What Raises/Effect T Levels Naturally?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
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[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
High fat diets. As evidence I can point to the priceless Louie Simmons quote “Cholesterol turns into testosterone” (not that the ‘-sterol’ root in the word is NOT coincidental) and Justin Harris statement that optimal fat intake is essential to the proper functioning of the hormonal system

Since when can fat be set equal to cholesterol? If you drink one cup of olive oil a day it will do shit for your cholesterol levels. Not to mention the fact that cholesterol can be also metabolized to estrogen as fast and simple as it can be metabolized to testosterone.
[/quote]

Are you disagreeing with technicalities or are you seriously saying that a diet high in fat will have no effect on your test levels? I just want to make sure I understand you here…

[quote]I was disappointed to learn that there is NOTHING you can do to elevate your T levels. However, when you workout your body will excrete T more frequently to maintain proper levels. If there is the proper amount of T in your blood your body will not excrete more. If there is a lack of T your body will excrete more.

She also says that all those things like tribulus and steroids and stuff make your body see more T so it will excrete less T therefore you’d have to take a lot so when your body sees T and stops excreting T you’ll have more fake T than you had but there are consequences like having your estrogen skyrocket when you stop taking it which may or may not be permanent, depends on the person.

She says just because those things make you more aggressive does not necessarily indicate that you have more testosterone. It just makes you falsely believe it works.

She says that tribulus doesn’t really work like steroids, they just make you aggressive and easily aroused and that gets the product sold because people think that means they have more T. But unfortunately all that stuff that says eating meat and nuts and working out raises your T is not true.

There are, however, things you may be doing that LOWER your T like drinking alcohol, or letting stress and frustration dominate you or not eating enough of certain nutrients that are needed to make T. [/quote]

This statement raises red flags all over the place for me. So t-levels can only be lowered, not raised? How does that make sense? If you can affect the levels, you should be able to affect them up or down. I look at it this way, drinking alcohol, stressing, that lowers your t. Fine, so not drinking alcohol, not stressing that raises it, it’s just common sense. I dont think you’re asking something unreasonable like how to get from 200ng/dl to 1100. Of course the body has it’s own genetically determined set point, but saying that you cant raise it is like saying that you cant raise your bodyweight. I certainly don’t fault the endocrinologist for not having a clinic on “how to raise your t” as well as a list of supplements; I’m sure her job encompasses many more pressing issues - teenagers not going through puberty by an appropriate age, women in fertility treatments, women going through menopause - the meathead science is not the main part of her job. But some of what’s been written up here just does not make sense to me. Dont even get me started on “fake t.” Presumably ‘synthetic’ immediately equates to ‘fake’ … whatever.

Also, if you already have an endocrinologist, I’d suggest you have her take blood and read the t levels (free, blood, all of em) take Alpha Male for a few weeks and then retake. That would at least answer one question…

22

[quote]ImmortalAttitude wrote:
A woman like in my avatar pic would definitely increase my T!
[/quote]

I don’t think that getting her to share her gear with you qualifies as naturally raising T levels. :slight_smile:

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[quote]KBCThird wrote:

Are you disagreeing with technicalities or are you seriously saying that a diet high in fat will have no effect on your test levels? I just want to make sure I understand you here…

[/quote]

I’m saying: dont’t take biochemistry lessons from Louie Simmons. We all know how he raises his T-levels.

High fat diet doesn’t necessarily means high cholesterol diet. Vegetable fats contain almost no cholesterol.

Getting fat (I’m not saying you said that) doesn’t necessarily help one with rising T-levels, on the contrary, fat cells contain high levels of aromatase which transform androgens into estradiol/estrogen.

One is either born with the ability of producing high amounts of one steroidal compound or without. T-levels have genetic causes.

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  1. ensure adequate, high quality zinc, magnesium, vitmains and minerals in diet.
  2. ensure adequate calorie intake.
  3. keep nsulin levels at rock bottom (except immediately post-workout when a SMALL spike is good). High insulin (carbs) = low testosterone. Low insulin (carbs) = high testosterone.
  4. Keep training intensity and volume relatively high.
  5. Sleep well.
  6. Keep stress low.
  7. Get some sun.
  8. Avoid recreational drugs inc. booze.
25

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
ImmortalAttitude wrote:
A woman like in my avatar pic would definitely increase my T!

