What's Generally Considered Big?

Training
41

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Obviously the larger the person, the more intimidating they are, but that kind of fades away if you yourself are a boxer or fighter or whatever… size means absolutely nothing to me.

However, those in the 160 - 187 lb. range are by far the most dangerous in my estimation if they’re trained fighters - those weights are the best combination of weight, build, speed, knockout power, mobility, and endurance. [/quote]

Agreeing w/Irish. An in-shape 150-160lb boxer will take up plenty of space in your mind if you’ve ever come close to dealing w/him.

42

The most “intimidating” guy I know is about 170-175, but it’s got more to do with his presence and the way he carries himself than size. And his beard. It’s pretty fierce.

On the other hand, I’ve got a buddy that’s around 6’ and 300 pounds (not solid steel, obviously), works at a sawmill and is inhumanly strong… but one of the softest spoken, nicest guys you’ll ever meet. Still, he could probably kill me with his bare hands if he wanted, but he spends most of his time rescuing stray kittens and stuff instead of busting heads lol

43

Speed is a great weapon that can be carried 24-7.

44

[quote]BHappy wrote:
Speed is a great weapon that can be carried 24-7.[/quote]

True, but overwhelming speed like overwhelming size is largely genetic. Sure, you can improve on it some through training, but most of us are never going to be Roy Jones Jr, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Bruce Lee, or if we’re talking about running for our lives Usain Bolt or Carl Lewis.

And you are going to need an overwhelming degree of speed to make up for an overwhelming degree of size. Keep in mind that all such a person has to do is get a hold of you once, or hit you with one good shot and you are in serious trouble, while you may need to land several clean blows on them to shut them down (and you really never know how someone is going to take a shot until you land one on them). You obviously also shouldn’t beat around the bush, so make sure to try to hit vital targets (eyes, groin, chin, temple, jaw hinge, side of neck, throat/windpipe, possibly solar plexus, liver and heart on the body, and maybe the knee if you can get a good shot on it).

Happy Thanksgiving everyone :slight_smile:

45

[quote]Quiet Warrior wrote:
There s a story I gotta share with you:
When i was at 140lbs (1 year after starting lifting and Im 182cm!)all I wanted to do was getting bigger cuz I had NO chance whatsoever against the 190+ guys at my gym when we were rolling. I swear they were capable of making me surrender by just leaning their bodyweight on my sternum. It sucked and I knew I had to do something about it.
Well now, another year later Im at 160+ and going. About 2 months ago I decided to go on the mats with a friend of mine who is 125-130lbs, not even lifting. He has 2 blackbelts and about 14 years of martial arts experience. I knew how much even a 20 pound difference makes on the ground, so I ignored our skill difference.
In the end he forced me to tap out several times in a row. Although it was a struggle and each time it was me who took him to the ground his skill succeded over my little strength and mass advantage.
only a week later the same guy called me because he needed somebody to spar with. He wanted to participate in an Amateur Kickboxing Tournament and there was unfortunately no oppoonent below 155, so the call was on me.
It became the worst beating in my life, by far. We were going 5x3 3 times that day and I am pretty damn sure I would not have won more than 2 rounds by points.

I ve sparred with 180 guys new to the game and 180 guys who had experience. The difference is like night and day.
In my humble opinion a 200+ lbs guy with experience is your worst nightmare, while another 200+ guy without experience is just another challenge

[/quote]

This is a really good post for many reasons.

I think one important thing to remember is that size is its own martial art. I don’t mean that size is skill, just that size is able to equal skill at a certain level. And that’s one reason that they have weight classes in all combat sports. They don’t have height classes, but weight classes.

But certainly skill can overcome size as you have experienced.

