What Price for White Skin?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
221

[quote]Agressive Napkin wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
I love how you guys point out all the exceptions and refuse to look at the majorities. Puffy and Jay Z have had great success doing what they do. So you want every black kid in America to look up to them, as if they have a good shot to be as successful as them? Why not look up to someone with more reasonable goals?

It’s funny that so many say that blacks shouldn’t look up to the likes of Jay-Z, but turn around and praise Bill Cosby. Why? They’re both entertainers with levels of success that most, black, white, or other, will never reach.

Kids today are just stupid. Society just values different things. Even in the last 5 years, I’ve noticed lots of change with our youth. It seems we value money, clothes, cars and sex appeal more than holding any value in say, honor, hard work, honesty and individualism.

A lot of people associate black rappers as being gangster. But I’m willing to bet people dont associate Eminem or another white rapper with being gangster. Why I wonder???

Yes they do.[/quote]

If anything, they’ll look at the white guy as being a “wannabe” and the black guy as the “real thing”. This is the flawed perception and automatic judgement that comes from people and that’s what I’m talking about. I think the whole gangsta thing has been played out to death personally. That whole thing has long come and gone…

222

If you act like a victim all of your life you will always be the victim. There is no doubt that there is inequality throughout the U.S and it will never go away. The inequality is not exclusive to any one group either. The earlier you accept this the better. All you can do is use all of your resources and do the best you can (I hate to say “do your best,” but it is true).

223

Jesus, when a thread is on fire you can’t keep up.

All this said, I’m starting to learn that stats are crap. I’m reminded of the last girl I talked to who told me that women only make 75 cents to every dollar a man makes. I then asked her what her major was. She said, “Elementary education.” I grabbed the first guy that walked by and asked what his degree was in. “Chemistry,” was his reply. Guess which one of those two are going to make more money?

This exact scene played itself out yesterday. I was at the University bookstore buying my cap and gown and there was a guy and girl in front of me. The girl, when prompted by the guy handing out the tassels, announced that she was getting her masters in social work or something like that. The guy in front of me was getting his bachelor’s in mechanical engineering. My bet is on the mech E guy making more money.

So is it with race. Take any science 101 class and they’ll tell you that corellation does not equal causation. Let me raise a child, black or white and he’ll turn out a winner in life. Let a jackass going to the good reverend Wright’s church raise a child, black or white and it’ll turn out a loser.

Now I’m not black so I cannot tell you all the challenges that black Americans face. But when I was stationed in Hawaii I went to a black baptist church every Sunday for a year. I used to go out and sing with them in Waikiki on the occasional Saturday night and got laughed at by some fellow Marines. But those people I went to church with were good folks and they struck me as people on equal footing with white Americans.

This game of life is all about planting ourselves in fertile soil and surrounding ourselves with winners. Do that and you’ll be all right. It seems to me that these problems are all cultural. This isn’t a question of black vs. white. It seems a question of popular black culture vs. popular white culture. If you’re a black American dumb enough to buy into popular black culture, then you will not succeed. If you’re a white American dumb enough to buy into popular white culture (TV & minivans) you’ll make more money but be equally insignificant. If you’re a black or white American willing to be your own man then you’ll make it.

mike

224

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Qaash wrote:
streamline wrote:

Basically it comes down to, if you really want it go and get it, don’t whine or whimper do what has to be done. Don’t however think anyone is going to help. This kind of success has to be achieved through personal drive and desire to reach the top.

On this we can agree. No one is disagreeing about the rules of the game…as long as the rules stay the same across the board.

Where do you find the rulebook?

At the risk of sounding like a cliche’, life is not fair. Everyone gets screwed at least once. I’m not saying this to gloss over the crap the black community has had to deal with in the past.

I think you have to pull your nose out of the rulebook, and throw the finger at it, regardless of color, if you want to succeed.

Eli Whitney, GW Carver, Thurgood Marshall, Clarence Thomas, and Condi Rice - love them or hate them - none of of them played by the rules, or let the level of the playing field stop them from getting to where they wound up.

I really think that waiting for a level playing field is an exercise in futility.

[/quote]

Very true, my post was directed at those who claimed a level playing field. They request conformity with the promise of acceptance but again reading through here, I know that even then much wouldn’t change. So frankly, I don’t worry about it, I do what is necessary to attain my own success in life.

225

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

[/quote]

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.

226

[quote]Joe D. wrote:
…
What strikes me from these threads is that the younger white generations seemingly do not feel responsible for the treatment/position of the black community in the US in previous years.

