When? Damn I guess it’s been a while since I picked up a new issue.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
When? Damn I guess it’s been a while since I picked up a new issue.[/quote]
That is why RX-muscle exists…because he and Romano got fired from MD. This happened about 2 months back or so.
This guy’s lats are unusual…the shape and density at that angle are both odd and impressive.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
Looked decent when he came in, then he just got weirder and weirder looking.
[/quote]
Albert Beckles comes to mind. Looked his best at 50+. And Bill Pearl was as massive as ever in his 40s. He’s still “big” as he’s hitting about 70 or so.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
!? 40 is when most peak…
Exactly. Look at Toney Freeman. The man has been bodybuilding for over 20 years but just now started turning heads at over the age of 40. Dexter Jackson is at least 42 right now. You don’t even reach that “dense” look until over the age of 35 for most of these guys. This isn’t pro football. You are not past your prime at 40 in bodybuilding. If anything, you are just hitting your stride.[/quote]
[quote]DH wrote:
This guy’s lats are unusual…the shape and density at that angle are both odd and impressive.
WS4JB wrote:
Looked decent when he came in, then he just got weirder and weirder looking.
[/quote]
His “thing” was mass when he came in, but then he became a part of that group that wanted to compete at 300, and they all fucked themselves up by doing so.
[quote]DH wrote:
Albert Beckles comes to mind. Looked his best at 50+. And Bill Pearl was as massive as ever in his 40s. He’s still “big” as he’s hitting about 70 or so.
Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
!? 40 is when most peak…
Exactly. Look at Toney Freeman. The man has been bodybuilding for over 20 years but just now started turning heads at over the age of 40. Dexter Jackson is at least 42 right now. You don’t even reach that “dense” look until over the age of 35 for most of these guys. This isn’t pro football. You are not past your prime at 40 in bodybuilding. If anything, you are just hitting your stride.
[/quote]
Once again, all AAS users. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but come on, at that age things just go down hill, it’s just how it works.
I follow bodybuilding and I am wholly aware that the peak age in the IFBB is in the 30’s and beyond for some.
[quote]Therizza wrote:
Wait, Palumbo doesn’t have a column in MD anymore?[/quote]
Where the hell have you been? The Blechman gave him and Romano the cock not too long ago.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
DH wrote:
Albert Beckles comes to mind. Looked his best at 50+. And Bill Pearl was as massive as ever in his 40s. He’s still “big” as he’s hitting about 70 or so.
Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
!? 40 is when most peak…
Exactly. Look at Toney Freeman. The man has been bodybuilding for over 20 years but just now started turning heads at over the age of 40. Dexter Jackson is at least 42 right now. You don’t even reach that “dense” look until over the age of 35 for most of these guys. This isn’t pro football. You are not past your prime at 40 in bodybuilding. If anything, you are just hitting your stride.
Once again, all AAS users. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but come on, at that age things just go down hill, it’s just how it works.
I follow bodybuilding and I am wholly aware that the peak age in the IFBB is in the 30’s and beyond for some. [/quote]
Wait, so you are actually claiming that late 30’s is only the peak for steroid users?
Dude, I usually don’t have a problem with anything you type, but you are way off base with this one.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
at that age things just go down hill, it’s just how it works.
[/quote]
I dunno - I’m 42 and making some of my best gains yet. I feel great, don’t have any issues with feeling like it’s any harder at this point than it was when I was your age. In fact, in some ways it’s easier. I don’t have issues with chronic fatigue or any problems recovering.
Hell, the only time I start feeling shitty is when I miss training for whatever reason…
I definitely don’t feel as if I’m “going downhill”…
the reason why layne norton has his pro card and kiyoshi does not is because kiyoshi is competing against non-natties in npc events while layne has his natural pro card, and attained that by competing against other natty guys.
Age isn’t what it used to be. People who are now around 40 are a lot younger looking and healthier than 40 year olds in the time of their parents or grandparents as long as they pay a little attention to all that’s been learned about general health.
Heck, my dad just turned 72 and he’s still doing 25 no-cheating pullups in a row and solid sets of weight training, not to mention being in amazing cardio-vascular health – blood pressure averages 115/65 with a resting pulse of 50 beats per minute. His dad, my grandfather, was a sick, weak man at the same age, and definitely had an ‘old man’ look while my father looks like he’s on the far end of middle age but doesn’t have the ‘falling apart’ look of someone most would really consider ‘old.’
My oldest brother, now in his mid 50’s, was still playing rugby at 40, and another brother won a national amateur greco-roman wrestling competition when he was around 44. Yeah, they might have to be a little extra careful about not getting injuries, but all three are good examples of how our residual views of age need to be seriously updated.
You know, if I had a time machine, I would definitely pull an “Are you Sarah Connor?” on the parents of Alexander the Great and Mozart. Those little pricks probably did more to create the western culture mythology of ‘you’re useless after 30’ than any other individuals.
