Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 4

Training Powerlifting
701

[quote]sparkskk wrote:

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
^Not a 5th day, but I do the 50 reps of pullups (assistance on my OHP day) with 15 lbs hanging on a belt[/quote]

I’m also doing something similar to this. On OHP day I’ll do sets of 5-6 chins/pull-ups between each pressing movement. No added weight but I find it a good way to get 60-70 done in a session. I’ve been making steady progression on the OHP for the last 4 cycles so I’m sticking with it for now. [/quote]

I just don’t see why chins are treated differently than any other important compound lift in 531. Why is there no programming just 50 total reps? I have always ramped up to one heavy set, then done a back off set with only +45, then done a few sets of bw. I don’t actually calculate percentages for these but I follow progression that’s kind of an estimated 531 for the top sets. My pr is +75 lbs for 5 at 185 lbs and this is by far my most immpressive and fastest progressing lift

702

[quote]Ganjamilf wrote:
I just don’t see why chins are treated differently than any other important compound lift in 531. Why is there no programming just 50 total reps?[/quote]

Because, unless you can do chins at greater than 1.5 times your bodyweight, the program will ask you to do a chin with less than your bodyweight.

Yes, there are ways to work with this. But since one of the cornerstones of this program is simplicity, why don’t we keep it simple and just have people work towards a total number of reps until they’re stronger.

703

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]Ganjamilf wrote:
I just don’t see why chins are treated differently than any other important compound lift in 531. Why is there no programming just 50 total reps?[/quote]

Because, unless you can do chins at greater than 1.5 times your bodyweight, the program will ask you to do a chin with less than your bodyweight.

Yes, there are ways to work with this. But since one of the cornerstones of this program is simplicity, why don’t we keep it simple and just have people work towards a total number of reps until they’re stronger.[/quote]

Ok but my original question is that since in my experience chins respond just as well as any other lift to ramping up to a heavy set, and in my case I’m using basically 531 progression on chins anyway, would it be reasonable to give chins a fifth day? I’m asking this because I don’t really like supersetting chins with military press and since I’m a high school student I can pretty much workout every day if I felt it was beneficial.

704

[quote]Ganjamilf wrote:

[quote]malonetd wrote:

[quote]Ganjamilf wrote:
I just don’t see why chins are treated differently than any other important compound lift in 531. Why is there no programming just 50 total reps?[/quote]

Because, unless you can do chins at greater than 1.5 times your bodyweight, the program will ask you to do a chin with less than your bodyweight.

Yes, there are ways to work with this. But since one of the cornerstones of this program is simplicity, why don’t we keep it simple and just have people work towards a total number of reps until they’re stronger.[/quote]

Ok but my original question is that since in my experience chins respond just as well as any other lift to ramping up to a heavy set, and in my case I’m using basically 531 progression on chins anyway, would it be reasonable to give chins a fifth day? I’m asking this because I don’t really like supersetting chins with military press and since I’m a high school student I can pretty much workout every day if I felt it was beneficial. [/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t see you had an original question. I don’t see a problem with it, especially since you’re a high school kid and can likely recover easily from 5 days of lifting. Just be conscious of overlapping assistance and how hard you are pushing yourself.

705

Hey guys got a question: my original DL max is 440 and I took 395 as my max. I’m on cycle 2, week number 3 and the bar today didn’t even budge 385. Not even an inch. What gives?

706

Maybe you need an early deload. Then start on the cycle you’re on now again. You could even lower your training max if you’re that worried about it.

707

Thanks.

708

Went to the Philly seminar today, it was awesome. First off, Steve Pulcinella is a big, big dude. He’s got crazy eyes, it’s true. He looks like he’s about to rip your head off. In reality, he was very nice and accommodating, ordered a bunch of pizzas for everyone, made sure everyone had a chair, cracked some jokes, etc.

Did basically a q&a with the three guys for a while, after lunch broke into three groups, Rhodes coached the deadlift, Dizenzo did bench, Wendler squat.

Rhodes was great, funny, nice guy, etc. Showed him my regular deadlift form, he said it was ok, then the new form I’m working on to get hips lower, he said that was better. Good guy, got a nice “good game” ass pat from him too.

Dizenzo showed me how to set up on the bench that felt like someone dug around in my hips with a fucking screwdriver. Good guy, hips hate him.

