What Does It Mean to Be a Man?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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I think we need to produce better men in this country. I’ve been thinking about this more and more lately as I’ve started to get older. I think we should come up with a list of things “men” SHOULD do. After we’ve got our list or at any point we could start to discuss how we can help younger kids develop these qualities that we think are essential.

I don’t know how everyone else feels when they hear the term man, but to me “man” is earned. You don’t take care of your kids you aren’t a man. Men raise their kids. You don’t apologize when you screw up (West Virgina water) you aren’t a man. Men acknowledge when they fuck up and tell people they will do better. You hit a woman you aren’t a man. Men don’t hit women. Boys hit women. Men help people out. You see someone who needs immediate help you act. House on fire, kid in the road, etc. Boys shy away. Men take action.

I would like for us not to get caught up on the minute details, (can a man hit a woman if a woman has a knife to a kids throat…of course he can) but on the things we think that men should do. I suppose we could do one for women in a separate thread if this goes well, but as a male I tend to focus more on what I think I should do to be a man and not what women need to do better. “Men” take responsibility, boys place the blame elsewhere.

What do you guys got? What does it take to be a man in 2014. Eventually then, how do we develop those qualities for all the young boys who we hope will grow up to be men?

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A man is a grown male. Or a post op female, I guess.

You are asking for moral obligations ( you don’t believe exist) to be attached. If you don’t believe they exist, except for as spaghetti monster stuff, how can you insist a ‘man’ is obligated to them?

Edit: A man is what it decided it wanted to be in order to be a man. Basically, a “best color” debate.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:
A man is a grown male. Or a post op female, I guess.

You are asking for moral obligations ( you don’t believe exist) to be attached. If you don’t believe they exist, except for as spaghetti monster stuff, how can you insist a ‘man’ is obligated to them?

Edit: A man is what it decided it wanted to be in order to be a man. Basically, a “best color” debate.[/quote]

Perhaps, but can’t we on this forum come up with some universal truths about how ideally we think a “man” in 2014 should act? I mean you and Push view things a bit different than me on certain things. We all disagree about certain things. You and I also AGREE on a lot of things. If we broke it down you and me certainly agree on more things than we disagree on. Push believes some things I disagree with and I believe some things Push disagrees with. That isn’t the point of the thread.

I’m “assuming” Push thinks men shouldn’t hit women. I’m assuming you think men shouldn’t hit women. What you and Push feel about foreign policy, or drug laws, or speeding, or smoking in public places, or marijuana legalization or Benghazi or 9/11, Obama, Romney, Chris Christie, back squats, etc. is irrelevant to this discussion isn’t it? I mean we ALL three agree that a man in 2014 should not hit a woman. “Men” don’t hit women. “Men” disagree on things, but hitting women isn’t one of those.

Does that make sense? I guess I view it as my Grandpa used to view it. He always said “that’s not how men behave” when we were growing up. I would hit my sisters or my male cousin would spit on them or do all the things little boys do growing up. When he talked to us and was trying to correct behavior he always said “that’s not how men behave.” This was usually after my ass was red, but different discussion :slight_smile:

I mean I know what Sloth is saying, but we can’t come up with some universal truths on this forum for how we think men should behave? I realize it’s subjective, but I definitely think we can. It’s not really a religious or not religious or values thing. People who believe in God can be great men to me or they can be shitty men to me. Same thing with non believers. Democrats can be great men and Democrats can be shitty mean. Same with every descriptor in the world. Some black guys don’t qualify as men. Some white guys don’t either. If you don’t take care of your kids you aren’t a man?

I dunno I guess I was trying to set this up as saying that I think calling someone a man is something that should be earned and to do that we need to somewhat define what we think good men do.

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[quote]H factor wrote:

Perhaps, but can’t we on this forum come up with some universal truths…[/quote]

No.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

Perhaps, but can’t we on this forum come up with some universal truths…[/quote]

No.
[/quote]

I think you’re wrong and getting caught up in the minutia of the discussion which is exactly what I had hoped people wouldn’t do when I created this thread. I think it could be a very valuable discussion, but if people aren’t willing to try and have it then I guess I was wrong.

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I’m afraid the sloth is right. What’s really fucking things up is the idea of ‘universal truth’, or more accurately ‘absolute truth’, if I might offer a guess? You don’t actually have a problem producing men in the USA, by the way. They look fine to me.

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[quote]Der_Steppenwolfe wrote:
I’m afraid the sloth is right. What’s really fucking things up is the idea of ‘universal truth’, or more accurately ‘absolute truth’, if I might offer a guess? You don’t actually have a problem producing men in the USA, by the way. They look fine to me. [/quote]

I understand how subjective it is. I don’t think we have a problem producing men either. We have a ton of great men in this country. How do we make sure we make great men at a higher rate than “boys.”

