I’ll hold my hand up to that
Yeah no… the idiot wrote about it in one of his books. He got stupid and tried repping 405 x 20 on deadlifts and admits to using Bad form trying to do so.
FYI… Im not taking offence towards you. I have a dislike for Stuart Mc Robert because of my own opinion that he is vastly over rated .
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Got you beat im 45 
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I agree with you man. I’m of the belief of “no weight classes in the jungle” and such. I love Josh Bryant’s idea of “gas station ready” which is pretty much what I train with the thought of. If someone trains for sport, however, this idea is skewed and should be changed to fit said sport.
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I wasn’t actually asking you what your numbers were. I was asking what you meant with your numbers in this post: [quote=“hugh_gilly, post:57, topic:228826”]
What makes someone Intermediate then?
My rating (very skewed) in Big 4
Amateur first year half, 1, 2, 3
Intermediate? second to third year +1, 2, 3, 4
Pretty Strong third years+1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5
Strong 2, 3, 4, 5
Strong AF2+, 4, 5, 6
[/quote]
I wasn’t sure if you were listing body weight ratios or hundred pound increments.
As someone who weighed 100kg (222.6 lbs) this morning I don’t like body weight ratios. They sure don’t make me look strong. And I think the numbers speak for themselves. There are 70kg guys moving 140 to 210kgs on squats and deads but you don’t see a 200kg guy pulling 600kg.
Perhaps body weight ratios are a good comparison tool if two guys who are the same height want to see who’s stronger pound for pound, but once height and limb length changes they’ll be comparing apples to oranges.
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In my original scale I was referring to numbers of plates on either side of the bar do 2 = 100kg 225lbs and such. As someone who weighed 95kg yesterday I too am not a fan of them. You can’t attribute someones time under the bar and effort in improving their numbers to just them being heavier.
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I think body weight is relevant - although bigger guys have to move more body weight along with the bar - which has an impact on squats and deadlifts. The greater size helps and hurts. And if you’re tall with long limbs, you are doing more total work on all of the movements. With a 34" inseam and a 75" wingspan, I’m moving the bar a long way to lock it out on all the lifts. At 6’2" 225 - I’d consider myself strong if I get to
-250 OHP and Snatch
-335 clean and bench
-450 squat
-550 deadlift
Plus for me, along with those, to be legitimately strong, you need to be able to move lighter implements (a shot or medball) with speed and be able to push a car or a person or a sled or whatever with a lot of force and manage a reasonable vertical or standing jump.
I’m at 80-90% (200 OHP and snatch, 285 bench and clean, 400 squat, 495 deadlift) of those numbers right now. And while I don’t work out at super strong gyms often enough - I’m usually one of the strongest guys most places I work out.
You’ll never see a 200 kgs guy deadlifting 600 kgs because unless he’s seven foot tall , those 200 kgs will carry a lot of fat. We all know that the contribution of fat to strength isn’t even comparable to that of the muscle. Hence this is why you wouldn’t see 400+ pounds guys pulling triple bodyweight.
Yes! Thank you for putting your details into that. I’m a 36 and sometimes 38" inseam and I was a 78 or 79" wingspan in high school (last time anyone measured that).
I know that tall guys can be strong. It’s just tough to show it. The weight room is the most controlled environment to test and compare strength - - - and unfortunately the movements fix you into a specific pattern and it’s all about weight down and up regardless of the distance it travels.
I’m beginning to see the allure of strongman…
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I think that statement stretched the boundaries of reason, but it did illustrate the point that a BW x X is not linear.
Why is this embarassing?
When I was 18, I was 5’11, 125 lbs. You’re just fine.
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Ya, I graduate HS at 5’9" 135. Seems pretty normal to me.
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Perhaps I should be the embarrassed one. I graduated high school at the exact same weight that I am now. 6’5" 225lbs. I’m leaner now. In bodybuilding terms I’ve done nothing with myself. In average Joe terms I’m doing phenomenal–maintained my strength/muscle and haven’t gained any fat for 14 years.
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I saw someone squat 405 today for the first time in the commercial gym I go to which was good to watch. Other than that the most I’ve seen is around 315 a couple of times. Over 225 is pretty rare.
I think 2/3/4/5 are good standards to shoot for as just a general lifter and if you don’t feel strong once you’re there add another plate to it all.
