Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 4

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
I want to add a shoulder assistance exercise to help improve my OH Shoulder Press. I was thinking about doing Shoulder Presses from the pins for 5 sets of 5 at about 85% of my 1RM. I figure that working from a sticking point may help me to improve that. Any other recommendations?[/quote]

No other recommendations. That is probably the single best thing you can do for your Press. Just be careful to maintain overall shoulder health, so work in rear delt work, since the front and medial heads take quite a beating.

Starr recommends dips for overhead strength.

[quote]Jack Urboady wrote:

[quote]Knausome wrote:
This thread shouldn’t be on the second page. Anyway, this cycle I am moving my BBB deadlifts and squats to opposite days. For instance, I’ll do my 3’s week SQ tonight, then follow it up with 3x10 of DL, working up to 5x10 in the next cycle or two. Since I made the switch, I’m not out of commission for days following a Monday DL session.[/quote]

I’ve done exactly the same mate. Do front squats as my assistance on DL day and do DLs on my squat so that I can get the lifts in twice a week.
[/quote]

Would this be a good idea for upper body days as well? I.E. 5/3/1 Bench followed by BBB Military, and 5/3/1 Military followed by BBB Bench

thanks,
Knate

[quote]bABoon wrote:

[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
I want to add a shoulder assistance exercise to help improve my OH Shoulder Press. I was thinking about doing Shoulder Presses from the pins for 5 sets of 5 at about 85% of my 1RM. I figure that working from a sticking point may help me to improve that. Any other recommendations?[/quote]

No other recommendations. That is probably the single best thing you can do for your Press. Just be careful to maintain overall shoulder health, so work in rear delt work, since the front and medial heads take quite a beating.[/quote]

Also replying to Crispyfish.

I do wide bar dips on chest day and narrow bar dips on Arms day, about 100 a week.

This is what I’m thinking:
OH shoulder press @ 5-3-1
Shrugs for 5 x 10
Lat Raises for 5 x 10
Front Raise for 5 x 10
Seates OH Press from the pins 5x5

I know Jim says only 2-3 exercises total but I seem to recover well, ANACONDA and MAG-10 are rather amazing supp’s. I know you said rear delts but I seem to hit them well on Back days and with neutral wide-grip pull ups. I actually started to get some rear delt pain when doing 45-degree rows, so i.dropped my rear delt raises. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

[quote]knatetheblade wrote:
Would this be a good idea for upper body days as well? I.E. 5/3/1 Bench followed by BBB Military, and 5/3/1 Military followed by BBB Bench

thanks,
Knate
[/quote]

I’ll try it on my next cycle and find out.

You should do the same :slight_smile:

[quote]knatetheblade wrote:

[quote]Jack Urboady wrote:

[quote]Knausome wrote:
This thread shouldn’t be on the second page. Anyway, this cycle I am moving my BBB deadlifts and squats to opposite days. For instance, I’ll do my 3’s week SQ tonight, then follow it up with 3x10 of DL, working up to 5x10 in the next cycle or two. Since I made the switch, I’m not out of commission for days following a Monday DL session.[/quote]

I’ve done exactly the same mate. Do front squats as my assistance on DL day and do DLs on my squat so that I can get the lifts in twice a week.
[/quote]

Would this be a good idea for upper body days as well? I.E. 5/3/1 Bench followed by BBB Military, and 5/3/1 Military followed by BBB Bench

thanks,
Knate
[/quote]

For me, it was a great idea. On my OHP days my shoulders and triceps would be shot after my final work set, and then the ramp down, I wasn’t able to get any real meaningful accessory work in. Switching my bench and overhead press accessory around and doing so with the fatbar has taken a tremendous amount of strain off my joints. I was noticing the benefits by week 3, allowing me to really push the 5/3/1 week.

anybody know how much the fat bar weighs? the one at my gym is extremely light, and there’s no way its 135 when there’s a 45 on each side.

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
anybody know how much the fat bar weighs? the one at my gym is extremely light, and there’s no way its 135 when there’s a 45 on each side.[/quote]

Does your gym have a scale? If so, weigh yourself and then weigh yourself holding the bar. The difference is the bar weight.

[quote]blake b wrote:

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
anybody know how much the fat bar weighs? the one at my gym is extremely light, and there’s no way its 135 when there’s a 45 on each side.[/quote]

Does your gym have a scale? If so, weigh yourself and then weigh yourself holding the bar. The difference is the bar weight.
[/quote]

haha I’m familiar with math :slight_smile: no scale, my university rec center is all about self esteem. Case in point- for a while, sleeveless shirts were outlawed in “self image” (weight room) areas. Thankfully that rule has since been eliminated.

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:

[quote]blake b wrote:

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
anybody know how much the fat bar weighs? the one at my gym is extremely light, and there’s no way its 135 when there’s a 45 on each side.[/quote]

Does your gym have a scale? If so, weigh yourself and then weigh yourself holding the bar. The difference is the bar weight.
[/quote]

haha I’m familiar with math :slight_smile: no scale, my university rec center is all about self esteem. Case in point- for a while, sleeveless shirts were outlawed in “self image” (weight room) areas. Thankfully that rule has since been eliminated.[/quote]

How lame. Do they at least let you do deadlifts and cleans?

deadlifts yes, cleans no. Olympic lifts are not allowed “because you are using momentum and the weight is not under your control”. I’m sure some jackass did something dangerous or got hurt. A lot of non-lifter types come through around the start of the semester in August and January.

