What is the Link Between Tren and Insulin Sensitivity?

I was wondering if we could talk tren and insulin for a second. I have tried to dig around on the subject, but I cannot find much except anecdotes. Nothing scientifically concrete.

So yesterday, I was having a day off my diet. I have to cut some weight for my powerlifting meet but yesterday, I wanted something different. I fancied a big bowl of sugary cereal and two thick white bun cheese and avocado sandwiches (this was supposed to be meal 1 lol). Ok cool. I have had this stuff before without much hassle. But yesterday, holy fuck, was not sure what was going on. Literally 10 minutes after finishing, I went so weak, so hypo, could literally not feel my body walking around. Went terribly sluggish, super dry mouth the entire day, cloudy head, felt like I was about to slip into a deep coma. I did not want to move. Now, I have had a few days when I have eaten something off plan and I have felt a bit tired and sluggish afterwards, but this was on a whole other level. It literally finished me off for the entire day. I was a wrecked zombie for the rest of the day. Tried eating a bit of indian at the end of the day and literally the same thing happened (just not as severe). I didn’t even want to try our originally planned pizza night after this because I was not sure if it would happen again.

On my normal food plan, its simply some pasta, veggies, brown bread, cottage cheese, eggs and lean beef. No after meal problems with these.

So what happened? Is tren starting to mess with my insulin sensitivity? A massive pool of sugar stuck in my blood after this? Or, is tren enhancing the sensitivity of insulin so much that it shuttles all this crap so efficiently and rapidly into your muscles you get a major crash afterwards? I am not really sure of the answer.

The only reason I ask is because after my 24 hour weigh in, I have 24 hours to regain some lost weight, water, carbs etc and I if what happened yesterday, happens after my weigh in, I wont have the energy to eat before the meet.

Anyone have any ideas for this? @unreal24278 @zeek1414 @Singhbuilder

I did however come across this study in RATS. The results seem pretty interesting. Some stuff on insulin resistance with regards to tren.

https://watermark.silverchair.com/endo0368.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAl4wggJaBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJLMIICRwIBADCCAkAGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMSYQ8oGa_PXbP401OAgEQgIICEeKXoS2kEMVgVoMF9lQMu7CTvbXfjjFvyAufcI4_v1adbHmdHUvjX23-8yP4xxsMFcc6Ry0ea8FM7WAQNZGLfgPIFXJk1N-rlp1jlnOuj__JZ9RWR98bSAi0fCYzdunrnPnJB6nPyHcJE45pySEu3jcdG13_KvrmAubftqg630fSP9rETH16KGUEueKUueGgGbErXFicBaOVwlucWW7kMwtjinZ0g_qa3rGK-1BtGGiWS-VrzE_Unk5Cc5jp8cSJURj11rCGRf0ERrzNQp9gOGdg-eEcCVF9f_B99fMQ0ivi3y4KLi2IsRIv-pADNbUPqlsc9NilkhdXItxjO6SpdJQYTA7W4EMLVp1peRmrEV3zJ9z8-pW41YjoFcxFeNQvAadqFm-FqvhhWGA1KAlRxQgoJ9yw49K4xSCMP0SEQoLfezkQ_tlvr_Qvf_QbHKL6KWbwFomcVdXXvErpM4OrA16US4tr99R-2e5lGJTdVkXFvNF4LfKLpjLny7f1NhTIQXoW3Ro4SfJk3Rb3DsUTiFO748hivL0tixoaJ5bz0RxPeLNuupyOeqwV9ELvYEvgcdDtC3OJj9MQKB-1e9zQsgtRHEnOv9Aw18beeGkQSAT8JIfXekDwzn39f5XQXIR1tM7bNJuHYxpcej-dQQ9gwPp0XkOquYQ39paYO8ewSIiVWcvZ5urdsRuSEBkyuw8UjHU

If you don’t figure it out, tread very lightly. Hypoglycemic shock is, i believe, something that can literally kill you. I’d consider switching your steroid of choice, as tough a decision as that may be.

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Yes, yesterday was the first day ever, a cheat literally destroyed me for the entire day.

I think the first step is you should start monitoring your blood sugar. Get your morning fasted, pre meal, 1 and 2 hour post meal. Make sure your not becoming insulin resistant and get an idea of how your body is processing carbs around different meals.

Personally I don’t get any sides like this from tren but just generally speaking if I have a super high sugar/carb meal I feel a bit sluggish for a couple hours but nothing that sounds as severe as this

I’ve seen the studies suggesting trenbolone enhanced insulin response in rodents (this would mean tren increases insulin sensitivity), this doesn’t equate to reality at all, the opposite being true.

My friend, this is not shit to play around with. The only advice I’m comfortable giving you at the moment is… drop the sdrol, drop or at least lower tren dose

You’ll not playing with Fire at this point… you’re playing with imminent death… do whatever you want, but know adding more or maintaining AAS dose at this point is a profoundly bad idea.