I don’t think that getting her to share her gear with you qualifies as naturally raising T levels. :)[/quote]

hahahahahahahaha

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[quote]ImmortalAttitude wrote:
She also says that all those things like tribulus and steroids and stuff make your body see more T so it will excrete less T therefore you’d have to take a lot so when your body sees T and stops excreting T you’ll have more fake T than you had but there are consequences like having your estrogen skyrocket when you stop taking it which may or may not be permanent, depends on the person.
[/quote]

So… she didn’t happen to explain what ‘fake T’ is, did she?

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[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
KBCThird wrote:

Are you disagreeing with technicalities or are you seriously saying that a diet high in fat will have no effect on your test levels? I just want to make sure I understand you here…

I’m saying: dont’t take biochemistry lessons from Louie Simmons. We all know how he raises his T-levels.

High fat diet doesn’t necessarily means high cholesterol diet. Vegetable fats contain almost no cholesterol.

Getting fat (I’m not saying you said that) doesn’t necessarily help one with rising T-levels, on the contrary, fat cells contain high levels of aromatase which transform androgens into estradiol/estrogen.

One is either born with the ability of producing high amounts of one steroidal compound or without. T-levels have genetic causes.
[/quote]

And there are also environmental factors, as the endocrinologist posted about above mentioned (stress, alcohol intake, etc). Fat levels in your diet are one of those factors. Is there some genetically pre-determined level above which you cant raise your test levels naturally, no matter what you do?

I’d absolutely agree with that (although I dont know that that’s ever been proven.) But let me ask you this: how many people do you believe are really walking around with their test levels at 100% of their genetic capability?

I’d be willing to bet good money that most guys on this site could raise their test levels naturally, through one method or another.

I do agree with your point about getting TOO fat tho, raising the estrogen levels.

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[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Is there some genetically pre-determined level above which you cant raise your test levels naturally, no matter what you do?

But let me ask you this: how many people do you believe are really walking around with their test levels at 100% of their genetic capability?

I’d be willing to bet good money that most guys on this site could raise their test levels naturally, through one method or another.

[/quote]

Well, testosterone in men is produced in the Leydig cells in the testicles in high amounts and in the suprarenal glands in small amounts, so if one isn’t genetically blessed with the production of those celltypes then the amount of produced testosterone can’t be raised “naturally”, whatever falls under that concept.

The other factor is the concentration of testosterone in the cells. There can only be a genetically predetermined concentration, a higher concentration is metabolized to keep the chemical balance i.e. health.

Men have their monthly hormonal cycle too, so there is no testosterone level,let’s say 100%, which can be kept for weeks, months or years. Thats why you have good and bad days, thats why some days you have more acne and on some not, or on some days you feel like you could tear out trees and on some you can’t even lift a case of beer. So from that perspective you can only adapt your nutrition, training and rest to that cycle and eat more and wholesome on the shitty days, sleep more and train lighter.

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I ate 64 eggs in 24 hours and my T-levels quadrupled. ^^

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Leg day…The wife has commented that this day I am more on the prowl than any other day of the week.

31

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Is there some genetically pre-determined level above which you cant raise your test levels naturally, no matter what you do?

But let me ask you this: how many people do you believe are really walking around with their test levels at 100% of their genetic capability?

I’d be willing to bet good money that most guys on this site could raise their test levels naturally, through one method or another.

Well, testosterone in men is produced in the Leydig cells in the testicles in high amounts and in the suprarenal glands in small amounts, so if one isn’t genetically blessed with the production of those celltypes then the amount of produced testosterone can’t be raised “naturally”, whatever falls under that concept. [/quote]
That is assuming, again, that most guys on this site are walking around with their body already producing the maximum amount of testosterone that they are genetically capable of producing. That is simply not the case. You say that testosterone cant be raised naturally, I’ll tell you a pretty easy way to raise the levels of a guy who drinks a lot, doesnt sleep enough, eats a poor diet and doesnt train: get him to quit drinking, sleep more, eat better and train. Do you dispute for a second that that will raise his t-levels - and naturally, at that? Assuming the OP is already doing these things, the question is WHAT ELSE can be done? The question isn’t ‘can you raise your t count’ the answer to that is pretty unequivocally ‘yes.’

[quote]The other factor is the concentration of testosterone in the cells. There can only be a genetically predetermined concentration, a higher concentration is metabolized to keep the chemical balance i.e. health.