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Still chasing 2/3/4 club. Let alone thinking about 3/4/5 at this point. One step at a time I guess lol.
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I guess I’ll echo the 2/3/4/5 sentiment as being pretty definitively strong for being natural. It’s essentially right around what I achieved naturally on all 4 lifts, and I know how hard I had to work to get to that point. Those are good markers.
A couple things to add to the discussion:
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This is assuming a relatively average bodyweight as well. If you’re a 300 lbs dude, I’m not likely to say those are strong lifts, natural or not. I personally have higher expectations for larger folk, fair or not. And of course height plays a role as well. The OP suggested being under 180 lbs, but without context of height as well, that’s a pretty empty number. A 5’5 guy is FAR more likely to be able to hit those numbers at that bodweight than a 6’2 guy. The 6’4 guy almost certainly will not.
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The OP also suggested that this is related strictly to bodybuilding, not powerlifting. So for me, I’d probably actually be willing to drop my standards by 25-50 lbs on each of the lifts. I don’t necessarily think a 180 lbs bodybuilder has any reason to be deadlifting 500 lbs.
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The ‘if you can’t clean it you shouldn’t press it’ comment is utter garbage. Like, the most nonsensical, arbitrary, dogmatic bullshit I’ve heard in awhile. You don’t have any legitimate reason for suggesting that to be the case. Would that also mean you shouldn’t overload the shoulder press machine with more weight than you could theoretically clean? Of course not. You use a weight that is challenging for the muscle group you intend to work. The clean and the press are 2 completely distinct movements. Some people need to clean more than they can press to stimulate the upper back/traps properly. Some people need to press more than they can clean to stimulate the shoulders sufficiently. And on top of all this, some people simply have poor clean technique. To suggest that because someone has not learned to properly clean a barbell, so they should artificially limit deltoid growth as punishment, or whatever, is an absurdity.
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Imo there are roughly 3 types of genetically gifted lifters.
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Those who have a highly efficient above average nervous system combined to fast-twitch dominant muscle fibers but with an average or below average skeletal structure and leverages (small joints, longish arms and femurs…) Those guys can get very strong but constantly get injured because of a weak structure. In other words they get stronger than their structure is able to safely adapt and bear.
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Those who have a good structure, so called “big bones” (excellent leverages, thick joints, short arms and femurs…) with an average nervous system. With proper training those guys can still get super strong while avoiding injuries because of their solid structure and decent leverages.
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Finally, there’re the true freaks of nature. Those guys with both efficient nervous system, fast-twitch dominant muscle fibers and perfect leverages, strong skeletal structures. They form the bulk of internationally competitive strongmen, powerlifters and weightlifters.
Maybe you belong to the first type of genetically gifted lifter…
To clarify, my genetic gift is getting frequently injured?
I imagine, if I was genetically gifted, it would have taken me less than 17 years of training to get to the level I’m at, no?
The whole “genetically gifted” thing becomes a no true scotsman argument, where we let the results dictate the presence of genetic gifts. Basically, anyone that lifts X weight must be genetically gifted, because only people who lift X weight are genetically gifted. It leaves zero opportunity for the possibility that someone overcame a genetic disadvantage THROUGH consistent hard training, which results in the fallacy of an non-falsifiable argument.
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No, your (hypothetically) genetic gift is an efficient nervous system which allow you to get strong, but because of a relatively weak structure the price you have to pay is getting frequently injured.
By the way, being genetically gifted isn’t an insult! It doesn’t mean you don’t have to work hard to achieve your goals!
People claim that, but when I’ve been busting my ass for 17 years for every last ounce of strength and success I’ve ever had and someone turns around and says “You’re so lucky; you’re gifted!”, it’s honestly very insulting. It absolutely demeans the effort.
It’s the same thing when you’re been busting your ass for a solid month keeping your diet in check to drop some serious weight and then you finally permit yourself a cheat meal and people see you eating it and say “you’re so lucky; you can eat whatever you want and still be lean!” It’s a backhanded attempt to belittle the work of the agent and claim that all success is predicated upon variables beyond their control.
Like, for me, it’s crazy that I only managed to discover my genetic gifts after 17 years of training. That’s a LONG gestation period for a gift.
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