Wendler showed me how to squat, finished what Dizenzo started on my hips, but also gave me stretches to work on the hips. In the process I’m pretty sure he referred to my ass as two crescent moons. Great guy, fucking hilarious, awesome to meet him. Really fucking awesome, hope I get the chance again sometime.

709

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Went to the Philly seminar today, it was awesome. First off, Steve Pulcinella is a big, big dude. He’s got crazy eyes, it’s true. He looks like he’s about to rip your head off. In reality, he was very nice and accommodating, ordered a bunch of pizzas for everyone, made sure everyone had a chair, cracked some jokes, etc.

Did basically a q&a with the three guys for a while, after lunch broke into three groups, Rhodes coached the deadlift, Dizenzo did bench, Wendler squat.

Rhodes was great, funny, nice guy, etc. Showed him my regular deadlift form, he said it was ok, then the new form I’m working on to get hips lower, he said that was better. Good guy, got a nice “good game” ass pat from him too.

Dizenzo showed me how to set up on the bench that felt like someone dug around in my hips with a fucking screwdriver. Good guy, hips hate him.

Wendler showed me how to squat, finished what Dizenzo started on my hips, but also gave me stretches to work on the hips. In the process I’m pretty sure he referred to my ass as two crescent moons. Great guy, fucking hilarious, awesome to meet him. Really fucking awesome, hope I get the chance again sometime. [/quote]

I hate you…

Seriously, that’s awesome.

710

It really was awesome. I’ve got so much work to do on my squat, basically nowhere close on my form to where I should be. That may sound like it sucks, but I think it’s great because when I get all the tweaks sorted out, I think my squat will really take off.

711

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Went to the Philly seminar today, it was awesome. First off, Steve Pulcinella is a big, big dude. He’s got crazy eyes, it’s true. He looks like he’s about to rip your head off. In reality, he was very nice and accommodating, ordered a bunch of pizzas for everyone, made sure everyone had a chair, cracked some jokes, etc.

Did basically a q&a with the three guys for a while, after lunch broke into three groups, Rhodes coached the deadlift, Dizenzo did bench, Wendler squat.

Rhodes was great, funny, nice guy, etc. Showed him my regular deadlift form, he said it was ok, then the new form I’m working on to get hips lower, he said that was better. Good guy, got a nice “good game” ass pat from him too.

Dizenzo showed me how to set up on the bench that felt like someone dug around in my hips with a fucking screwdriver. Good guy, hips hate him.

Wendler showed me how to squat, finished what Dizenzo started on my hips, but also gave me stretches to work on the hips. In the process I’m pretty sure he referred to my ass as two crescent moons. Great guy, fucking hilarious, awesome to meet him. Really fucking awesome, hope I get the chance again sometime. [/quote]

Agreed, the seminar was awesome! Those guys were really nice, really knowledegable, and crazy strong. My head is still spinning from all the info we got. And yeah, I had no idea the bench press could be so punishing on my glutes! I’m headed to the gym this afternoon to practice my bench and squat form some more while it’s still fresh in my head.

I feel so exhausted even though we didn’t actually lift much, hw about you? I guess it was just a really long day for me, too much stuffed in my little brain. :slight_smile:

712

I’d like to add cleans into my program- I know Wendler usually programs them in using 5/3/1 loading before squat 5/3/1. Has anybody programmed them differently?

I was thinking of just doing straight sets to practice the move outside OHP day. (similar to doing squat assistance on deadlift 5/3/1 day) I never really learned cleans so it’s an unfamiliar move.

713

Yea I left pretty tired, but kind of wired. I think I took too much melatonin the night before, which for me has the opposite of desired effect- makes my heart race, can’t sleep. So i was working on no sleep anyway, then 2.5 hr drive there, didn’t eat or drink much through the day…so by the time I got home I was pretty tired.

I too would liked to have gotten to the gym today and practiced the squat form with just the bar, but I cant get there today. Besides, the way my hips are fired up just from doing it yesterday with the bar, probably wouldn’t help tomorrow’s deads session.

Which group were you in? Did you go to Rhodes, Dizenzo, or Wendler first?

