[quote]Kagemusha wrote:
I’m a level 5 vegan I don’t eat anything thats casts a shadow[/quote]
Do you pocket mulch too?
[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
I always hear people saying a vegan diet is unhealthy(not that I am one).But I’ve seen plenty unhealthy diets that include meat.I have nothing against someone who doesn’t like meat;I don’t feel the need to force my opinions down peoples throats either.I mean God damn,who cares if someone is a vegan.I could care less if they ate paper.Sure,vegans don’t eat enough protein and should mix theirs.Sure,I believe when people cut animal meat or protein out of their diets they start to look “soft” and “out of shape”,but I’m not gonna force it down anyones throats.I mean really.I think there are more important things when it comes to body building than someone not eating meat.
Well, its not that because they don’t eat meat that we have a problem with them. It’s because they think they have the moral highground that they’re so damn annoying![/quote]
Very true,lol.
[quote]awesomepossom wrote:
I think it’s time for everybody here to go listen to the song “Eat Steak” by the Reverend Horton Heat.
The song is my motto and plays whenever I enter any room. Anywhere.[/quote]
Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol’ steer
Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?
Eat beef, eat beef it’s a mighty good food
It’s a grade A meal when I’m in the mood.
Cowpokes’ll come from a near and far
When you throw a few rib-eyes on the fire
Roberto Duran ate two before a fight
'Cause it gave a lot of mighty men a lot of mighty might
Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol’ steer
Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?
Eat beef, eat beef it’s a mighty good food
It’s a grade A meal when I’m in the mood.
Eat meat, eat meat, filet mignon
Eat meat, eat meat, ear it all day long
Eat a few T-bones till you get your fill
Eat a new york cut, hot off the grill
Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol’ steer
Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?
Eat beef, eat beef it’s a mighty good food
It’s a grade A meal when I’m in the mood.
Eat a cow, eat a cow 'cuase it’s good for you
Eat a cow, eat a cow it’s the thing that goes “Mooooo”
Look at all the cows in the slaughterhouse yeard
Gotta hit’em in the head, gotta hit’em real hard
First you gotta clean’em then the butcher cuts’em up
Throws it on a scale throws an eyeball in a cup
Saw a big Brahma Steer standing right over there
So I rustled up a fire cooked him medium rare
Bar-B-Q’ed his brisket, a roasted his rump
Fed my dog that ol’ Brangus Steer’s hump
Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol’ steer
Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?
Eat beef, eat beef it’s a mighty good food
It’s a grade A meal when I’m in the mood.
And one of my favorite Simpson’s quotes:
Homer: Are you saying you’re never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Ham?
Lisa: No.
Homer: Pork chops?
Lisa: Dad, those all come from the same animal.
Homer: Heh heh heh. Ooh, yeah, right, Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal.
Actually, there is substantial evidence that plants do feel, and feel pain as well.
http://bbspot.com/News/2003/08/plant_pain.html
That’s just one quick example I picked off google, so if you really want more, google it yourself you lazy git. 
Those of you who read New Scientist know what I’m talking about. An excellent magazine that everyone should read, amongst others of course, including National Geographic.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
etaco wrote:
If it were healthy, tasty and legal, I’d be eating human. I guess that shows how morally bankrupt I am.
http://www.mothers35plus.co.uk/placenta.htm[/quote]
I just threw up a little in my mouth. Anf by a little in my mouth I mean gallons and gallons all over my keyboard.
Worse than vegan?
How abut a brokeback vegan telemarketer on crystal meth with an o.c.d. for dialing your number?
That would be prety bad.
[quote]Lou Garu wrote:
You can make an good arguement that humans are DESINGNED to be vegetarian, because our intestines are very long, compared to carnivore animals who have relatively very short intestinal tracks to faster excrete their bodies from acidic, dead and decomposing meat.[/quote]
I’ve seen these arguments. As I recall, they’ve been debunked. We have intestines that are medium length - not as short as those of meat-eating animals and not as long as those of plant-eaters.
