Goldberg, how much do you think the sled has helped your training? I hear everyone say its great and i plan on getting one soon. Patricia, if you are weak off of the chest, often it is a matter of strengthening your lats more.
I was going to suggest exactly what Goldie said about getting a tire, etc. for your sled, but he already said it. Dang.
For Patricia and anyone else who might be interested, I always considered that I had strong triceps. They’ve grown easily compared to the rest of my body, and I could always French Press more weight than most people my size. But when I first tried to max out on bench presses after doing a few weeks of Westside, I found that my sticking point had shifted (maybe it was the new grip) much higher.
Back in the day, I’d get stuck right off my chest. After a few weeks of Westside, I was able to get a really good push, but stalled out about 2/3-3/4 of the way up. Couldn’t believe it. So I did more triceps work, as well as a lot of rack lifts. Got some new personals (and I mean easy - they blew up!).
Then, at the new, heavier weight, the next time the sticking point was lower (about halfway up), leading me to believe that my front delts are now the weak link. And that, friends and neighbors, is why you see the front raises in my routine up above. I’ve never done front raises with any consistency before, but thought that it was time to incorporate some to see about strengthening the anterior delt. So that’s where I am now.
The point to all of this is: I think that with Westside, the training is so effective, and you gain strength so quickly, that you really have to re-calibrate and re-assess much more frequently than you’d be used to doing otherwise. Like once a month or so.
Word up.
Im glad bloatis is around. I need help like hes spewing on the bench
Oguard-I played oguard by the way. Anyway. I think it helped me tremendously in my last cycle. I havent used it much this cycle because i moved and there isnt anywhere to drag, thus i have to drive to drag it instead of just walking out the door. that kinda sucks.
I have a question now. My floor press hasnt gone up in about six months. All my other max effort movements have gone way up. One problem i have is that i think one arm is longer than the other. No matter how hard i try, my right arm always hits the ground first. This throws me way off on max attempts. This doesnt happen for some reason when i go for 3’s. I think im gonna go for 3’s from now on. After missing my record for singles i dropped down to ten lbs over my 3 rep max from 10 weeks ago and beat that. And that was after two very long strains with my single. Anyone else have problems like this?
I have not had any problems with unevenly touching the floor on the floor press, but in that position i think it is a little harder to control the negative with your back so that could be the problem. I think your plan to go with threes is good, and maybe after that go back to ones.
patricia and char-dawg:
mid point weak point is either speed from the bottom or weak triceps at that position Ive also seen people who lower the bar way to slow lose elastic energy, speed and get stuck. all that is according to dave tate and my empirical results.
weak front delts is very rare, and can be attributed to prolonged bad technique, or stronger biceps/delts tie in then triceps/delt (i.e different insertion points - if you are relatively stronger in flyes then in db presses, you are from the rare first group, larry scot used to talk about that alot) I would go with steep incline presses for that, thats a bil starr tip for the front delt-chest tie in.
S-man
Goldberg- Dude I realy dont like floor presses. Never felt like I got any thing out of them that helped my bench shirt max. Instead of floor presses I do what metal milltia does and do declines these help my shirt bench a ton because they feel A lot like benching in a shirt because I can really concentrate ON KEEPING MY ELBOWS TUCKED AND PUSHING IN A STRAIGHT LINE. If you do them with a medium to close grip for all your sets except your max’s they kill your triceps. I guess we are all diffirent I never got anything out of floor presses except for a sore shoulder griddle. Big Martin
OGUARD- The thing I like about the sled is using it as a warm up. Loui once told me that if you cant go out and drag a sled for 20 minutes before you train and then go in and train with no ill effects at all, you are out of shape. Now of course I dont drag for 20 min but I do do any where between 6-10 trips of 100 yards with about a plate and a 25 or 2 plates on the sled before every work out. This will force you to get in shape. I sometimes will use the sled for recovery if I am really beat up, but this is rare because I really dont like extra work outs and like to be lazy on my off days. I beleive if you are killing yourself in your main 4 workouts of the week then there is no need to do extra ones. Big Martin
I have that same symptom with floor presses. I think it may be because my left shoulder is weaker, and subconsciously I’m afraid to let that elbow come down all the way.
Or it may be the fact that there is nothing to balance the bar on(chest or board),and I just need more of the good ole neuromuscular facillitation or something like that…
Don’t know what happened, but I posted a long ass response the other night that must have gotten eaten…here’s a quick recap:
Patricia- You can probably handle some lat/upper back/rear delt work (one or two exercises total) on your sample bench day there. It’s obviously up to you about how you feel that day, of course.
bloatis- I can’t argue with you varying it up with the tricep work.
Nice observations…most of us here like to change our speed weight as we change our grips…I prefer to keep mine the same throughout at this point.