I view the owner of that West Virgina water company as a boy. He screwed up. He didn’t apologize. He’s a boy. I view Chris Christie’s apology as something a man should do. He screwed up (or people on his watch screwed up) and he apologized. A lot. Men acknowledge when they mess things up. I have no clue what Christie actually knew and when and I don’t even really know if I like Chris Christie or not. I think what Christie did in apologizing was behave as a man should and I think that West Virgina dude acted as if boys do.

At times I’m pissed off at Obama because I don’t think he always acts like a man. Men don’t shift blame. “boys” shift blame. Like I was saying I was hoping people wouldn’t get up in the super small details and so far that’s all we’ve done. Guess this thread isn’t going the way I thought it may :slight_smile:

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[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

Perhaps, but can’t we on this forum come up with some universal truths…[/quote]

No.
[/quote]

I think you’re wrong and getting caught up in the minutia of the discussion which is exactly what I had hoped people wouldn’t do when I created this thread. I think it could be a very valuable discussion, but if people aren’t willing to try and have it then I guess I was wrong. [/quote]

This forum can create universal truths about “man?”

Or, do you already believe there are already universal truths about “man?”

You’re proposing we discuss universal truths. Universal moral truths (moral obligations), actually, when considering your ideas of how a ‘man’ ought to be. We don’t simply come up with such things. They must exist independent of us. We can claim to have identified them in some way, I’ll give you that. To have discovered them.

But that requires faith. A faith that some things that count, can’t be counted.

Otherwise, it’s like suggesting we come up with the universal best favorite color.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

Perhaps, but can’t we on this forum come up with some universal truths…[/quote]

No.
[/quote]

I think you’re wrong and getting caught up in the minutia of the discussion which is exactly what I had hoped people wouldn’t do when I created this thread. I think it could be a very valuable discussion, but if people aren’t willing to try and have it then I guess I was wrong. [/quote]

This forum can create universal truths about “man?”

Or, do you already believe there are already universal truths about “man?”

You’re proposing we discuss universal truths. Universal moral truths (moral obligations), actually, when considering your ideas of how a ‘man’ ought to be. We don’t simply come up with such things. They must exist independent of us. We can claim to have identified them in some way, I’ll give you that. To have discovered them.

But that requires faith. A faith that some things that count, can’t be counted.

Otherwise, it’s like suggesting we come up with the universal best favorite color.
[/quote]

Not about “man” but about “men.” As in the way men should act in 2014. And it doesn’t require faith no matter how much you say it. It simply does not. I’m a non believer in God and I don’t think men should rape women. You’re a believer in God and you don’t think men should rape women. Bam, we just agreed on that.

You are making this MUCH more difficult than it is supposed to be. It’s like I asked what 2+2 is and you said, “ah, but what do you mean by 2?”

You’re not wrong for how you’re looking at this Sloth, but you are completely complicating the process of something that is not intended to be difficult. You’re basically saying we can’t work on solutions to problems together because we don’t believe the same thing to start out with. That’s a bunch of bullshit frankly.

Mark Levin is not a fan of President Obama and I’m sure President Obama is not a fan of Mark Levin. They view the world WAY differently. They see solutions to problems WAY differently. If they sat down in a room and talked about problems they would agree on MORE stuff than less. They may just disagree on the solutions to those problems.

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[quote]H factor wrote:

At times I’m pissed off at Obama because I don’t think he always acts like a man. Men don’t shift blame. “boys” shift blame. Like I was saying I was hoping people wouldn’t get up in the super small details and so far that’s all we’ve done. Guess this thread isn’t going the way I thought it may :slight_smile: [/quote]

Have you not ridiculed faith? God? Morality? Done the spaghetti monster stuff?

I can’t help to fall into a sort of “Woah, wait a minute…H-factor is saying that anyone calling themselves a “man” has these moral obligations. And he’s implying (well, kind of explicit actually) these are universal truths?!”

/Faints of shock

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

At times I’m pissed off at Obama because I don’t think he always acts like a man. Men don’t shift blame. “boys” shift blame. Like I was saying I was hoping people wouldn’t get up in the super small details and so far that’s all we’ve done. Guess this thread isn’t going the way I thought it may :slight_smile: [/quote]

Have you not ridiculed faith? God? Morality? Done the spaghetti monster stuff?

I can’t help to fall into a sort of “Woah, wait a minute…H-factor is saying that anyone calling themselves a “man” has these moral obligations. And he’s implying (well, kind of explicit actually) these are universal truths?!”

/Faints of shock
[/quote]

Of course I have ridiculed it. Just as you have ridiculed people who don’t believe. You’ve looked down on people like my brother who are gay. We’ve had HEATED discussions about things. I can say that for anyone on this forum and so can you…even people who BELIEVE like you do. People aren’t going to agree on everything. Of course I view faith differently than some people…I’m a non believer! Damn Sloth I’ve acknowledged that already. We may not even agree on everything that we think good men should do! But I bet we can agree on a shit ton of things about good men.

