Aurik, don’t bump the max, stay the course and break your rep PR’s.
Agreed. That formula is not an absolute. Stay the course, be patient, do the program as written and you will make gains.
There are an insane amount of pages dedicated to 5/3/1 and many posts are from dudes who retested their maxes, or made 10+lb jumps and stalled out.
[quote]danjo228 wrote:
Agreed. That formula is not an absolute. Stay the course, be patient, do the program as written and you will make gains.
There are an insane amount of pages dedicated to 5/3/1 and many posts are from dudes who retested their maxes, or made 10+lb jumps and stalled out.[/quote]
Agreed.
If what you are doing is working, why change it?
There is serious risk of stalling due to maxes being set too high with this programme. Jim was 100% right when he emphasized starting ‘too light’. You will NOT get weaker by doing this, you will prolong progress.
I’m in pretty dire need of some more back work. I don’t train for asthetics(though it is a consideration, just not my primary motive) but my chest and back are totally out of proportion. I need some more horizontal back work.
I want to compete in a local strongman competition ASAP. But at a guess I’m still a good two years at least from where I’ll need to be in order to be a serious competitor. So I want a big strong back for that.
I’ve been doing BBB for 3 cycles(this being my 5/3/1 week of my third cycle) and while my bench is after getting much more comfortable(I had an injury during the summer that drastically affected my ability to bench at all) by back still sucks. I was using Kroc Rows for the first two cycles but seeing as my gym only has flimsy DB’s I moved to Barbell Rows for the third cycle. Thanks to both, my upper back is now a lot stronger than it has ever been(not saying much, trust me) but it’s still crazily flat compared to my chest.
So, in order to keep some volume on my bench but still have more horizontal pulling than horizontal pushing, I was thinking of something along the lines of this(for tomorrow’s workout):
Bench Press-
70% X 5 reps
80% X 5 reps
90% X 1+ reps
80% X 3 reps
70% X 5+ reps
Barbell Row-
‘X’ weight for 5x10
T-Bar Row-
‘X’ weight for 5x10
Rear Laterals-
(I just do these on upper body days anyway)
Curlz for the gurlz-
(As above, just some added work if I feel up for it at the end of the session)
Anybody see a problem with that set-up…?
No it looks good. I was doing BBB for a while to but I dropped and am now following a similar set up for my main left.
The only thing I might change is dropping either the barbell or the t bar row and replacing it with the cable row to really focus on the back. I would then do the dropped movement (barbell or t bar row) on the ohp day.
So you would do barbell row and cable row and then ohp day do the t bar row.
[quote]Jereth127 wrote:
I’m in pretty dire need of some more back work. I don’t train for asthetics(though it is a consideration, just not my primary motive) but my chest and back are totally out of proportion. I need some more horizontal back work.
I want to compete in a local strongman competition ASAP. But at a guess I’m still a good two years at least from where I’ll need to be in order to be a serious competitor. So I want a big strong back for that.
I’ve been doing BBB for 3 cycles(this being my 5/3/1 week of my third cycle) and while my bench is after getting much more comfortable(I had an injury during the summer that drastically affected my ability to bench at all) by back still sucks. I was using Kroc Rows for the first two cycles but seeing as my gym only has flimsy DB’s I moved to Barbell Rows for the third cycle. Thanks to both, my upper back is now a lot stronger than it has ever been(not saying much, trust me) but it’s still crazily flat compared to my chest.
So, in order to keep some volume on my bench but still have more horizontal pulling than horizontal pushing, I was thinking of something along the lines of this(for tomorrow’s workout):
Bench Press-
70% X 5 reps
80% X 5 reps
90% X 1+ reps
80% X 3 reps
70% X 5+ reps
Barbell Row-
‘X’ weight for 5x10
T-Bar Row-
‘X’ weight for 5x10
Rear Laterals-
(I just do these on upper body days anyway)
Curlz for the gurlz-
(As above, just some added work if I feel up for it at the end of the session)
Anybody see a problem with that set-up…?[/quote]
In the upper body days I would prioritize and do any/all back exercises and weak points first in the workout, so on press day do the pull ups before the dips, even if you compromise your volume and weight on the dips, dead lift first obviously on DL day which you most likely do anyway and on BP day do the rows before the DB press’s.
If you have access, use a KB to do swings with for conditioning and Hamstring work, plus upper back work on squat day for example instead of leg curls or press’s do KB swings and you’ll never look back, plus you’ll soon have a back to big for your favorite shirt 
Good luck
So here’s the routine I’ve come up with based on 5/3/1. Please critique:
Saturday: Bench Press
Bench Press (5/3/1)
Bench Press (Boring but Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Pendlay Rows (5x10)
Monday: Squats
Squats (5/3/1)
Squats (Boring But Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Leg Curls (5x10)
Wednesday: Press
Press (5/3/1)
Press (Boring But Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Skullcrushers (3x10)
Ab Crunches (5xmax)
Thursday: Deadlifts
Deadlifts (5/3/1)
BB Shrugs (3x5 - as heavy as I can get 'em)
Lat Pulldowns (4x5 - as heavy as I can get 'em)
45-degree hyperextensions (3x10)
I considered doing boring but big on the deadlifts, but the 3 sets kick my ass enough as it is, so I figured I’d hit the traps, lats, and erectors/glutes/hamstrings separately. Is there anything that you would explicitly change/add/remove from this program?
Thanks in advance!