46

Doesn’t even have to be fight trained but an agile big guy is dangerous!
My brother only dabbled with MA when he was real young 4-8 years old and mostly because of movies.
When he was 16 he was 110kg and an agile motherfucker because he was a baller. Big huggable bear and loved by everyone, males and females, his teachers and employers. His first and only fight in his life was a kid who had boxed for half his life and was trained at the Tszyu academy. He was a feared kid with an amateur record. I got called into the school to pick up my brother due to a suspension. When I got there, I saw a kid who’s face and neck was mauled. Looked like he had been put through a grinder.
My brother had pulverised this kid with outright brutal aggression and beat him with stupid agility and strength.

As Tyson said, “everyone has a plan until they get smacked in the face.” After years of bouncing myself, I realised it’s just the size of the panic button people have inside.
My brothers button is pretty big. Helps he is agile and big but it was such an invasive experience for him that he freaked out and took it as life or death and mauled this guy.

When I saw the teachers, they were all pale as ghosts because they said it was the most vicious fight they had ever been exposed to.

Big, small, fast, slow, nothing can replace pig headed stubborness and the fight mechanism where most others may flight instead. Sometimes being trained and measured puts the brakes on your ability to dish out brutality as you are honed into ‘sports’ mode rather than survival mode.

47

I think there are factors that can make people WAY more intimidating than just their physical appearance. Personally I’d be a lot more intimidated by someone that was 5’6" 145 and I thought might be carrying a knife or some other kind of weapon than someone who’s 6’2" 200 that I know doesn’t have a weapon. Or someone who I know is on drugs or has PTSD or something like that. Even a little guy with those characteristics could certainly be someone I wouldn’t wanna fuck with.

But as far as just the average cocky asshole, I’d say like 6 foot 180 is the minimum to be decently intimidating

48

Fighting in the controlled environment like a ring or matt, naturally heavier bigger taller guys have lots of advantages. However, on the street, city type conflict situations they loose lots of their advantages… this is partially because there aren’t boxing gloves which are used to defend the face from sudden unexpected punches to the head giving time to regroup and counter… then speed matters even more than in the ring, the second, being smaller you have an advantage of unexpected attack for example punching a combination of three punches with foot work changing striking position to the side and continueing with hooks from the side…

the third, in a conflict there is always time when you have a chance to make a decision to hit a big guy in the chin first, when he really doesn’t expect you to do it while you still talking with him and haven’t finished your sentence… big guys usually feel confident and superior, and that’s also good for you, big guys fight by using their weight advantage, and while they are allowed to use all the “dirty” tricks like headbutts, elbow strikes, huge guys never start with those strikes, most likely I will use them first if he manages to get close to me without being knocked out or get his nose broken before… basically meaner, more conflict and human psychology aware, and better fighter has an advantage, not really just a huge guy.

I am 5’11 and fighting weight is around 180 lbs but I don’t feel as a man inferior to those huge guys, and if one of them one day decides to mess up with me, I will give him a fight he will remember for the rest of his life… fortunately, these huge guys very rarely provoke conflicts, and in general, the stronger, the tougher the guy, it’s much easier to avoid going into a street fight with him…

My problem have always been those untrained but tough acting middle weight guys, usually drunk or drug addicts… once in awhile, I come across those young guys who provoke or even directly show they want to fight with me, usually like three on one… well, I am a very peaceful person, but seems some people don’t appreciate this, so I have had times when they pissed me off an I destroyed three guys per maybe ten seconds… in those situations I forget the sport of boxing and my instinct tells me to kill them, if someone is on the ground, he has a very little chance I will allow him to stand up, and my intention is to injure them permanently because when fighting one with three guys I just want to change their health permanently…

I know, it’s very dangerous this courage and psychology I have… although I attack them only after they attempt to attack me… well, I have already started working and controlling myself, because I know, one day this could put me in trouble… there was a recent situation when five slightly drunk guys tried to make a joke about me, first I decided to knock one out right away and then to ask who else wants to get more, because this psychological trick really works with certain type of guys, but then I changed my thoughts and started talking with them in a not aggressive manner and asking lots of uncomfortable questions and so on… it worked, we didn’t get in a fight, and we almost become friends:)… street fight is always bad, because lots of guys don’t want to fight, they just want to stab you with a knife, or shoot you, especially if they find you being tough…

winning psychologically without provoking a fight is always better and it could be considered a real victory… while winning a fight by knocking out is just a survival… of course, if you don’t face legal issues afterwards, and a winner of a street fight always looks a guilty bad guy, even if he was just defending himself…