Maybe we can’t do this. You can’t look past what I’ve said in the past so you’re focusing on that and won’t allow this thread to go in a positive direction because of it. I have no idea why that is the case.

Again, you’ve made this really complicated and now it most likely doesn’t have a chance to be a thread of any actual value. Maybe I’ll try again in a few months or something. By nature PWI is going to be full of threads that we don’t agree on things. I was attempting to start one to see if we could come to a general agreement on what a good man in 2014 should do. That’s something that I believe is achievable. Of course it isn’t if we decide not to try.

Maybe I’ll try again in a few months or something. Maybe we can’t do this right now or ever. I still think we could.

14

[quote]H factor wrote:
You don’t take care of your kids you aren’t a man.[/quote]

Don’t women take care of kids, too?

Women aren’t obligated to do as much?

What if a ‘woman’ doesn’t hit ‘women.’ Does she become a man?

Why? If you don’t want them to, shouldn’t you say, “you hit a woman, you aren’t a boy.” I don’t know what then makes them…

Women should watch them die?

15

I said we could start a thread about women later. Now you’re just trying to argue stuff I would be nowhere near saying. I think “man” is something you should earn. Like your pro card or NFL athlete. I was trying to have a discussion about that.

Ok, I’ll give up. I’m gonna go do something else for a while. I guess I’ll stop trying to make a different type of thread and we can just have race threads and vortex videos.

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[quote]H factor wrote:

Of course I have ridiculed it. Just as you have ridiculed people who don’t believe. You’ve looked down on people like my brother who are gay. We’ve had HEATED discussions about things. I can say that for anyone on this forum and so can you…even people who BELIEVE like you do. People aren’t going to agree on everything. Of course I view faith differently than some people…I’m a non believer! [/quote]

Then why are we talking as if there are universal moral obligations for man/men?

So, a man is whatever he/post-op tran wants itself to be.

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[quote]H factor wrote:
I said we could start a thread about women later. [/quote]

I think it’s important, though. If all these universal moral obligations are actually unisex, well, it’s a topic about people in general.

Shouldn’t these obligations be somehow unique to men?

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[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I said we could start a thread about women later. [/quote]

I think it’s important, though. If all these universal moral obligations are actually unisex, well, it’s a topic about people in general.

Shouldn’t these obligations be somehow unique to men?
[/quote]

Obviously many of the things we say about men would be true as well. That wasn’t my point in saying what does it mean to be a man. I wanted to know what the forum thought good “men” should do. Of course women should do many of these things as well. Again I THOUGHT it would be obvious when I said “men” raise their kids that I wouldn’t also think women shouldn’t raise their kids.

On a male dominated board I thought it would be interesting to talk about men and what good men should do. I put all of this in my original post and tried to be as clear as possible.

Again things like post-op and all that other minutia that people keep wanting to discuss in my opinion is just taking our eyes off the ball or getting caught up in shit that doesn’t matter to the discussion. If we just nitpick the small stuff and try to find all the silly hypothetical (can a man hit a woman if she has a knife to a kids face) scenarios where we would change our thought then we may as well just let the thread float to the bottom now.

Let me try a different tack. In bodybuilding you have to earn your pro card. I work to be as strong, fast, lean as possible. I don’t do shows and I don’t have a pro card. I haven’t earned that title of bodybuilding pro. If you had to earn the title of “man” what would be the qualifications we could agree on? I think we CAN agree on a lot of them despite all the other stuff we disagree on.

For instance if I was Republican and you were Democrat or I was black and you were white that wouldn’t keep you from being able to earn the title of “man.” (Maybe I should be saying “good” man). If you hit women you don’t get the title of good man. I think you and I can agree on that despite disagreeing on who created the universe don’t you? I think we can agree that good men don’t rape even if you voted for Obama and me Gary Johnson don’t you? Basically if we made a list of actions good people could take you and I would agree on almost all of them despite us disagreeing on whether or not God exists.

Again we may argue the small stuff, but we wouldn’t argue that good men shouldn’t rape. I wanted to know what everyone else thinks “good men” should do. Not necessarily think or believe. Men shouldn’t rape women. You and I disagree about gays but we definitely agree on that. In fact we agree about FAR more than disagree.

So I’ll try one last time…what are some things the forum thinks good men in 2014 should do? What can we agree on?

I mean I thought this may be interesting to discuss, but if it’s not then let’s just let it get to the bottom so kneedragger and c-dog have more room to dominate the forum with racism and vortex.

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undo: That’s funny. Where is it from? I haven’t really watched TV other than live sports in 3 years. Is it a funny cartoon?