Eric- Tempo? Best I can tell you is to move things as fast as possible while keeping perfect form.
dadean- No way would I be doing cleans on my off days.
And for today…
Goldberg- You know my floor press sucks ass and has moved a whopping five pounds in the last couple months (though I probably could have gotten at least 10lbs more this week)…I too, have one arm that hits way before the other, but I’m not sure that’s what my problem is. Everyone here seems to agree that it’s simply a triceps issue with me. I’m not gonna give them up by any means, but perhaps it would be interesting to do some more declines in place of them from time to time like bigmartin suggested.
Hey Steve, Goldberg et. al. could you guys give me the links to your training logs that are (somewhere) in the Dog Pound. I tried the search for a while and was not able to find them. Also, is anyone not able to get into the Elite site or is it just me?
You know, I’ve seen several folks refer to having a problem with the EFS site, however I’ve had no problem. I think they were down for a few days during the power outage, but I’ve been there every day for at least the last 12 days.
Oh, and those logs are always near the top. Look under “Next Ten Weeks” for Goldberg’s, and “IPA Nationals Meet Training Log” for Steves.
See guys…we actually do read 'em.
Hey guys,
two questions:
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on box squats used as ME move, how long should I stay down? GB said “release the hip flexors, and go up” Im also having trouble with my breathing pattern down there. tips will be appreciated
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bar placemant in the squat - I want to get back to that although it was disscused. if you can tell me the EXACT place where the bar should be, where should the elbows point, etc. I was playing with it today, and still I feel that my weakest link in my 180K squat is my bar placement! in the lower weight I can hold it on my rear delts as steve and GB suggested with elbows pointed down but at higher weights - no way!
I just cant get it right. arrrrgh - I wish I had a coach.
thanks
S-man.
Glute-
***Try and get your hands on some of the Westside training videos, or better yet, the seminar video. I think it would help you out a lot, as many of your questions would be better answered through a visual medium.
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Get down to the box, pause there for a second as you release the hip flexors (this doesn’t mean become completely loose, however…the rest of your body should stay tight), and then explode up. As far as breathing goes, there is no breathing at the bottom; take your air into your belly as you begin the lift, and do your best to hold your air throughout the entire lift.
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It’s impossible for us to tell you exactly where the bar should be for you. I don’t know about others, but I have a distinct “shelf” that appears when I arch my upper back and pull my elbows forward. When I get under the bar I just slide myself along the bar until it hits the shelf (obviously it’s still racked). Even the lighter women here have that “shelf” so it’s not like you have to have enormous traps to find the spot. Practice with a broomstick or something at home…get a tight arch in your lower and upper back, pull your elbows forward and under the bar (or broomstick), and slide the bar down your back until it stops in that little “groove”. You’ll know you’re getting closer to the proper position when you’re uncomfortable as all hell and your external rotators, as well as lower and upper back, feel tight as hell.
A tip about learning to hold your air I just thought of: Practice taking a belly full of air before beginning a set of ab pulldowns, and try to hold your air for the entire set. We normally do our ab pulldowns in a standing “squatting position”, so it mimics the movement nicely. Before you know it, you’ll be holding your air for a set of 10-12. When you get to that point, holding your air for max squats or speed squats (or an movement for that matter) will be easy.
On the box squat, the point is to break up the eccentric-concentric chain and this can be accomplished by only breifly sitting onto the box, it is not pause squat, but just by sitting onto the box the hips will naturally loosen up and then flex again upon the ascent. You dont need to be there for long. For bar placement i have the same problem and squat with the bar too high, it is partially due to the shitty rack i train in where i cannot grip the bar wide due to the j-hook position. Also i am trying to build my upper back more so i can hold the bar lower. Give that a try.
On week 7 ME bench day of the 9-week basic training program by Dave Tate he has prescribed 3x20 ball presses for the first exercise. I’m assuming ball press is DB bench press on a Swiss ball. Am I correct? Also what is the deal with the 3x20 set-up? Is this where one would do a 20-rep max and then try to repeat it each set? Did Tate leave out the ME exercise because by now he believes that we are able to prescribe our own?
This is explained in a few articles. The higher rep set is done in place of the max effort exercise that day. Pick a weight and try to get 20 reps. Miss if you have to. Rest five minutes and do it again. Then rest five minutes and do it again. And theres your max effort exercise for the day.
Molsonman- The dumbell week is just a week for recovery. You do this type of movement if your feeling beat up. It will get blood into the area and help heal you up. I also think that with the 9 week program you max out in week 9? This week will also help as a deload week to make sure you are refreshed and healed up to max. Yes you should get 20 reps on set 1 and the next sets try to ge as many as you can like 15 for example.
Hope this helps Big martin
Molsonman- I also forgot to tell you that you rest 5 minutes between these sets when you use this as your max effort movement. Big Martin
Thanks for the help.