[quote]LHT wrote:
You know, if I had a time machine, I would definitely pull an “Are you Sarah Connor?” on the parents of Alexander the Great and Mozart. Those little pricks probably did more to create the western culture mythology of ‘you’re useless after 30’ than any other individuals.[/quote]
Yeah damn that Mozart for not doing anything after he was dead at 35…
While I agree with X to some extent, I’m not sure using prof. bb as proof is valid. They probably have
higher hormone levels then the average person to begin with along with all of the other things that make them elite ie their bodies may be more efficient at turning calories into muscle etc.
At 35 I certainly know how to train a lot better than I did at 25 but for sure my recovery is not as good and my joints don’t allow me to go heavy for weeks on end. Everyone’s mileage probably varies with regards to this.
[quote]dropshot001 wrote:
the reason why layne norton has his pro card and kiyoshi does not is because kiyoshi is competing against non-natties in npc events while layne has his natural pro card, and attained that by competing against other natty guys.[/quote]
Um…no. He has definitely done natty comps. Musclemania, universe and all those are supposed to be natural.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
DH wrote:
Albert Beckles comes to mind. Looked his best at 50+. And Bill Pearl was as massive as ever in his 40s. He’s still “big” as he’s hitting about 70 or so.
Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
!? 40 is when most peak…
Exactly. Look at Toney Freeman. The man has been bodybuilding for over 20 years but just now started turning heads at over the age of 40. Dexter Jackson is at least 42 right now. You don’t even reach that “dense” look until over the age of 35 for most of these guys. This isn’t pro football. You are not past your prime at 40 in bodybuilding. If anything, you are just hitting your stride.
Once again, all AAS users. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but come on, at that age things just go down hill, it’s just how it works.
I follow bodybuilding and I am wholly aware that the peak age in the IFBB is in the 30’s and beyond for some.
Wait, so you are actually claiming that late 30’s is only the peak for steroid users?
Dude, I usually don’t have a problem with anything you type, but you are way off base with this one.[/quote]
I’m saying that’s usually when the peak occurs. Toney Freeman peaked late because he is tall and finally achieved enough mass to fill out his frame. Dexter “peaked” because Ronnie retired and Jay ruined his lines. Lots of these “peaks” are just coincidence because stiffer competition either retired or fucked up.
What I meant in relation to natural lifters is hormone imbalances start to occur as you age. Lower test levels, higher estrogen etc. That means you will not be building muscle as quickly. In reference to the average lifter (not elite BBer) I believe that once they have reached 30+ they now have the knowledge on how to most effectively build muscle. Take that knowledge and put it in a 20 year old and the results will be much greater, that’s all I’m saying.
Come to think about it, this trend of older not being better has been pretty prevalent in the elite bodybuilding circles. How many top pro’s can you name that once they hit their 30’s tried to push the envelope and fucked up with drugs or injuries and had to retire?
Dorian Yates-Drugs and some injuries (huge blocky waist toward the end of his career)
Flex Wheeler-Pushed the envelope too far on drugs and fucked himself up.
Nasser-very obvious synthol use in his shoulders and arms towards the end.
Cutler-Ruined his lines but is slowly fixing that
Ronnie-drug use/injuries
All of this happened LATE in their career’s.
I know there are a plenty more but this is just off the top of my head. The older guys who are doing awesome now are the ones who rode it out and didn’t go over board with drugs or were lucky enough to remain somewhat injury free. They were losing contests until the top guys got knocked off because of drug complications or injuries. This is pretty self explanatory and cannot be denied.
Peaks are the result of hard work meeting opportunity. Dexter’s biggest criticism for the past 5-6 years is that he always comes into the contest looking the same, phenomenal but not good enough to win the olympia. Once the big boys were done, his time came.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Come to think about it, this trend of older not being better has been pretty prevalent in the elite bodybuilding circles. How many top pro’s can you name that once they hit their 30’s tried to push the envelope and fucked up with drugs or injuries and had to retire?
Dorian Yates-Drugs and some injuries (huge blocky waist toward the end of his career)
Flex Wheeler-Pushed the envelope too far on drugs and fucked himself up.
Nasser-very obvious synthol use in his shoulders and arms towards the end.
Cutler-Ruined his lines but is slowly fixing that
Ronnie-drug use/injuries
All of this happened LATE in their career’s.
I know there are a plenty more but this is just off the top of my head. The older guys who are doing awesome now are the ones who rode it out and didn’t go over board with drugs or were lucky enough to remain somewhat injury free. They were losing contests until the top guys got knocked off because of drug complications or injuries. This is pretty self explanatory and cannot be denied.
