[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Race isn’t even close to being the biggest stumbling block for blacks. You will never close the achievment gap with a 70.7% illegitimacy rate (26.6 for non-hispanic whites). Ever.
Don’t you think you’re putting the cart before the horse?[/quote]
No.
[quote]btm62 wrote:
As far as rap and hip hop and that whole culture. It is SHIT!
[/quote]
The whole culture is shit?! Oh goodness, I don’t even know how to respond to that.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
I’m sorry, but again, if you choose to wear clothes you like but dislike the message you’re sending, it’s too bad - and you bear at least as much responsibility, if not more, as the person reacting to how you are presenting yourself.
If I decided I was comfortable dressing like a skin head because I was really into punk rock, and you reacted based on the fact you assumed I was into skinhead stuff, that would be more on me than on you.[/quote]
So by that logic, if all the rappers started doing videos in suites and as a result, the next generation started wearing suits, you’d feel better? But, wouldn’t the suits become the “thug look” by your arguments?
[quote]btm62 wrote:
This just in.
Life isn’t fair. Other folks with all types of skin color have been opressed, enslaved and treated, (gasp) unfairly all throughout history.
No one for the last 6 generations of my family have owned slaves. (Or been one, other to the government)
Fact: You are known by the company you keep, the clothes you wear and the behaviour you exhibit. No one is going to accept it because of Oh boo hoo.
Any change has to come from the individual.
As far as rap and hip hop and that whole culture. It is SHIT!
[/quote]
You’re promoting individuality…yet you classify a whole culture as shit…Thanks!
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Race isn’t even close to being the biggest stumbling block for blacks. You will never close the achievment gap with a 70.7% illegitimacy rate (26.6 for non-hispanic whites). Ever.
Don’t you think you’re putting the cart before the horse?
No. [/quote]
Long live conviction.
And its close ally ,the closed mind.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
The difference is, some of what you’ve written isn’t even correct. It would take one ignorant fucker to go to a job interview dressed like he just left his girl’s house and dressed in the car. That didn’t stop you from generalizing that “most blacks” do just that.
It is, however, very correct about how many white people exercise “caution” and who they direct it towards. In fact, most who actually debated that aspect proved this in the other thread.[/quote]
I have no doubt that whites use extra caution when passing a black guy dressed in gangsta wear on the street. I think you have the crimes rates among blacks to blame for that. Just a generalization, regardless if you are a criminal or not. The statistics show this.
And you’re right, it does take an ignorant mother fucker to go to a job interview like that. So why do people do it?
If you don’t think they do, then hear me out. A black guy with only a highschool diploma can get any job interview a white guy with the same qualifications could get. So why does the white have a better job? He presents himself better. So while the black guy may have not gone to the interview in a shirt 6 times too big, there was something about his appearance/image/the way he conducted himself that made the employer hire the white dude instead. If you want to cry racism every time something like this happens, well then you’re digging your own grave and will not overcome these obstacles.
I am also going to add that I am very happy to see some other black men (women) posting in this section. I was getting tired of people acting like everything I write is so off the wall and absurd simply because no one else was responding.
[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
I’m sorry, but again, if you choose to wear clothes you like but dislike the message you’re sending, it’s too bad - and you bear at least as much responsibility, if not more, as the person reacting to how you are presenting yourself.
Professor X wrote:
I think you miss the point we are making. There is no negative association in the young black community. That association is the construct of a much older generation or a population of mostly white Americans. I doubt even most Hispanics hold the same view. That means maybe much of white America should stop believing that the standards they set are universal and that everyone else should just get in line or shut up.[/quote]
It doesn’t matter whether there is a negative association in the young black community. It matters if there is a negative association in the community at large - particularly if you’re going to be upset by the community at large acting on that negative association. BTW, I invite any adults, over age 30 or so, from the Hispanic, Asian or any immigrant communities to please weigh in on how baggy hip-hop wear on young males tends to be viewed.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You also miss the outfit I described earlier is often only seen as “thug wear” if a black person is wearing it.[/quote]
I think I missed the part where you proved that was the case. I would dispute that notion, based on my own experiences.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
If I decided I was comfortable dressing like a skin head because I was really into punk rock, and you reacted based on the fact you assumed I was into skinhead stuff, that would be more on me than on you.
Professor X wrote:
Ridiculous. Hip Hop styles span every race and nationality. There are kids in China right now dressed like The Game. Comparing something specifically worn by a small segment of the population with a UNIVERSAL negative connotation is NOT the same.
Why did that even need an explanation?[/quote]
Maybe because you’re wrong, and making a lot of unwarranted assumptions about universal connotations.
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Race isn’t even close to being the biggest stumbling block for blacks. You will never close the achievment gap with a 70.7% illegitimacy rate (26.6 for non-hispanic whites). Ever.
Don’t you think you’re putting the cart before the horse?
No.
Long live conviction.
And its close ally ,the closed mind.[/quote]
What are you talking about? Broken homes have a huge impact on negative social/health stats. From violence, drugs, educational aheivment, etc.) At 70%, the upcoming generation of blacks are in a world of hurt. And isn’t because of the white man.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The difference is, some of what you’ve written isn’t even correct. It would take one ignorant fucker to go to a job interview dressed like he just left his girl’s house and dressed in the car. That didn’t stop you from generalizing that “most blacks” do just that.
It is, however, very correct about how many white people exercise “caution” and who they direct it towards. In fact, most who actually debated that aspect proved this in the other thread.
I have no doubt that whites use extra caution when passing a black guy dressed in gangsta wear on the street. I think you have the crimes rates among blacks to blame for that. Just a generalization, regardless if you are a criminal or not. The statistics show this.