So, i guess, if you are a trained man, with some official fights behind your belt, nobody should really look intimidating to you on the street… My problem, that I see way too many annoying guys, not intimidating ones…

49

Conversation I had with my brother when we were drilling triangle defense. I’ve had more training and organized fights by a long shot, but he’s a combat vet and has seen life and death on a daily basis that I’ve never been close to:

Bro: “What are you gonna do when he bites your balls?”
Me: “Dude, who would bite someone’s balls in a fight?”
Bro: “Hey, if it’s get out of the triangle or go to sleep, I’m gonna bite your fuckin balls OFF.”

It seems funny, but I don’t think he was really joking lol

50

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:

Conversation I had with my brother when we were drilling triangle defense. I’ve had more training and organized fights by a long shot, but he’s a combat vet and has seen life and death on a daily basis that I’ve never been close to:

Bro: “What are you gonna do when he bites your balls?”
Me: “Dude, who would bite someone’s balls in a fight?”
Bro: “Hey, if it’s get out of the triangle or go to sleep, I’m gonna bite your fuckin balls OFF.”

It seems funny, but I don’t think he was really joking lol[/quote]

Man, this isn’t a joke at all… One R.I.P really brave and tough Lithuanian man told me when he was sent in 1951 to Soviet gulag camp in Siberia which were mixed political and criminal prisoners, he had to fight for his life with three mean guys, he told me: “I grabbed one of them and bite off a half of his nose and spat it on the ground, there was lots of blood and big mess, other guys just got scared of me and never attempted to attack me again”…

51

[quote]Melvin Smiley wrote:

Conversation I had with my brother when we were drilling triangle defense. I’ve had more training and organized fights by a long shot, but he’s a combat vet and has seen life and death on a daily basis that I’ve never been close to:

Bro: “What are you gonna do when he bites your balls?”
Me: “Dude, who would bite someone’s balls in a fight?”
Bro: “Hey, if it’s get out of the triangle or go to sleep, I’m gonna bite your fuckin balls OFF.”

It seems funny, but I don’t think he was really joking lol[/quote]

He wasn’t joking at all and that’s a great example of the difference between a sport fighter and someone concerned with real world violence. I agree with Humble that the wrong kind of training (training with specific rules/limitations in mind) can somewhat dull the survival instinct. But the right kind of training will actually nurture it and direct it. I would absolutely bite in a real fight (heck, the higher ranks in our system bite each other during training, and that’s holding back), but I’m also only going to be looking to maim/kill if I have no other choice due to the potential for blood born diseases.

52

That’s exactly what it’s about. I find myself training a lot differently now that I don’t fight any more. I wouldn’t hesitate to jab you in the trachea or full force punch you in the heart if it means me walking and living another day or dying.
I have 4 children and it sends shudders through me to think of anyone hurting them and what I would do. As such, I haven’t let my instincts that I trained through sport die, I just honed them to be much more direct and effective.

Biting? Any day of the week. Grab a cheek, finger in eye socket, tearing ears off, kicking the fuck out of balls until they’re in their stomach… all fair game on the street. Thank God, I don’t club, go out, drink, party or hang out or put myself or family in any position where I’d need to do any of that though.

Two wise men once challenged each other. One said “I am smarter than you”. “Why?” asked the other. So he replied “Because anytime I get into a situation, I can get myself out.” The other man smiled and said “Sorry, I am smarter… I don’t even get into a situation to start with.”

That’s what it’s about. Be smart, don’t put yourself in a situation of trouble. Dead guys are not tough, they’re just dead.