Peaks are the result of hard work meeting opportunity. Dexter’s biggest criticism for the past 5-6 years is that he always comes into the contest looking the same, phenomenal but not good enough to win the olympia. Once the big boys were done, his time came.[/quote]
Dude, most of the guys you mentioned, in my opinion, burned out. You have to realize, someone like Dorian and Flex were using serious steroid cycles since their early 20’s or teenage years. These weren’t guys who waited until they reached more of their peak naturally. I would assume with ANYONE that if they train naturally to build most of their size, they will last way longer than someone who has been using heavily since 19 or 20.
People like Toney Freeman seemed to hold back from pushing their limits (judging only by their progress) until they were much farther along.
If you are using grams of test before the age of 25, do you really expect to be going strong by 40 if you last as a pro for all of those years?
I wouldn’t expect it.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Professor X wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
DH wrote:
Albert Beckles comes to mind. Looked his best at 50+. And Bill Pearl was as massive as ever in his 40s. He’s still “big” as he’s hitting about 70 or so.
Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
!? 40 is when most peak…
Exactly. Look at Toney Freeman. The man has been bodybuilding for over 20 years but just now started turning heads at over the age of 40. Dexter Jackson is at least 42 right now. You don’t even reach that “dense” look until over the age of 35 for most of these guys. This isn’t pro football. You are not past your prime at 40 in bodybuilding. If anything, you are just hitting your stride.
Once again, all AAS users. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but come on, at that age things just go down hill, it’s just how it works.
I follow bodybuilding and I am wholly aware that the peak age in the IFBB is in the 30’s and beyond for some.
Wait, so you are actually claiming that late 30’s is only the peak for steroid users?
Dude, I usually don’t have a problem with anything you type, but you are way off base with this one.
I’m saying that’s usually when the peak occurs. Toney Freeman peaked late because he is tall and finally achieved enough mass to fill out his frame. Dexter “peaked” because Ronnie retired and Jay ruined his lines. Lots of these “peaks” are just coincidence because stiffer competition either retired or fucked up.
What I meant in relation to natural lifters is hormone imbalances start to occur as you age. Lower test levels, higher estrogen etc. That means you will not be building muscle as quickly. In reference to the average lifter (not elite BBer) I believe that once they have reached 30+ they now have the knowledge on how to most effectively build muscle. Take that knowledge and put it in a 20 year old and the results will be much greater, that’s all I’m saying.[/quote]
I had my test level checked when I was 42(6yrs ago) and it was 709, primary MD said no way to HRT. I have no idea what my test level was 15-20 yrs ago. I don’t think lower test past your 40 is a given.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
dropshot001 wrote:
the reason why layne norton has his pro card and kiyoshi does not is because kiyoshi is competing against non-natties in npc events while layne has his natural pro card, and attained that by competing against other natty guys.
Um…no. He has definitely done natty comps. Musclemania, universe and all those are supposed to be natural.[/quote]
Norton has his pro card in a natural bodybuilding federation.
Musclemania is supposed to be natural, but isn’t, and is incredibly small compared to the NPC and larger natural federations. You will find a lot of dudes who are openly using in MM, meaning they have a similar “drug use policy” as the IFBB does…they have a policy but little to no real enforcement.
Team Universe is an NPC sanctioned event, meaning he would get an IFBB pro card there, but the competition will be much stiffer on ANY NPC stage than it will be on one of the pure natural federation’s.
You really can’t draw comparisons between pseudo-natural events like Musclemania and Team Universe and more heavily tested natural federations.
Personally, I think Kiyoshi (at least the last pictures I saw of him), does not appear to be a heavy user of AAS. He doesn’t have the massive upper back and shoulder structure that most assisted bodybuilders have.
[quote]WS4JB wrote:
Keeping with this topic, in a way, anybody remember when Art Atwood exploded on the pro scene, and then vanished just as quickly ?
[/quote]
If I remember correctly, Atwood went down during Operation Raw Deal.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
And let’s not forget that KM has muscle-memory on his side, just like Levrone.
Are you sure about that? All I remember seeing was his before pic and he looked like total crap.
Just curious, but why the Levrone comparisons? I don’t see him on that level at all. And if we are going by muscle memory kevin sure had a lot more to work with. [/quote] You forget that Kevin (as did KM) originally trained their way up without gear (though kevin eventually started using and got even bigger, this is the “more” you are referring to. I’m not sure which of the two got bigger without gear… I think they even trained together for a while or something like that.) and consistently, instead of their later approach of fluctuating up and down in bodyweight.
KM plays some sport (football?) in the off-season, I think. You have simply missed his earlier transformations.
He didn’t just one day decide to train for the first time of his life and got big in a month.
[quote]
Bottom line is, I can believe he’s natural but I don’t know if I ever fully will. Someone is always going to be cheating, there’s no reason it can’t be him.
Maybe he’ll be like Skip, just sell steroids but not use them 
All I see is this huge size/leanness discrepancy across leagues in the natural ranks and it doesn’t add up.[/quote]
You ever read my very first post on this forum? Just for the hell of it, have a look at that one…
And no, KM doesn’t blow everyone away at natty comps either… I think you’re mistaking him for someone else