I’m a recovering atheist, conveted to Catholicism. Loving it. Nothing wrong with wanting to convert people to your line of thinking. There is no one here that can claim they don’t try to convert people to their thinking from time to time. That’s why I love the US of A so much, free exchange of ideas!! As long as you are conducting yourself in a nonviolent manner you have the right to “convert” (which is the point of any debate).
i dont doubt that judiasm doesnt believe Christ was the savior, or a prophet. they dont even have to think he was a good carpenter. i was just saying that not all sects of judiasm think alike. and not all jews in a specific sect think alike. one of the things that is strange to me about a lot of jewish teachings is that everything happens in Isreal. the children of isreal will be delivered. is that Isreal as a geographic area, or Isreal as in a place where jews exist. cuz if it is geographical, then any jew outside of isreal is pretty much screwed. but if it is interpreted w/ a little leniance, saying isreal was not intended as just a geographic location, then other things can be stretched as well… sorry, this thread isnt about that. just responding to your post about the teachings. and that not all jews follow the same set of rules. nor do all Christians. nor do all muslims… im sure you see my point.
i see you point lets drop the conversation here-but all i was trying to say was judaism has a clear cut set of rules that were different then what michelle was portraying even if not everyone follows them-they r still the rules-Xracergs out
It interesting to note that after two weeks of arguing the validity the position that christians are perecutors and moslems are tolerant, the knee-jerk liberals are falling by the wayside. Many of you have dedicated a good deal of time and effort bring to light the facts. I especially want to thank Pat, Pete, Forgiven, DA Man, L-3Tman, Damaci and MooCow.
As too the liberals who are still hanging in there and bashing your own culture, hope you don’t forget to tell your children how much their ancestors suck. I’m sure this does great things for their fragile egos.
Damici - That quote about haveing a cause to die for is from something Martin Luther King Jr. said. I didn’t use him as a source because it didn’t matter all that much. I’m sorry that I didn’t spell it out for you. Romantic? No, not really. A bit horrifying in my mind. Personally, I had to really think about it when I read King’s quote (back in high school) because I don’t know if I HAVE a cause I believe in that strongly. It’s funny how the context has changed though, isn’t it? Sort of like people who hate Hitler but acknowledge that he was one of the most powerful and charismatic leaders in modern history. You have to remove some of the raw emotion and consider the underlieing thruths… and that is that these people feel strongly enough about their beliefs that they will kill others and themselves. Being indignent about the slaughter of thousands of innocent people is one thing, but not caring unless they are American is something else completely. Call me names if you wish, but I don’t see much of a difference.
Xracergs - I see your point… Da Man - the ‘nation of Iseral’ referres to the people themselves I believe. Because there are references to Iseral in the desert, which I have always understood to be the group of people. I’m not sure how it could refer to the geographic place, because the boundries have changed.
three words. religion is personal interpretation of a standard set of beliefs, and therefore is the cause of all wars, because none of us are going to agree. ok that was more than three. nuff said.
The main difference in the civilian casualties between those in the World Trade Center and those in Afghanistan is that those in the WTC were specifically targeted, just as civilians in Israel are specifically targeted by the suicide bombers. In Afghanistan, any civilians killed were not specifically targeted, but were unavoidable “collateral damage” from military targets. Are they just as dead? Yes. But morally there is a huge difference. They target civilians, while we target those who have picked up arms and dedicated themselves to our destruction.
Michelle,
It doesn’t matter who the quote is from; my response remains the same. If YOU can’t see a cause that YOU are willing to die for in all this, well, that’s pretty sad. But I do find relief in the fact that you’re not a member of the 10th Mtn. Division or the 101st Airborne. The fact that these terrorists are suicidal is nothing new – we all know this already. I never said I “didn’t care” about slaughter taking place elsewhere in the world, but caring and being willing to put your own body in the line of fire are two different things. When it comes to my country’s national interest (and self-defense, as is the case now), I AM willing to do so. When it comes to a remote location unrelated to our national interest or safety, I’m not willing to do so, nor am I willing to (if I were President) send any other Americans into that battle. Again I ask: AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO WAGING THIS WAR, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE US DO???
(The silence in response to my last question is really quite deafening, isn’t it)?
Since when did suicide become a brave act? A willingness to die for a cause is one thing, but using youself as a weapon because your life sucks, your poor, you live in an arid fucking desert where nothing grows, you are oppressed and there is no way out. Now somebody convinces you that if you blow yourself and take some people with you, up you get to live eternity in in luxury nailing 72 of your favorite virgins. Somebody explain the bravery, because I missed it.
Damici - what slience? I just got back on the forum… I’m unemployed now so I can’t be online much. Anyway… I have no idea what we should be doing instead of this war, infact I’m not even agaist the war, so what the hell is the bases of your question? I simply asked if you had a cause to die for. Obviously, the members of the military divisions you named DO have a cause, I believe it is their country. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s part of being in the military - being willing to die in the service of your country. Just like any cop, fire fighter, etc. those people are willing to die to do their jobs in service of the public.