Response regarding glucose tolerance impairment and whether it happens at all is somewhat individualistic, genetics will play a large. If OP doesn’t get his blood sugar under control (being that it’s this out of whack, death may be a concept all too real, if it’s kept at… regular type 2 diabetic quantities then lets say 10-15 years if constantly on a ton of gear

I’m taking a break from the forum for a few weeks, will post occasionally. Currently leaving AmStErDaM… what a cool place

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Ive never had any of the issues you speak of, even at 900mg Tren Ace so I can’t say. I would heed the advice of those more knowledgeable however, like @unreal24278

SB

Decreased glucose tolerance is a well documented side effect of many anabolics. Go on to mims, look at documented sides of oxandrolone/oxymetholone etc

Also were you on 900mg tren ace for months on end? Or just a few weeks prior to competition

Remember one mans medication can be another mans poison

@weightliftingwithoutlimits

What the others have said, you need to start monitoring your blood glucose levels.

Anecdotally, perhapse it was hyperglycemia? It can have many of the same initial symptoms as hypo.

You said it was a cheat day, were you fatigued from the day before or had a particular hard workout? Or the opposite and you took it easy and where fully recovered as far as muscle anabolism, and the cheat day was gunna be your re-feed/feel good?

No it was only a week or 2. Prior to that I was on 700mg for a few weeks.

SB

You need to remember OP who is experiencing these issues has been on (supposedly) 1000mg+ tren weekly for months, superdrol and god knows what else (prior thread contemplating using temazepam)… no judgement from me, just exclaiming it’s very possible there’s use of pharmaceuticals being left out

For all we know he could be using beta blockers or something too (which interferes with glucose tolerance), there are many compounding potential factors here.

But I’m 99.99 percent sure it’s the dose of tren

O for sure. Normal meals I have no problem. But if I eat something shitty or high sugary, holy fuck im knocked out.

Im dropping the superdrol. Havent really noticed much over the tren tbh.,

Reactive hypoglycemia perhaps?

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Side effects take a while to accumulate at times

Both sdrol and tren have fairly pronounced reputations for inducing what you’re experiencing. I mentioned to be careful prior to use in relation to implementing superdrol (I said watch out for hyper/hypoglycaemia), I believe I recommended monitoring blood sugar.

You aren’t invincible, you may think you are due to familial history, being (acutely) fine on high dosages but you need to think about long term or even intermediate repercussions. You’ve had a serious hypoglycaemic episode due to what I’m almost certain is uncontrolled type 2 diabeties, yet you’re adament a gram of tren is fine for you (long term).

At this point I’m bowing out, you do whatever you feel is best, whatever consequence arises isn’t my problem. When you arrive in the ER because shit has hit the fan (this is a when, not if at this point), don’t act like it wasn’t a premeditated event

I apologise for my attitude, I’m 100% being a dick right now. I don’t believe there is anything I can say or do that will stop you from systematically destroying yourself, and it enrages and upsets me to see someone other than myself who I care about (in terms of you’re health and well-being) indulge in relentless self destruction in terms of you’re physical, emotional and mental health and well-being, relationships with others and more. Perhaps I’m a hypocrite here, as I’m indulging in my fair share of self destructive behaviour here in Europe, but to equate my behaviour to the internal damage induced by 1 g tren (long term) I reckon perhaps three weeks of smoking three packs per day, snorting large amounts cocaine nightly whilst binge drinking whilst using MDMA on the weekends and eating fast food for every meal would equate to 2 months of 1000mg tren, high dose sdrol, test, uncontrolled blood sugar and letting BP run wild (unless hypertensive crisis occurs, then acutely extremely dangerous). This is purely a hypothetical example just to be clear, I haven’t been doing this in Europe haha. One can say “nope, the first scenario is more harmful”… and I’d disagree, I’d say with this level of PED use they’re about the same, esp if you’re brushing with the concept of inducing a diabetic coma.

I suppose what irritates me the most is the fact that you’ve decided to use (and I’m not going to judge or say you’re not doing the right thing, this is you’re individualistic choice) such high dosages prior to even going to you’re first meet. This game is a marathon, not a race and you’ve decided to haphazardly use an equivalent of 5g test + at a bodyweight of around 180-190 to progress, when you could’ve easily made progress (perhaps just as good if not better) at lower dosages. Then there’s the complications that arise from uncontrolled type 2 diabeties… some of these complications are just nasty…

You may need high dosages later on, but currently it appears you’re relying on drugs and ONLY drugs to progress, at this point in you’re career that hasn’t even taken off yet you’re dosing is absurd. You’d barely even completed you’re first cycle, and decided to instantly jump on enormous doses.

Yes, you can put up some damn good numbers, but without THAT dose of tren, where would you be? I hypothesise at my bodyweight, if I hopped on what you’re on and trained for strength I’d be smashing records for my age and weight class within 5 months or so. The amount of drugs you’re using will downregulate you’re AR quite a bit, and to continually progress (if reliant on drugs), you’ll need higher and higher dosages

What do you think you’ll be using in five years from now when you’re career takes off? Do you expect to make it to 30? At the moment, that may be a stretch… if you’re going to use high dosages like this you need to stop being so callous

REGULAR cardiac evaluations, monitoring of glucose, blood lipids, liver and renal function is imperative… if you can catch an issue before it becomes serious (unlike now), you have a far higher chance of getting out alive.