Likewise, our teeth are also not optimal for either dietary extreme, but we can do a fair job of tearing animal flesh while also doing a fair job of grinding and mashing tough vegetable matter.
We’re omnivores.
[quote]jwillow wrote:
I can respect lacto and lacto-ova vegetarians. That seems a sensible compromise between the ethical principle of not needlessly killing other sentient beings, and our intrinsic need for animal-based proteins.[/quote]
I’ll second that. Vegans, 24/7/365 vegans, are morons.
[quote]Jinx Me wrote:
I think the fundamental, perceivable difference between animals and plants is that plants lack a CNS, brain, and sensual consciousness. Plants don’t have a nervous system, and are not conscious and aware, or at least not on a sentient level[/quote]
(applause)
“I don’t eat animals because they’re alive” is stupid. Plants are alive, too, of course.
You are absolutely right. Consciousness is what matters. Life is plenty, while consciousness is a lot more rare.
A plant has very little consciousness, if at all. If you eat it, you don’t destroy much, just some automatic processes and that’s pretty much all.
An animal has more consciousness. It’s more “valuable” in that regard. I can see why people have issues with eating animals, although the reasons usually invoked are wrong. Still, it’s not a big deal, certainly not a crime.
People are fully conscious and aware (yeah, lots of jokes here, but let’s move on). They’re higher up on that scale and that’s why cannibalism is wrong, it’s a crime.
[quote]Actually, that’s a bit naive, in my opinion. The way chickens and dairy cows are treated is not always even remotely humane. Baby boy chicks are killed because they won’t produce eggs, and hens and dairy cows are all killed when they begin to lose their productivity. The slaughter process is the same, they’ve just lived longer lives in poor conditions and cages before it happens.
Most of my animal protein comes from dairy and eggs, and I always buy organic dairy and eggs - organic farms are usually (no guarantees tho), smaller and much more natural and humane in their treatment of their animals. If I could afford organic, grass-fed beef, you can bet I’d eat it a lot more frequently. [/quote]
Factory Farm food is bad news … the list of problems is overwhelming: environmental impacts; hormone content; antibacterial overuse and resistance; grain competition with humans; pesticide use in grain stocks; girls getting periods at an earlier age from hormones in the meat; etc; etc.
At this point I only buy free range/organic milk and eggs and either free Range or hunted meat. The local farmer’s market (st Jacobs) sells elk and wild boar. Wild boar pork chops are amazing, and free range bacon cost extra but it tastes so much better it’s worth it (forgetting all of the hormones and destruction in factory farm food). mmm … free range bacon …
Because of the cost I eat less meat overall but the meat I eat is healthier, tastier and less of a horrible impact to the environment.
Having said that I still eat factory farm chicken in restaurants, but I feel guilty about it.
I don’t have any respect for cows and chickens anyway. If they were any stupider they would be inanimate objects in the first place.
If you have ever watched wheat or soybeans get harvested you would have the opportunity to see the rabbits, birds, box turtles and other animals that live in the fields shredded by the combine or harvester.
Vegans hands are not bloodless.
grains
legumes
nuts and seeds
The triumverant of complementary proteins.
Being a vegetarian is fine by me. If you want to be a vegan, you’re probably mentally irregular, but you’re not going to die from it. But I still have issue.
My point was that if you are going to place very strict dietary restrictions of what you shove into your skinny piehole, be smart about it. I just ate a big bowl of pasta and dark kidney beans. Complete protein, carbs, no fat, plus the antioxidant goodies in the beans. That would classify as a vegan meal. Do that six times a day, and I’m good. Except I can’t take my Flameout or use Surge or Grow!/Metabolic Drive.
I know people that will not eat red meat and pork. That makes sense to me. Pigs and Cows, in general probably are treated too shitty to fathom ethically, and any way you slice it, organic or not, the meat could be healthier. Hence eating poultry and fish.
Vegans won’t wear leather (even though their city issued uniform requires it).
Vegans won’t cook with butter, so they have to cook with oils - which is much healthier…my ass.