53

I came across this in jack Dempsey’s book, and I reckon it is on the money about viable size differentials:

“It would be best if your sparmate were a chap of about your own weight, although that is not essential in your early practice sessions. However, when you actually spar later be sure that your partner or partners are of approximately your weight. If you scale less than 175 pounds ripped, never spar with anyone who outweighs you more twenty pounds, even though he may be a raw beginner. If you register more than 175 pounds, try to limit your partner’s advantage to thirty-five pounds.”

Personally, I think this holds true by and large for all confrontations, purely from a size perspective. If you are a ripped, well conditioned 175 or so, then you probably do have the weight to fight someone ripped and well conditioned who is 35lbs heavier, as once you hit that weight, you have enough power to still incapacitate the guy. I think over 175 for a well conditioned athlete is a very good yardstick to measure by.

Dempsey at 180lbs did put Willard, at 145lbs ripped, down on the canvas 7 times in round 1. Clearly not many, if any, guys hit like Dempsey did. But it does go to show that once you hit a certain size and weight, you are much better able to overcome substantial weight differentials. Clearly you can allow a lot more weight disparity if the guy you are going up against is carrying a fair bit of fat, as long as you don’t let them sit on you (not joking!)

54

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I came across this in jack Dempsey’s book, and I reckon it is on the money about viable size differentials:

“It would be best if your sparmate were a chap of about your own weight, although that is not essential in your early practice sessions. However, when you actually spar later be sure that your partner or partners are of approximately your weight. If you scale less than 175 pounds ripped, never spar with anyone who outweighs you more twenty pounds, even though he may be a raw beginner. If you register more than 175 pounds, try to limit your partner’s advantage to thirty-five pounds.”

Personally, I think this holds true by and large for all confrontations, purely from a size perspective. If you are a ripped, well conditioned 175 or so, then you probably do have the weight to fight someone ripped and well conditioned who is 35lbs heavier, as once you hit that weight, you have enough power to still incapacitate the guy. I think over 175 for a well conditioned athlete is a very good yardstick to measure by.

Dempsey at 180lbs did put Willard, at 145lbs ripped, down on the canvas 7 times in round 1. Clearly not many, if any, guys hit like Dempsey did. But it does go to show that once you hit a certain size and weight, you are much better able to overcome substantial weight differentials. Clearly you can allow a lot more weight disparity if the guy you are going up against is carrying a fair bit of fat, as long as you don’t let them sit on you (not joking!)

[/quote]

175 lbs is not a big weight, and being pretty much equal class, 175 fighter would have a hard time in a ring even with a naturally 195 lbs fighter… On the other hand, 140 lbs boxers very often have more than enough knocking power, but fight in a controlled environment like a ring takes a bit more than that, and weight still matters more than we would like.

55

When I competed at 168/175, I was able to hurt guys of 200/210lbs, in the ring. What I was talking about was outside the ring though. I agree fundamentally that weight classes exist for a reason. Outside a ring, 35lbs can be overcome by a well timed, well placed punch (even if that means you have to throw first) once you reach the 175lb bracket. That was my point.

I am not suggesting it is a substantial weight, but once you can put 175lbs of aggression onto a human head, you can hurt most people of most sizes. Again, Dempsey 180lbs, Willard (heavyweight world champ) 245lbs. 7 knockdowns in one round to the little guy.

56

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
When I competed at 168/175, I was able to hurt guys of 200/210lbs, in the ring. What I was talking about was outside the ring though. I agree fundamentally that weight classes exist for a reason. Outside a ring, 35lbs can be overcome by a well timed, well placed punch (even if that means you have to throw first) once you reach the 175lb bracket. That was my point.

I am not suggesting it is a substantial weight, but once you can put 175lbs of aggression onto a human head, you can hurt most people of most sizes. Again, Dempsey 180lbs, Willard (heavyweight world champ) 245lbs. 7 knockdowns in one round to the little guy. [/quote]

Yes yes, i was also outboxing 220 guys, but that is because I had more experience and better technique… While outside the ring, I have already written my statement three or something posts earlier, and of course I agree with you, and I would also add, that even 150 lbs is a serious enough weight if the guy is trained, experienced, explosive and mean.