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
deadlifts yes, cleans no. Olympic lifts are not allowed “because you are using momentum and the weight is not under your control”. I’m sure some jackass did something dangerous or got hurt. A lot of non-lifter types come through around the start of the semester in August and January.[/quote]
Quoted for emphasis. Me and UFgator lift at the same place…some kids definitely provide GREAT entertainment between sets, lol.

And yeah man, that fat bar in the gym is definitely not 45lbs. If I remember correctly though, real fatbars are actually heavier than 45lbs. I remember CT saying something about how much his fatbar weighs and it was more than 45.

I actually talked to the manager of my college ‘recreation center’. She was way overweight, didn’t know basic weightlifting terms, and thought powerlifting was olympic lifting.

was curious if anyone has used front squats for 5/3/1? i currently do then use back squats 5x8-10. i had a back issue a few years ago that led to me useing the front squat for my primary movement. began to enjoy them so i currently use them for strength( highest max was a 455) then the back squat to gain size was just curious if others have any experience with useing the front squat for their squatting movement

[quote]bignmean50 wrote:
was curious if anyone has used front squats for 5/3/1? i currently do then use back squats 5x8-10. i had a back issue a few years ago that led to me useing the front squat for my primary movement. began to enjoy them so i currently use them for strength( highest max was a 455) then the back squat to gain size was just curious if others have any experience with useing the front squat for their squatting movement[/quote]

I did, I used them as a preparation to squats.
I too had a back issue, decided to front squat and started with no weight, worked up to 5 sets of 15 or so then added weight. I did 9 cycles of 5/3/1 stating with 65kg (got 11) and decided once I got over 100kg I woul allow myself to squat properly, at the end of cycle 9 I did 107.5kg x 1 with a bit left in the tank. Then I started squatting using 77.5kg (got 12) I’ve just finished cycle 7, and got 105kg x 12.

In the past month I have raised my Flat Bench 10 pounds and my inclines by 15 pounds using this setup. I use it on my bench day. It has given me a more explosive bench out of the bottom without hurting my top end. It will be a few more months of this before I see how it pans out long term but the initial results are promising. It doesn’t wipe me out as much, either, because of the reduced negatives. And the chains, aside from helping your speed, take some of the initial jerk out of the pin presses, saving your wrists.

Here’s how to approach it.

1.) You will first need to test two lifts in the same week but not the same day, to establish your starting point.: Flat Bench Press, and Dead Benches from the pins (no chains) with the bar barely touching the chest. Use good form.

2.) On bench day, the first movement is the dead benches w/chain (I use the chain guidelines EliteFTS uses based on my actual bench). My first week was for 75% of the dead bench 1RM, for 5 sets of 3, clustered at 15 seconds between reps. Each week, I added 5 percent and stuck to the table. This Sunday, I did 95% for 4 sets of 2 with 30 seconds between reps.

3.) Since I did not want to lose the feel of heavy weight, my lowering strength, or develop a new sticking point, I use boards for a second movement. This is the 5/3/1 part. Do 90 percent of the flat bench press to start the first wave and each wave add 5 pounds like Wendler says. Now , convert that number for the boards you will use (I got the numbers from a Wendler article called Max Effort Made Easy). 2-Boards are 105% of the Flat Bench, 1 Board is 102.5% FBP, 3-Board is 115% FBP. So when I started, 90% of my 225 Flat was about 205 rounded up, I converted that to 215 for 2-Board and computed my reps for the day using that number. And since you did dead benches first, you don’t need to warm up much for the boards. You can either do just the prescribed reps or rep out on the last set.

4.) Each wave, I will add 5 pounds to my Dead Bench 1RM and start over. My 5/3/1 movement will cycle each wave 2bd/1bd/3bd/1bd and back again.

5.) Military Press Day stays the same. And pick good accessory movements. The idea for the bench day template came from the EliteFTS Beginners Manual: their speed day is 8 sets of 3 speed benches followed by 3x3 with the boards.

I’ll post more as I go along.

Anyone see that he’s going to be releasing a “5/3/1 for powerlifting” book soon. Personally I’m pretty excited about this.

Just an update:

Last cycle I started using kettlebells for assistance work.

They didn’t really work well. Although it was only four weeks, and you need to give things time to evaluate things, I feel that was enough, because my diet and recovery didn’t change, but my performance on the big lifts suffered, both on paper (the numbers) and in the gym (the feel).

In short, I feel kettlebells - or at least the way I was using them aren’t great for developing strength - at least compared to dumbbells, barbells and bodyweight exercises.

Take from that what you want…

hm, to what extent were you using them? could we see a break down of your stats and the weights and moves you used? not critiscising, but curious as i find them good for conditioning (mainly snatches)

also, i have hit a wall with 5x10 ohp, after increasing it by 10kg in 1.5kg increments fairly quickly. all the main and assistance lifts are fine. i was thinking of switching to 5x5 for assistance. any other suggesstions?