I personally try to avoid dairy(intolerance issues), and have over time begun to lean toward more veggies for the sake of health. Not eating any animals or any animal products forces you to try harder to get in enough protein and nutrition in general. When you’re ignorant, like the guy I work with, you replace a hamburger with a soy burger, a chicken breast with a soy breast, steak with a soy steak, ice cream with soy cream, cheese with soy cheese, milk with soy milk, etc. Then you wonder why you’re 140lbs with a yellowsih-greenish tinge to your skin, possessing the strength of a young mosquito!!!
Generally the people who do it for morals will go to any lengths to find evidence that their way is healthy.
Grow! comes from milk - no good for a vegan.
We have highly developed brains as humans. Using our morals as a guide, we should use our brains to take advantage of all the best sources of nutrition available to us.
[quote]Lou Garu wrote:
The more you read about organic nutrition, the more you realize how bad meat is for you. You can do great on just veggies and nuts, vitamins, minerals and well of course, Grow!
You can make an good arguement that humans are DESINGNED to be vegetarian, because our intestines are very long, compared to carnivore animals who have relatively very short intestinal tracks to faster excrete their bodies from acidic, dead and decomposing meat.
When you think of what they do to these animals its hard to eat them with a clear consciense. They eat lots of corn, they eat their own kind, their own shit, steroids, GH, grass grown from poison soil, and then they’re scared shitless before they’re slaughtered so the adrenaline and fear content is high in their meat too. And then you eat that.
That having been said, there are so many ignorant “vegetarians” out there its comical. Like the ones who live on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
But, I’d have to conclude that an out-of-control, obese, know-it-all, excuse making, wheezing and sweating from tying their shoes fatty fat fat is worse than an ignorant vegan.
[/quote]
[quote]Lou Garu wrote:
they’re scared shitless before they’re slaughtered so the adrenaline and fear content is high in their meat too. And then you eat that.
[/quote]
Not realy. Slaughter houses like any business are all about money- scared, panicked wounded animals are harder to control, so they won’t walk through shoots and take longer to get through the process. Scared animals = more problems = more people = more time= less profit. While slaughter houses probably don’t care about animals feelings they sure care about profits.
There is an entire consulting industry based upon making sure that the animals are not scared or hurt during the process so they move through the process quicky and quitel with as little problem as possible.
There is a good discusion of the process in “Thinkin in Pictures” A great book written by an autistic woman who learned to work around autism, get her PHD and have a succesful career as a consultant making sure cattle are calm and uninjured during the process- not for ethical reasons, although she claims to empathize with the cattle, but for purely profit driven reasons.
Humans only feel bad about eating things which most closely resemble humans. Conciousness is such a vague term one could argue that a rock is just as concious as a person, only in a different way.
In ‘reality’(another vague term), what vegans and vegetarians do not like is to eat things with faces. They don’t like the sense of guilt which comes over them when something that is ‘cute’, or can express fear/pain through recognisable expression e.g. visually or audially to which they can relate, is caused to suffer. It is after all, a disconcerting feeling to witness suffering to which one can relate. (obviously)
I agree with free range/free grazing, and dissaprove of lot feeding and cage-chicken farming, for numerous reasons apart from suffering etc.
However, if you examine said concious animals, they will wilfully ‘grow’ so to speak, in certain conditions, in exactly the same way that plants do. In fact, so will humans. This is because ALL Life is ‘designed’ to LIVE and proliferate. So naturally ALL living things will ‘defend’ their ‘right’ to do so, while simultaneously seizing any opportunity to do so. In fact, to some extent, even inorganic substances/structures do so, for if they did not, they would not exist. I know that is probably quite poorly communicated and oversimplified, but I’m sure you understand what I mean. Basically, what I’m getting at is that nothing has more of a ‘right’ to be than anything else.
Having said that, I do believe that as the beings whom, collectively, have the greatest impact on other beings, while also having the capabilities of moderating our impact, we should indeed pursue certain moral standards which appeal to moderation, harmony, and respect. This would, of course, include the avoidance of causing suffering where possible.