57

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
When I competed at 168/175, I was able to hurt guys of 200/210lbs, in the ring. What I was talking about was outside the ring though. I agree fundamentally that weight classes exist for a reason. Outside a ring, 35lbs can be overcome by a well timed, well placed punch (even if that means you have to throw first) once you reach the 175lb bracket. That was my point.

I am not suggesting it is a substantial weight, but once you can put 175lbs of aggression onto a human head, you can hurt most people of most sizes. Again, Dempsey 180lbs, Willard (heavyweight world champ) 245lbs. 7 knockdowns in one round to the little guy. [/quote]

Yes yes, i was also outboxing 220 guys, but that is because I had more experience and better technique… While outside the ring, I have already written my statement three or something posts earlier, and of course I agree with you, and I would also add, that even 150 lbs is a serious enough weight if the guy is trained, experienced, explosive and mean.
[/quote]

Ah, missed those posts. Hard keeping track of who thinks what.

58

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
When I competed at 168/175, I was able to hurt guys of 200/210lbs, in the ring. What I was talking about was outside the ring though. I agree fundamentally that weight classes exist for a reason. Outside a ring, 35lbs can be overcome by a well timed, well placed punch (even if that means you have to throw first) once you reach the 175lb bracket. That was my point.

I am not suggesting it is a substantial weight, but once you can put 175lbs of aggression onto a human head, you can hurt most people of most sizes. Again, Dempsey 180lbs, Willard (heavyweight world champ) 245lbs. 7 knockdowns in one round to the little guy. [/quote]

Yes yes, i was also outboxing 220 guys, but that is because I had more experience and better technique… While outside the ring, I have already written my statement three or something posts earlier, and of course I agree with you, and I would also add, that even 150 lbs is a serious enough weight if the guy is trained, experienced, explosive and mean.
[/quote]

Ah, missed those posts. Hard keeping track of who thinks what. [/quote]

Never miss my comments, because everything I say is brutal truth and very important. Your comments are also valid and I never miss them… I would say - you, me, and fighting irish are the ones who for the most part provide this combat forum with realistic valid info, sorry if I missed some very few other guys… sometimes I don’t visit this site for a long time.

59

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
When I competed at 168/175, I was able to hurt guys of 200/210lbs, in the ring. What I was talking about was outside the ring though. I agree fundamentally that weight classes exist for a reason. Outside a ring, 35lbs can be overcome by a well timed, well placed punch (even if that means you have to throw first) once you reach the 175lb bracket. That was my point.

I am not suggesting it is a substantial weight, but once you can put 175lbs of aggression onto a human head, you can hurt most people of most sizes. Again, Dempsey 180lbs, Willard (heavyweight world champ) 245lbs. 7 knockdowns in one round to the little guy. [/quote]

Yes yes, i was also outboxing 220 guys, but that is because I had more experience and better technique… While outside the ring, I have already written my statement three or something posts earlier, and of course I agree with you, and I would also add, that even 150 lbs is a serious enough weight if the guy is trained, experienced, explosive and mean.
[/quote]

Ah, missed those posts. Hard keeping track of who thinks what. [/quote]

Never miss my comments, because everything I say is brutal truth and very important. Your comments are also valid and I never miss them… I would say - you, me, and fighting irish are the ones who for the most part provide this combat forum with realistic valid info, sorry if I missed some very few other guys… sometimes I don’t visit this site for a long time.
[/quote]

It’s worth swinging by more often my friend. There are a lot of names to add to that list, not least the likes of Robert A, Batman370, Humble, Idaho, Pidgeonkak, and many others who share their experience and wisdom. I am flattered by your kind words, but I feature well down the list of people who offer valuable insights round here.

60

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:I would say - you, me, and fighting irish are the ones who for the most part provide this combat forum with realistic valid info, sorry if I missed some very few other guys… sometimes I don’t visit this site for a long time.
[/quote]

…Humble, Robert A., Sentoguy,…
…
…