And you’re right, it does take an ignorant mother fucker to go to a job interview like that. So why do people do it?
If you don’t think they do, then hear me out. A black guy with only a highschool diploma can get any job interview a white guy with the same qualifications could get. So why does the white have a better job? He presents himself better. So while the black guy may have not gone to the interview in a shirt 6 times too big, there was something about his appearance/image/the way he conducted himself that made the employer hire the white dude instead. If you want to cry racism every time something like this happens, well then you’re digging your own grave and will not overcome these obstacles.[/quote]
I’m speechless.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The difference is, some of what you’ve written isn’t even correct. It would take one ignorant fucker to go to a job interview dressed like he just left his girl’s house and dressed in the car. That didn’t stop you from generalizing that “most blacks” do just that.
It is, however, very correct about how many white people exercise “caution” and who they direct it towards. In fact, most who actually debated that aspect proved this in the other thread.
I have no doubt that whites use extra caution when passing a black guy dressed in gangsta wear on the street. I think you have the crimes rates among blacks to blame for that. Just a generalization, regardless if you are a criminal or not. The statistics show this.
And you’re right, it does take an ignorant mother fucker to go to a job interview like that. So why do people do it?
If you don’t think they do, then hear me out. A black guy with only a highschool diploma can get any job interview a white guy with the same qualifications could get. So why does the white have a better job? He presents himself better. So while the black guy may have not gone to the interview in a shirt 6 times too big, there was something about his appearance/image/the way he conducted himself that made the employer hire the white dude instead. If you want to cry racism every time something like this happens, well then you’re digging your own grave and will not overcome these obstacles.[/quote]
This may surprise you (because you seem blind to a lot of things) but there are white people (quite a few) who are more cautious of black men regardless of what they wear.
Ask a black man from New York how much trouble he has finding a cab and if it is because he is “dressed like a thug”.
The fact that you are still sticking to some fantasy where most black people dress ridiculously for job interviews and THAT is why we have been held back is too ridiculous for words.
Hmmm…I’m going to be less successful at 11am…
[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
I’m speechless.
[/quote]
I honestly didn’t know people actually thought like that until I read this thread.
I really still can’t believe it.
then more successful at 3pm
[quote]
btm62 wrote:
As far as rap and hip hop and that whole culture. It is SHIT!
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The whole culture is shit?! Oh goodness, I don’t even know how to respond to that.[/quote]
I agree, that’s a massive generalization - and those are almost always wrong…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
If I decided I was comfortable dressing like a skin head because I was really into punk rock, and you reacted based on the fact you assumed I was into skinhead stuff, that would be more on me than on you.
Ridiculous. Hip Hop styles span every race and nationality. There are kids in China right now dressed like The Game. Comparing something specifically worn by a small segment of the population with a UNIVERSAL negative connotation is NOT the same.
Why did that even need an explanation?[/quote]
Well, for one, I don’t know shit about what’s going on in other countries and don’t care to know. How many people do you know who know/care about what people in China are dressing like? I care about what’s going on here, in America. The negative connotations associated with gangsta wear are real. You wear it, you must accept what goes along with it, because it’s not going to change, unless blacks make changes to their image.
And even white kids who wear the same crap 3 sizes too big are still referred to as wearing thug wear. And anyone who dresses like that has the same negative image, so there isn’t even a double standard there.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The difference is, some of what you’ve written isn’t even correct. It would take one ignorant fucker to go to a job interview dressed like he just left his girl’s house and dressed in the car. That didn’t stop you from generalizing that “most blacks” do just that.
It is, however, very correct about how many white people exercise “caution” and who they direct it towards. In fact, most who actually debated that aspect proved this in the other thread.
I have no doubt that whites use extra caution when passing a black guy dressed in gangsta wear on the street. I think you have the crimes rates among blacks to blame for that. Just a generalization, regardless if you are a criminal or not. The statistics show this.
And you’re right, it does take an ignorant mother fucker to go to a job interview like that. So why do people do it?
If you don’t think they do, then hear me out. A black guy with only a highschool diploma can get any job interview a white guy with the same qualifications could get. So why does the white have a better job? He presents himself better. So while the black guy may have not gone to the interview in a shirt 6 times too big, there was something about his appearance/image/the way he conducted himself that made the employer hire the white dude instead. If you want to cry racism every time something like this happens, well then you’re digging your own grave and will not overcome these obstacles.[/quote]
And how exactly does he present himself better? If anything when the Black man shows up he’s probably more eager to get the job in the first place…If one goes on a job interview and has the sense to dress for it, then believe me, he has the sense not to go all ebonics and scowl at the prospective employer.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Hmmm…I’m going to be less successful at 11am…[/quote]
Shit, can he be more successful considering his background? I don’t see someone wanting to be like Puff daddy or Jay Z as being a negative, especially since both men are educated and have basically changed the face of music and even fashion.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Race isn’t even close to being the biggest stumbling block for blacks. You will never close the achievment gap with a 70.7% illegitimacy rate (26.6 for non-hispanic whites). Ever.
Don’t you think you’re putting the cart before the horse?
No.
Long live conviction.
And its close ally ,the closed mind.
What are you talking about? Broken homes have a huge impact on negative social stats. [/quote]
Yes they do.As race and economics have a huge impact on why the rate of broken homes is so much higher in certain populations.
what I was referring to is how you cannot cherry pick a particular issue without adressing the reasons and causation of that particular state of affairs.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Hmmm…I’m going to be less successful at 11am…[/quote]
Would keep an eye on him.