What you’re doing at the moment is “I want to be the best, so before I’ve competed and tried my hand in trying to make a career out of this I’m going to use the highest dose of drugs possible, without thinking about long term implications because yolo and I don’t particularly care if I die tomorrow”. The mentality you’ve acquired on tren has also been somewhat of an unhealthy transformation. It may take someone else to point it out to you… but you’re judgement/decision making at this point appears to be impaired.

The “but I want to compete” rhetoric is no excuse at this point… fine, you want to compete… use drugs, blast heavily even if that’s you’re motto, but the dosages you’re using now and the durations (wanting to cruise long term on a gram of tren… perhaps you’re using 1.5-2 grams now I don’t know) is overkill.

With anabolics as I’ve said before, the first perceivable sign of serious toxicity is unexpected, asymptomatic sudden cardiac death, a healthy lifestyle can only make up for so much, when you’ve got 50x natural male physiology running through you’re veins at all times the notion of longevity is well out the window. You have family, friends, a girlfriend and more… how do you think they’ll feel when you drop at a very young age? Not caring about this at all is a profoundly selfish ideology to have, however if this thought doesn’t phase you then it is what it is I guess.

You can be pissed off with me at this point for bringing these qualms to light, I just felt I had to get it off my chest. I don’t want to see you die, but at this point I don’t think there’s much I can do so I’m bowing out of the situation. If you were using these dosages a few years down the line I wouldn’t have a problem with it… but you’re career in powerlifting hasn’t even started yet

I like you, you seem like a cool dude. But I don’t think you’re realistically comprehending the consequences and sheer level of danger associated with you’re current situation

@Singhbuilder out of curiosity did you use 7-900mg tren before you’re first ever competition?

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O you are absolutely correct mate. I am sure I will look back and say to myself: what a stupid fuck. But I think 99% of us who started (well those who have competitive goals) ended up looking back and said: god I was stupid then.

But rest assured, I am not staying on tren for much longer. I think my body is telling me its time to end it. Nor would I want to tbh.

After this, its test only. Preferred the way I felt on test only anyways.

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Most kids look back and think this… it’s even worse for kids like me who may indulge in reckless or irresponsible behaviour as we know/have the insight to comprehend the potential consequence before and whilst we partake in whatever it is that is dangerous, reckless or irresponsible… some say the notion of having insight makes it better… I think it makes it worse.

Many kids don’t know what they’re doing is incredibly stupid… when I do something stupid… I’m well aware of the bad decision I’m making… so instead of looking back years later… I look at the present thinking “what the fuck am I doing”… it’s a very interesting thought process to have lol.

It’s imperative though that you live long enough to the point where you CAN look back, reminisce about you’re past, past decisions and laugh on it (even if you’re like on dialysis for kidney failure or something). At this point I’m worried that you won’t make it to that point… hell sometimes I worry about myself too with the situations I wind up in at times, perhaps a fatal accident or altercation (say I say the wrong thing to the wrong person at one of the dive bars I frequent on holiday etc) will end my life. We can never know for sure what will be the end of us… but we can show some degree of restraint, caution, preemptive thinking which will (hopefully) stop us making acutely life threatening decisions down the road

My first ever competition was as a natural. 157lbs on stage lol, but I was PEELED. That allowed me to get top 15 out of 45 with most competitors being on juice. That was a few years ago, I can’t imagine using 900mg Tren back then.

SB

@weightliftingwithoutlimits, what your describing is exactly what I experience and I am a diagnosed “reactive hypoglycemic”. It is not quite as dangerous as people here have let on if thats what your suffering from. It can and will lead to the shut down of your pancreas if not treated with dietary changes. The crashes can be damaging to the brain so tread carefully. Keto has been miraculous for my condition and ive lately been dabbling in targeted keto and cyclical keto. I react very well to dextrose pre wo and its helped me to put on weight. I tried doing a one day refeed and ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on white bread. Crashed within 3 hours. I did another refeed day and used plain oatmeal and had no issues. Moral of the story is I believe low glycemic index carbs dont trigger the same insulin response and your body has time to process the carbs without crashing. You should do a glucose tolerance test to verify whether or not this is what your experiencing. By the time you crash your blood sugar wont be as low. Once your hands are shaking its being caused by adrenaline and epinephrine dumps trying to save you by forcing your body to release or produce glucose.

This has been my experience exactly. Thank you for sharing. Oatmeal, pasta, brown bread, no problem. Fruit loops and white bread - I’m out. Which is why I suspected reactive hypoglycemia .

Reactive hypoglycemia makes sense since tren is known to suppress cortisol. Less cortisol, more insulin response. Which could account for the enhanced insulin response following injestion of dirty carbs.

Its a battle I fight every freaking day brother. Get it under control or your fucked. Ultra low carbs has dramatically increased my quality of life. I had no idea how bad carbs were effecting me. I’ve never been more shredded and muscular in my whole life

Special events, birthdays, Xmas etc do you participate in the high carb indulgence ? Take anything to help with those days or do you totally avoid mostly carbs these days?