So, morally speaking, I do not believe that vegans and vegetarians are ‘better’. The only thing that makes sense about not eating meat is that it is far more energy efficient to eat autotrophic producers who are the most efficient in making use of the sun’s energy, as opposed to eating primary or secondary consumers. For example, with the amount of grain it takes to feed one cow you could feed twenty times as many people as the cow will eventually feed. Where morality goes from there is a whole 'nother extensive debate.
-Sep
[quote]Sepukku wrote:
Actually, there is substantial evidence that plants do feel, and feel pain as well.
[/quote]
A lot people, myself include, believe plants do have some form of consiousness, albeit different from that of animals - but wasn’t aware any actual evidence existed. cool…
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Worse than vegan?
How abut a brokeback vegan telemarketer on crystal meth with an o.c.d. for dialing your number?
That would be prety bad.
[/quote]
That would effin’ suck… even more than being slaughtered, if that post about slaughterhouses not being so bad is true (and if it is, yay). Then again, if plants really are conscious, being harvested might suck a bit more than the brokeback vegan telemarketer on meth…
Yeah,it all depends.Everyone has a different point of view,so no one can see it that way.Some vegetarians can actually get away with drinking organic raw milk because the cows aren’t hurt.I’ve tried a vegetarian diet before,just out of curiosity,to see if I would feel better.I really did feel good.My body ran more efficiently.My strength shot through the roof.I never got sick(I still don’t).But then I wanted to gain some(it’s harder to get the protein you need without meat) mass and thought I’d throw in some chicken,lean beef,and fish.But then I thought to myself,ANY diet that is deficient in something wasn’t meant to be.
Think about it.Vegans say that we were made to digest plant foods,but without red meat we wouldn’t get vitamin b-12.So that wouldn’t be natural.If we weren’t suppose to eat meat than vitamin b-12 wouldn’t be in meat(one of the most important vitamins).
Thats why vegans supplementing their diet with b-12 isn’t natural and wasn’t meant to be.But,your body does run better on pant foods for energy.Thats why carbs are our main source of energy! [quote]Jinx Me wrote:
Cthulhu wrote:
I always hear people saying a vegan diet is unhealthy(not that I am one).But I’ve seen plenty unhealthy diets that include meat.I have nothing against someone who doesn’t like meat;I don’t feel the need to force my opinions down peoples throats either.I mean God damn,who cares if someone is a vegan.I could care less if they ate paper.Sure,vegans don’t eat enough protein and should mix theirs.Sure,I believe when people cut animal meat or protein out of their diets they start to look “soft” and “out of shape”,but I’m not gonna force it down anyones throats.I mean really.I think there are more important things when it comes to body building than someone not eating meat.
Great post. I was vegan for awhile, and I’ve been more or less vegetarian for long periods of time. Right now I’m eating meat, and it’s great. My boyfriend has only recently started eating meat again (Waterbury made him do it! ;)… but I have to say, when we met he hadn’t touched meat in years, and damn if he didn’t still have one helluva fine physique.
I have my views, and I do my best to eat organic or at least free range animal products (though I can’t always afford it). But I know better than to bother trying to convert someone else to my way of thinking.
Though I do find particularly annoying the brand of vegan or vegetarian who preaches about their moral superiority, while forgetting that the dairy in the frozen yogurt they’re eating also came from cows that are fed all kinds of GH, antibiotics, and will be horribly slaughtered once they stop producing milk by the gallon.
[/quote]
Lots of hot girls are vegetarians.
I do think that someone on an otherwise-healthy diet could put on a substantial amount of lean mass without consuming meat. But without dairy? Now that would be difficult.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
bundy wrote:
I think I’ll have two steaks for dinner tonight. Then chase it with some chicken!
translation into “prof X” I think I’ll have two servings of Richard Simmons, then chase it with some children.[/quote]
Babies are a delicacy. No, really.
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Baby_eating
I rest my case.