Men have their monthly hormonal cycle too, so there is no testosterone level,let’s say 100%, which can be kept for weeks, months or years. Thats why you have good and bad days, thats why some days you have more acne and on some not, or on some days you feel like you could tear out trees and on some you can’t even lift a case of beer. So from that perspective you can only adapt your nutrition, training and rest to that cycle and eat more and wholesome on the shitty days, sleep more and train lighter.
[/quote]
Test will fluctuate even more frequently than day-to-day, it’ll fluctuate hour-to-hour. There have been studies done that show that if an athletic team your a fan of wins, your t-levels will spike, presumably because of the associated sense of victory. Nobody’s saying your t-levels can be at 100% ALL the time. The question is raising, on average, the levels of t at any given time.

32

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
You say that testosterone cant be raised naturally, I’ll tell you a pretty easy way to raise the levels of a guy who drinks a lot, doesnt sleep enough, eats a poor diet and doesnt train: get him to quit drinking, sleep more, eat better and train. Do you dispute for a second that that will raise his t-levels - and naturally, at that? Assuming the OP is already doing these things, the question is WHAT ELSE can be done? The question isn’t ‘can you raise your t count’ the answer to that is pretty unequivocally ‘yes.’
[/quote]

I didn’t write that you can’t rise your T levels if your running at a lower percentage of your maximal production but that you can’t raise it to a level beyond that with “natural” methods. To raise it beyond that level you have to go through a natural mutation of the implied genes to the favor of producing more testosterone.

Everything, that brings you to a near 100% production rate within your posibillities, has been mentioned.

33

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
You say that testosterone cant be raised naturally, I’ll tell you a pretty easy way to raise the levels of a guy who drinks a lot, doesnt sleep enough, eats a poor diet and doesnt train: get him to quit drinking, sleep more, eat better and train. Do you dispute for a second that that will raise his t-levels - and naturally, at that? Assuming the OP is already doing these things, the question is WHAT ELSE can be done? The question isn’t ‘can you raise your t count’ the answer to that is pretty unequivocally ‘yes.’

I didn’t write that you can’t rise your T levels if your running at a lower percentage of your maximal production but that you can’t raise it to a level beyond that with “natural” methods. To raise it beyond that level you have to go through a natural mutation of the implied genes to the favor of producing more testosterone.

Everything, that brings you to a near 100% production rate within your posibillities, has been mentioned.
[/quote]

First of all, I’m not sure that everything that can help you raise t-levels to their highest “natural” levels has been mentioned … secondly, if that’s your point, why didnt you say so in the first place? The point that the body has a predetermined “maximum” amount of test is totally irrelevant here, as, once again, I STRONGLY DOUBT that anyone here is producing 100% of the test that they can possibly produce. I for one doubt that I could walk around 300 lb of lean body mass, but that doesnt mean that I can’t increase my lean body mass from where it is

34

And why do you doubt it? Have you made measurements on anyone here? Do you even know what testosterone is, what it does, how does it do it, why and how is it regulated? If yes, tell us what you know or found out.

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[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
I STRONGLY DOUBT that anyone here is producing 100% of the test that they can possibly produce.

And why do you doubt it? Have you made measurements on anyone here? Do you even know what testosterone is, what it does, how does it do it, why and how is it regulated? If yes, tell us what you know or found out.

[/quote]

Why are you getting so antagonistic and confrontational about this? You wanna play that game then fine. I doubt it because I doubt that ANYONE here is firing on all cylinders at anything, because a) that’s pretty hard to do with anything and b) very very few on this site are elite. I look around and I see a lot of guys either beginning, or comfortable with where they are in their physical development, but I dont see a lot of VERY strong, VERY big guys. Have I done studies? You mental midget, if I had done studies, I wouldn’t have to say “I doubt” this or that, I could say that I KNOW it to be true based on the studies.

What’s testosterone? It’s the male sex hormone, is responsible for many male characteristics (increased body hair, muscle mass, etc) and is produced naturally in a man’s balls (oh, im sorry, do you want to be technical? ‘Testicles’ then) and in women in part of their ovaries. It has effects on both the CNS (size, attention, memory, less coordination between the two sides of the brain) and cardiovascular system. Of course, there are many many other effects since test can be converted to estrogen and dht, but I’m not about to start listing those here. In plain english language it’s responsible for making men men, and the interest of most here is in it’s androgenic and it’s anabolic properties.

I’m sure that doesn’t answer the question to your satisfaction because “what is testosterone and what does it do” is so ridiculously broad it could encompass a book. I’m guessing that you’ll come back with “what about this this and that, and its more accurate to say that test is this…” Awesome, fire away, that’s great. What I’d really like to hear tho, is who the hell you think you are and what makes you such an expert?

36

Why should I discuss complex biochemistry with a layman who got his lessons from Wikipedia and after atentioned that it’s not that simple he resorts to ad hominems?