…[/quote]

Why would I be responsible for the actions of others? Especially before I was born?

Why would anyone expect me to?

227

[quote]Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.[/quote]

This is what I don’t understand about the white folk as a group. I have never been afraid of the black man. I have always gravitated towards them, or maybe it is the other way around. But all through my time in the military, my best friends were black.

I got a phone call the other day from an old army buddy I had not seen, or heard from in 23 years. He was from inner-city Philly. We talked for about an hour, and by the end - he was making fun of my whiteness, and I was making fun of his blackness. But we are friends. Does that make me part of the white problem?

I guess my view of race relations is severely jaded, or my knowledge of how whites think of blacks is tainted because I was never allowed to think, or act like I was any better off than they were.

And this is coming from a guy from small town Texas.

228

[quote]Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.[/quote]

Some peope will always be racist. Fuck them.

229

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If the majority truly feel that way, and the goal is to be seen as an individual and not as part of a group, why are there so many stats flying around about how “blacks” commit more crime or how “blacks” don’t graduate from college or don’t stay married, or any other lines of bullshit designed to make it seem like our position as a group is so clueless and independent of outside influences?

What the fuck is all the group think all about? Yeah, there are stats concerning groups. It’s what people do - group shit together. But to be imprisoned by how others group you is a voluntary action on the part of the groupee. How does this escape you? Especially you, of all people? There’s “what it seems like” and there’s what is.

It is a fact that, in majority, the social situation of blacks is hugely influenced by the last 50 years or more.
You miss the point. Most people who achieve any level of success hold similar views. However, in politics and nationally in society, blacks are constantly informed about how blacks aren’t doing well. Every stat known to man is tossed at us as if we all live in the same house and eat the same food. We are constantly looked at as representations of an entire race and whether you accept it or not, even if we attempt to ignore it, that stress still exists and has for a very long time.

My mom only raised two kids, not a few million.

Therefore, if the goal is truly for that to stop, then the negative stereotypes (blacks dress like thugs at interviews and they all watch BET while eating fried chicken and walking out on their families) and the negative group stats NEED TO END.

Society can’t have it both ways. It can’t point out faults and hold every black man as an image of those faults and then also act like it is hands off when it comes to where the responsibility falls.

Either we all form this society and ALL hold some responsibility for where it is, how it got there and where it is headed…or we all DON’T. Which is it?[/quote]

I can only be responsible for my part of society. There is nothing I can do to change the past. I had no part in any societal interactions until 1971. I lived through forced busing, but I had no say in the matter. You did what you were told to do. Should I accept responsibility for it? Why? How?

I was old enough to watch “Roots” when it it was on TV as an original mini-series. I cried for a damn week because it was beyond my comprehension that one human being could treat another human being like they did.

Now before you go off and tell me that watching a tv show is hardly the same thing as living it - you have to understand that I was in a predominantly minority junior high with a large portion being black. I can remember “Roots” week very vividly in my head. I sat in the lunch room looking at the black kids trying to reconcile what I saw on TV with where I was. That’s pretty heady shit for 7th grader in 1977 whose main concern was playing baseball and trying to figure out a way to get LuNell Herschberger to even notice I was alive.

If taking responsibility for the past means never being a party to repeating it - then maybe I qualify. Living the childhood I did molded my thinking that the black is absolutely no different than me. Well, save for the goofy shit you guys say.

All of that to ask this of you: Do an old man a favor and spell out what it is you want, and how it is going to change anything. I don’t want any tertiary opining - tell me like I am a 3rd grader.

230

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.

Some peope will always be racist. Fuck them.[/quote]

True, but what he said was more bigoted than racist…to me there is a distinction…I don’t know if he has claimed he is superior because he’s white, so I won’t label him a racist. However, it is definitely a bigots standpoint that he has taken…even so, I was still surprised when I read it.

231

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If the majority truly feel that way, and the goal is to be seen as an individual and not as part of a group, why are there so many stats flying around about how “blacks” commit more crime or how “blacks” don’t graduate from college or don’t stay married, or any other lines of bullshit designed to make it seem like our position as a group is so clueless and independent of outside influences?

What the fuck is all the group think all about? Yeah, there are stats concerning groups. It’s what people do - group shit together. But to be imprisoned by how others group you is a voluntary action on the part of the groupee. How does this escape you? Especially you, of all people? There’s “what it seems like” and there’s what is.