714

I envy both of you - i LIVE in freakin Philly and hte gym is 30 mins drive from my house. Wanted to sign up for hte seminar (of course) way back in December, but, since its January and i work accounting, my boss kindly told me i shouldn’t really…miss work that Saturday (i have to work every saturday anyway)…so yeah - i’m pissed. No idea when such a golden opportunity will arise again…

715

I just want to inroduce myself and post a couple of questions. I’ve been visiting TNation for a couple of years, but not because I was interested in bodybuilding or powerlifting. That has changed. I am 47 and started trying to “get in shape” about three years ago. I began with a simple routine of mostly bodyweight exercises, cardio, and clean eating.

Since then, it has evolved/progressed into more of a focus on strength training while trying to maintain a decent level of conditioning. I dabbled with some 5x5 work incorporating the main lifts; however, I was lacking structure. To make a long story even longer, I began searching for a good “program” that would get me on my way to develop some real strength.

Enter Wendler’s 5/3/1. Some random reading on this site led me to some of Maraudermeat’s posts. I believed he could steer me in the right direction and, although I had already purchased the ebook before he could reply, he agreed that 5/3/1 would suit my needs.

I am doing the BBB protocol and will start my second week tomorrow.

My assistance exercises are as follows:

  • Pullups with military press
  • Hanging leg raises and wheel rollouts with deadlift
  • Dumbbell rows with bench
  • I am not sure what to use for squats since I don’t have a leg curl machine.
    For the first week, I did walking lunges with a 20# vest. Thoughts on this?

These are just the default exercises in the book.

Could I please get some feedback on what some of you are doing for assistance work and other alternatives for leg curls and GHD, since I don’t have that equipment?

I have been sprinting hills for conditioning. As a conditioning alternative, I thought about doing a light barbell complex at the end of workouts. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks Jim for the material and thanks Maraudermeat for your help.

Thanks in advance to all others for any additional help.

Down in Texas,

Scott

716

[quote]mlekava000 wrote:
I envy both of you - i LIVE in freakin Philly and hte gym is 30 mins drive from my house. Wanted to sign up for hte seminar (of course) way back in December, but, since its January and i work accounting, my boss kindly told me i shouldn’t really…miss work that Saturday (i have to work every saturday anyway)…so yeah - i’m pissed. No idea when such a golden opportunity will arise again…[/quote]

I’m pretty sure they’re going to do another one at ironsport, because there was a lot more interest in this one than they could accommodate- meaning they wanted to keep it relatively small in order to give people adequate attention. I would actually consider going again if they held another one in the next few months. Would be helpful to work on the stuff for a bit myself, then get some feedback on how well I’m implementing the cues/tips.

717

Deleting a bunch of old emails through my mail app on this here iPad, coming across a bunch of questions I asked Jim. I thought this one was good:

In regards to 20 rep squats and milk…what about 20 rep deads? Are you more prone to injury doing deads that high?

Answer: “it’s only " injury prone” if you are weak."

Then he talked about not being afraid to push some lifts into higher rep ranges 15+, that people would be surprised how big and strong they could get doing this.

718

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Deleting a bunch of old emails through my mail app on this here iPad, coming across a bunch of questions I asked Jim. I thought this one was good:

In regards to 20 rep squats and milk…what about 20 rep deads? Are you more prone to injury doing deads that high?

Answer: “it’s only " injury prone” if you are weak."

Then he talked about not being afraid to push some lifts into higher rep ranges 15+, that people would be surprised how big and strong they could get doing this.[/quote]

Ha! I actually remember that. Thanks for coming to the seminar - glad to finally to meet you.

719

Thanks again Jim!

720

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Yea I left pretty tired, but kind of wired. I think I took too much melatonin the night before, which for me has the opposite of desired effect- makes my heart race, can’t sleep. So i was working on no sleep anyway, then 2.5 hr drive there, didn’t eat or drink much through the day…so by the time I got home I was pretty tired.

I too would liked to have gotten to the gym today and practiced the squat form with just the bar, but I cant get there today. Besides, the way my hips are fired up just from doing it yesterday with the bar, probably wouldn’t help tomorrow’s deads session.

Which group were you in? Did you go to Rhodes, Dizenzo, or Wendler first?[/quote]

I was in your group. :slight_smile:

<— earring girl

Worked on my bench setup with just the empty bar… it hurt, lol. This is going to take some getting used to! Squats are tomorow. gulp