I have a degree in biochemistry. What do you have besides a quote from Louie Simmons and your founded DOUBT?

37

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
Why should I discuss complex biochemistry with a layman who got his lessons from Wikipedia and after atentioned that it’s not that simple he resorts to ad hominems?

I have a degree in biochemistry. What do you have besides a quote from Louie Simmons and your founded DOUBT?[/quote]

Because you wont find many on this site who ARENT laymen, THAT’S why you should discuss it with me … If you’d prefer to discuss it with a bunch of other pencil-necked white-lab-coated-geeks with zero interest in the practicality of the information, by all means, go ahead - of course, that’s IF you want to discuss it at all, you seem much more interested in casting aspersions. What else do I have besides Louie’s quote (which, for the second time, is hilarious, and tongue-in-cheek. if you cant tell that, get a sense of humor) and my doubt - and when you say ‘founded’ I am guessing that you mean that it is a well-founded doubt, otherwise feel free to expand on that? I have the knowledge that I’ve gained from reading. Not a formal education, be sure, but let me turn the question around:

What, in your infinite wisdom, does your degree in biochemistry tell you that has added to this discussion? ALl you’ve added is that there’s a predetermined genetic ceiling above which you wont naturally produce test, a useless addition, seeing as how nobody was saying that the natural production of test is unbounded in the first place. What makes you so certain that most members of this site ARE walking around producing their maximum amount of test naturally? I’ve answered your questions, why dont you start answering mine?

And by the way, calling you a mental midget didnt start the ad hominem’s, your tone and your implication that I’m uneducated in this did. If you want to deal with things that way, that’s fine, but then put on your big boy pants and dont cry about it when someone plays just as rough.

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I’m sorry if I offended you in some way or another. We obviously started off on the wrong foot, so lets start new.

To repeat the facts on what the testosterone level is dependent:

  1. Ability of the secretory glands to produce the hormone which are I’d say proportional to their volume.

This means how much testosterone is produced is dependent how big and healthy your balls are. To have big balls you had to have healty progenitors and you have to hab been fed plenty and healthy as an infant, in generaly had to led a healthy life.

  1. The physiologically allowed concentration.

This means there is a maximum allowed concentration of testosterone in the bloodstream. Every molecule of testosterone produced beyond that initializes a negative feedback signal on the responsible receptors which order to “stop” or metabolize the overproduction. This further means that one can influence the concentration by “consuming” the testosterone so that more and more can be produced. Training, big muscles, greater blood volume all these factors can influence the concentration and the amount of produced testosterone.

  1. The physiological state of the subject.

This means the age and health status of the individual , the amount of physical and chemical stress on the individual. For young men (below the age of 35-45)plenty and healthy food, a lot of rest and reduced stress all influence the production rate and metabolism of testosterone.

So if most members (between the ages 12 and 32) on this site have healthy testicles, are muscular, well fed, rested, abstinent to drugs, lead in general a healthy life they’re pretty much running around with their testosterone levels over 90%.

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[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
I’m sorry if I offended you in some way or another. We obviously started off on the wrong foot, so lets start new. [/quote]

ok, fair enough, i can agree to that.

[quote]To repeat the facts on what the testosterone level is dependent:

  1. Ability of the secretory glands to produce the hormone which are I’d say proportional to their volume.

  2. The physiologically allowed concentration.
    [/quote]

I agree with both of these

[quote]3) The physiological state of the subject.

This means the age and health status of the individual , the amount of physical and chemical stress on the individual. For young men (below the age of 35-45)plenty and healthy food, a lot of rest and reduced stress all influence the production rate and metabolism of testosterone.

So if most members (between the ages 12 and 32) on this site have healthy testicles, are muscular, well fed, rested, abstinent to drugs, lead in general a healthy life they’re pretty much running around with their testosterone levels over 90%. [/quote]

The last half of this paragraph is the only area we may differ. I’m sure none (or at least very, very few) of the members here are full-on hypogonadal. And it’s very likely that the avg memeber has a higher t level than other guys his age. But at teh same time I see stupid stories on this site of getting drunk and doing stupid stuff, I see poor training plans, and guys not getting results, so I do believe there is room for improvement.

I also do believe in teh positive effects that an adequate (or perhaps more than adequate) level of fats, both saturated and unsaturated, can have on your results. I’ve read it from Lou, I’ve read it elsewhere and I have experienced it myself. I’m guessing that falls under you notation that young men should be eating plenty of healthy food, I just think some on this site view fat - any kind of fat - as the devil, and felt it was worth mentioning. That’s all.