Hi Ellington,
Over the years there have been some tremendous and well publicised high profile successes with HIT such as the Colorado Experiment, Eddie Mueller, Keith Whitley, Tyler and others (including myself). However there have also been some dismal failures such as Boyer Coe in 1982 and Eddie Robinson shortly after.
Based on what you have learned since what would you say are your top 5 learning points from these hits and misses and what would you do differently (if anything) given the same opportunities again?
Jeff60,
It is revealing and incredible that an expert of Dr. Dardenās stature has managed to adapt and continue to gain wisdom. He (and Jones) [r]evolutionized exercise to the masses in the 70ās and Doctor Darden has continued to deliver newer, safer and more efficient concepts into the 20ās. Very few, if any, can claim this place in history.
Boyer Coe! Seem to be a great bodybuilder (best arms ever) and also a true gentleman, based on some interviews Iāve seen on the net. What was his story with Nautilus? Where did it go wrong? Someone mentioned something like the second Colorado experiment? In his interviews he has stated that he never were fond of the pace (lack of rest) in Arthur Jones routine. Whatās the story? What happened in 1982? Boyer has earned the right to his own threadā¦
Iāve also wondered about Boyer Coe and his dealings with Arthur Jones. Iāve read and listened to quite a few interviews and such on YouTube and you can sort of read between the lines to see the differences of opinions and friction between the two but I would love to know more. Where that information would come from who knows ? Iām guessing it would have to come from someone close to Boyer? Very few large successful bodybuilders who pretty much built their physique before Jones came along wanted to stay with him or train his way. They knew what got them to where they were and it wasnāt Jones way.
Scott
Thereās an interview out there with Boyer. He said he used something similar to a Dorian Yates split routine with very good success for his Masters Mr. O.run in 1994 if I recall.
I have been thinking about Boyer Coe quite a bit lately for some reason and Iām beginning to think his success comes from his early years doing tons of chins and his high school years where he pushed himself to bench 400 +pounds while in high school. The chins built his lats , bicep braci parts of his arms and the bench press built his triceps. Iām thinking itās those basic chins/bench exercises that made him more than any machine could.
Scott
And I wish I could go back 40 years to take advantage of it when I still was young enough to pile on some muscle, ha ha! Iām so envious of these youngsters who can start right off with this great program.
Scott
In the end, training reveals your genetic potential. No magic training methods, as far as I can tell. What you get is what you get. But you already know thatā¦
Your last book (Killing Fat) seems to have been where you introduced the 30-10-30 protocol. I donāt have a copy, but one Amazon reviewer raves about the good results he got from doing 30-10-30 once a week. So am I correct in assuming that the 3x per week training, de-emphasis on failure, and emphasis on metabolic conditioning all came after Killing Fat was published?
== Scott==
No thereās no magic training methods but I do know thereās a big difference between training dumb and training smart. I have no idea how many workouts I did where I killed myself every workout. More than not I probably dug holes too deep to recover from. They were great workouts and my muscles were worked to the hilt but I think that was training dumb! Iād love to go back and try this 30 10 30 and see what difference it would make?
Agreed 100%. Iāve been training consistently for 31 years (started right after I graduated high school). Iāve done just about everything under the sun. All of that experimentation was good and made things interesting and provided learnings, but what I would call ābasic stuffā that you can actually recover from is most key. I do believe in something reasonably hard, brief, and infrequentā¦but not taken to what I would call extremes and many ways to do it. Change is fun too especially for the mind. For me right now, that just consists of a few āgoodā sets per muscle once a weekā¦sometimes every 5 or so days. Hitting my home gym usually around 3 days a week.
I think you have said that you trained inconsistently in the past. So if you find this more enjoyable and that leads to more consistent training, that alone would be worth something. The workout you do regularly is more valuable than the ātheoretically betterā workout that you wonāt stick to.
One reason Iāve trained more consistently these past many months is that Iāve been stuck home because of the damn pandemic. Iāve always loved working out , progress or not , usually not ,but I have to say I loved doing many sets to pump up the muscles and feeling sore after a workout. Is that sensible , heck no, but at least when Iād get sore I figured I actually hit the muscle hard enough, thanks Jones , probably too hard to recover from and I could never stand to wait 4 or 5 days or a week or more to recover.
Scott
== Scott==
Iām curious as to what you mean by dismal failure ? Do you mean they failed to fit in with Nautilus or Jones? From what I recall there were very few individuals like Dr Darden who were able to withstand the overbearing onslaught of Jones. It would be interesting to see how many he fired or drove away vrs how many managed to stick around to the end . Iām sure there were quite a few āchimpanzees ā that hung around him at the end , ha ha!
Every once in a while I will do something like thatā¦CTF-like Itās fun and exhilarating for a while as a change and the muscles do seem to āperkā up a bit (for whatever the reason which is debatable). But after a while, I find myself feeling as if I am losing some kind of workout efficiency or it becomes laborious and find myself coming down to around 3 or set sets using a little more load by comparison.