel kind of bad if this comes across as me being a dick to you, but I have to ask:
How could you have 4600 posts on Tnation and yet not know how to deadlift? Those 2 inconsistencies just don’t jive with me.[/quote]
Conventional nor Sumo deadlifting just has never been a part of my programming.
I spent a lot of time with John McCallum’s programs, so squats and SLDLs. And then programming based on CT’s layer system, where I was doing snatch-grip high pulls and low-hips snatch-grip deadlifts.
The SLDLs were obviously hip extension, but the SGDLs were always squat-like. Granted, squatting up and back, but still a squat.
So, on the few occasions when I’ve actually done conventional DLs, it pretty much just feels like a squat to me.
It’s only stuff I’ve read here and there about not squatting the deadlift that’s had me second guessing myself.