It is a fact that, in majority, the social situation of blacks is hugely influenced by the last 50 years or more.
You miss the point. Most people who achieve any level of success hold similar views. However, in politics and nationally in society, blacks are constantly informed about how blacks aren’t doing well. Every stat known to man is tossed at us as if we all live in the same house and eat the same food. We are constantly looked at as representations of an entire race and whether you accept it or not, even if we attempt to ignore it, that stress still exists and has for a very long time.

My mom only raised two kids, not a few million.

Therefore, if the goal is truly for that to stop, then the negative stereotypes (blacks dress like thugs at interviews and they all watch BET while eating fried chicken and walking out on their families) and the negative group stats NEED TO END.

Society can’t have it both ways. It can’t point out faults and hold every black man as an image of those faults and then also act like it is hands off when it comes to where the responsibility falls.

Either we all form this society and ALL hold some responsibility for where it is, how it got there and where it is headed…or we all DON’T. Which is it?

I can only be responsible for my part of society. There is nothing I can do to change the past. I had no part in any societal interactions until 1971. I lived through forced busing, but I had no say in the matter. You did what you were told to do. Should I accept responsibility for it? Why? How?

I was old enough to watch “Roots” when it it was on TV as an original mini-series. I cried for a damn week because it was beyond my comprehension that one human being could treat another human being like they did.

Now before you go off and tell me that watching a tv show is hardly the same thing as living it - you have to understand that I was in a predominantly minority junior high with a large portion being black. I can remember “Roots” week very vividly in my head. I sat in the lunch room looking at the black kids trying to reconcile what I saw on TV with where I was. That’s pretty heady shit for 7th grader in 1977 whose main concern was playing baseball and trying to figure out a way to get LuNell Herschberger to even notice I was alive.

If taking responsibility for the past means never being a party to repeating it - then maybe I qualify. Living the childhood I did molded my thinking that the black is absolutely no different than me. Well, save for the goofy shit you guys say.

All of that to ask this of you: Do an old man a favor and spell out what it is you want, and how it is going to change anything. I don’t want any tertiary opining - tell me like I am a 3rd grader. [/quote]

This is what I’m referring to when I say my generation. Most whites that I know who were born in the 70’s and beyond see blacks as equals and in that way at least things are getting better.

232

[quote]Qaash wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.

Some peope will always be racist. Fuck them.

True, but what he said was more bigoted than racist…to me there is a distinction…I don’t know if he has claimed he is superior because he’s white, so I won’t label him a racist. However, it is definitely a bigots standpoint that he has taken…even so, I was still surprised when I read it.[/quote]

I don’t know how bigoted the statement is. I came from generations of white trash. My dad was the one to break the cycle, and he told me the same thing: “you have to be better than everyone else because of where you came from”.

I tell my kids the same thing.

In 20 years, there will be 4 or 5 generations of my family removed from the embarrassment of being labeled white trash. Maybe it is a little bigoted, but there is no arguing with the effectiveness of such a mindset.

233

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.

Some peope will always be racist. Fuck them.

True, but what he said was more bigoted than racist…to me there is a distinction…I don’t know if he has claimed he is superior because he’s white, so I won’t label him a racist. However, it is definitely a bigots standpoint that he has taken…even so, I was still surprised when I read it.

I don’t know how bigoted the statement is. I came from generations of white trash. My dad was the one to break the cycle, and he told me the same thing: “you have to be better than everyone else because of where you came from”.

I tell my kids the same thing.

In 20 years, there will be 4 or 5 generations of my family removed from the embarrassment of being labeled white trash. Maybe it is a little bigoted, but there is no arguing with the effectiveness of such a mindset. [/quote]

I called it bigoted because of his specific statement…
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

My father raised me in the same manner, do better than I did and I will pass that on to my own children some day but not to make the bigots out there feel more comfortable that WE exist.

234

[quote]Qaash wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.

Some peope will always be racist. Fuck them.

True, but what he said was more bigoted than racist…to me there is a distinction…I don’t know if he has claimed he is superior because he’s white, so I won’t label him a racist. However, it is definitely a bigots standpoint that he has taken…even so, I was still surprised when I read it.

I don’t know how bigoted the statement is. I came from generations of white trash. My dad was the one to break the cycle, and he told me the same thing: “you have to be better than everyone else because of where you came from”.

I tell my kids the same thing.

In 20 years, there will be 4 or 5 generations of my family removed from the embarrassment of being labeled white trash. Maybe it is a little bigoted, but there is no arguing with the effectiveness of such a mindset.

I called it bigoted because of his specific statement…
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

My father raised me in the same manner, do better than I did and I will pass that on to my own children some day but not to make the bigots out there feel more comfortable that WE exist.[/quote]

I’ve been writing just that. Yes, I do believe much of “white America” truly feels deep down just like the statement you just quoted. The thing that makes it worse is they don’t see anything wrong with that view point. For me to be seen as equal, TRULY equal, I’ve got to better than every single one of my peers. I grew up in Texas and I know for a fact that this holds true.

So, how do they keep claiming we have achieved equality already?

235

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
then more successful at 3pm

Wouldn’t keep an eye on him. [/quote]

I agree, looks like the multi-millionaire ceo that he is. Clothing bias, yes. Racial bias, no.

That pic of the dumbass white kid with the gangster shit on. Yep, keep an eye on him too. Probably more so than a similarily dressed black kid. He has an image he is trying to live up to and may likely behave accordingly.

236

[quote]Professor X wrote:

So, how do they keep claiming we have achieved equality already?[/quote]

I don’t think anyone has claimed this yet. All I’m saying (I’m not going to speak for anyone else) is that complaining about not being successful when you’re unwilling to play by society’s rules is not the best way to go.

Sure, the people that rainjack stated earlier have done it their own way. Some white people have done it their own way. However, more often than not, it doesn’t work.

237

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:

I’m speechless.

I honestly didn’t know people actually thought like that until I read this thread.

I really still can’t believe it.

That’s one hell of an argument from you both. Maybe one of you fine gentleman can enlighten me. I’m trying to be pretty open minded here, but the race card has been pulled so many times in front of my own eyes when nothing was wrong, that I think pulling the race card in itself is a little tired.[/quote]

Would you please consider changing your avatar? It really bothers me.

238

[quote]Qaash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

Yep. To make racism go away, black people have to show they are better than whites: more educated, more polite, more well-spoken. Only when the white community HAS A REASON TO NOT BE RACIST will racism stop.

You are the first white man to openly say what I’ve known my entire adult life…so, we have to be better than you in every way so you won’t be afraid and be more relaxed around us in your community’s? I know from growing up in the suburbs that that isn’t the case. We move to the suburbs and the whites started moving out or panicked that their property values were going to suffer because the blacks had moved in. Sometimes, no matter what we do, there are white people who are always going to be nervous around us, so, I don’t worry about them. I stated earlier that being from NYC has given me a false perspective on the state of things…my generation deals with less and less of your line of thinking. If I encounter this, it’s usually and older white person or someone who is not from NY…the internet is a wonderful thing.[/quote]

You have to prove yourself to me, for me to accept you as an equal. To do that, you have to show up for work ON TIME, you have to be polite when you don’t want to, you have to show me high competence in what you do (which for me is teaching). I expect the best — piddling around and making excuses doesn’t cut it.

Then, to eliminate racism, you have to OVERWHELMINGLY show that racism is simply stupid. You have to overcome the media portrayal of black people as murderous thugs who have no interest in education. You have to actually marry and stay married to the mother of your children. You have to drop the crack pipe and pick up a book instead. You have to literally laugh Pastor Wright into the dustbin of history.

In other words, YOU have to change. You have to give me so many reasons to accept you as my equal that I have no alternative BUT to accept you in that way.

I’ll be waiting…

239

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Professor X wrote:

So, how do they keep claiming we have achieved equality already?

I don’t think anyone has claimed this yet. All I’m saying (I’m not going to speak for anyone else) is that complaining about not being successful when you’re unwilling to play by society’s rules is not the best way to go.

Sure, the people that rainjack stated earlier have done it their own way. Some white people have done it their own way. However, more often than not, it doesn’t work.[/quote]

Rainjack also asked for the rule book…

240

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

You have to prove yourself to me, for me to accept you as an equal. To do that, you have to show up for work ON TIME, you have to be polite when you don’t want to, you have to show me high competence in what you do (which for me is teaching). I expect the best — piddling around and making excuses doesn’t cut it.

Then, to eliminate racism, you have to OVERWHELMINGLY show that racism is simply stupid. You have to overcome the media portrayal of black people as murderous thugs who have no interest in education. You have to actually marry and stay married to the mother of your children. You have to drop the crack pipe and pick up a book instead. You have to literally laugh Pastor Wright into the dustbin of history.

In other words, YOU have to change. You have to give me so many reasons to accept you as my equal that I have no alternative BUT to accept you in that way.

I’ll be waiting…

[/quote]

I’d ignore this, he’s known to troll just to spark a reaction.