[quote]Aurik wrote:
So here’s the routine I’ve come up with based on 5/3/1. Please critique:
Saturday: Bench Press
Bench Press (5/3/1)
Bench Press (Boring but Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Pendlay Rows (5x10)
Monday: Squats
Squats (5/3/1)
Squats (Boring But Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Leg Curls
Wednesday: Press
Press (5/3/1)
Press (Boring But Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Skullcrushers (3x10)
Ab Crunches (5xmax)
Thursday: Deadlifts
Deadlifts (5/3/1)
BB Shrugs (3x5 - as heavy as I can get 'em)
Lat Pulldowns (4x5 - as heavy as I can get 'em)
45-degree hyperextensions (3x10)
I considered doing boring but big on the deadlifts, but the 3 sets kick my ass enough as it is, so I figured I’d hit the traps, lats, and erectors/glutes/hamstrings separately. Is there anything that you would explicitly change/add/remove from this program?
Thanks in advance![/quote]
This looks solid, I would only add more hamstring work but that’s just me, you know what you need to work more. Make sure you stick to it for a while and don’t stress the progression on the BB sets too much.
Yeah, I corrected the hamstrings to say 5x10 (5 sets 10 reps), and I’m making sure to go high enough on the 45-degree hypers to hit the hamstrings. I’m sticking to 50% of my training 1RM on the BBB sets, and even at that relatively low weight they’re kicking my ass. Yesterday I didn’t even want to START the 4th or 5th set of presses much less finish them (but I did finish them… barely).
I know this has probably been answered before, but after the first cycle of 5/3/1, do I add 5/10 lbs. to my ACTUAL 1RM or do I add it to the 90% training max?
Also, on the deload weeks, am I also supposed to “deload” on assistance exercises, or is that only for the main lifts?
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
I know this has probably been answered before, but after the first cycle of 5/3/1, do I add 5/10 lbs. to my ACTUAL 1RM or do I add it to the 90% training max?
Also, on the deload weeks, am I also supposed to “deload” on assistance exercises, or is that only for the main lifts?[/quote]
It doesn’t really matter. Adding it to your actual max is the equivalent of adding 4.5/9 lbs to your training max. Not a big difference.
Thanks, OBoile
[quote]OBoile wrote:
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
I know this has probably been answered before, but after the first cycle of 5/3/1, do I add 5/10 lbs. to my ACTUAL 1RM or do I add it to the 90% training max?
Also, on the deload weeks, am I also supposed to “deload” on assistance exercises, or is that only for the main lifts?[/quote]
It doesn’t really matter. Adding it to your actual max is the equivalent of adding 4.5/9 lbs to your training max. Not a bit difference.[/quote]
I did that when I first started too but I believe you add it to the training max. The 90% is only to get you started, once you get that number completely forget about the 90% thing until you need to reset again in 6+ months.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]OBoile wrote:
[quote]Nate86 wrote:
I know this has probably been answered before, but after the first cycle of 5/3/1, do I add 5/10 lbs. to my ACTUAL 1RM or do I add it to the 90% training max?
Also, on the deload weeks, am I also supposed to “deload” on assistance exercises, or is that only for the main lifts?[/quote]
It doesn’t really matter. Adding it to your actual max is the equivalent of adding 4.5/9 lbs to your training max. Not a bit difference.[/quote]
I did that when I first started too but I believe you add it to the training max. The 90% is only to get you started, once you get that number completely forget about the 90% thing until you need to reset again in 6+ months.[/quote]
After a few cycles I think you really get a feel for the numbers you should be using for each lift anyway
I have a random comment/complaint.
So everything is going super awesome lately (well everything but squat)
I got my deadlift up to 220X5 for my 5/3/1 week, and my bench is finally coming along.
So before all my workouts (except squat) I feel strong/excited. Like I KNOW I am going to go in there and kill it because week after week I always do.
BUT then comes squat.
WHere now I find even mid rep all I can think about is how lame it is that my squat is like 100lbs less than my deadlift. It’s hard to feel strong/awesome when you’re berating yourself haha.
Then I find I can’t bust out the reps or get up the motivation to do well because I am so obviously weak squaty… not that squaty is a word.
I guess I don’t really have much of a point, just felt like posting in this thread again.
I wish i could tell myself I was awesome even if I am barely squatting more than my bench, but then my brain would be like um… that’s a blatent lie.
i almost feel that way about my ohp, i feel its really weak (64kg x8 today), i feel it wont be ‘strong’ till im repping 80-100kg at least. but i cant wait for it to be there, and that ‘excitement’ keeps me chomping at the bit. maybe you just need to change your perspective
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
I have a random comment/complaint.
So everything is going super awesome lately (well everything but squat)
I got my deadlift up to 220X5 for my 5/3/1 week, and my bench is finally coming along.
So before all my workouts (except squat) I feel strong/excited. Like I KNOW I am going to go in there and kill it because week after week I always do.
BUT then comes squat.
WHere now I find even mid rep all I can think about is how lame it is that my squat is like 100lbs less than my deadlift. It’s hard to feel strong/awesome when you’re berating yourself haha.
Then I find I can’t bust out the reps or get up the motivation to do well because I am so obviously weak squaty… not that squaty is a word.
I guess I don’t really have much of a point, just felt like posting in this thread again.
I wish i could tell myself I was awesome even if I am barely squatting more than my bench, but then my brain would be like um… that’s a blatent lie. [/quote]
For most people, the squat is always the most difficult lift to master, especially early on in your training. While the bench and deadlift are very technical lifts, the squat is usually the lift that needs the most attention. It took me over a year of practice to figure out what squatting style works best for me. Just keep at it and always practice.
[quote]Ebolarama wrote:
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
I have a random comment/complaint.
So everything is going super awesome lately (well everything but squat)
I got my deadlift up to 220X5 for my 5/3/1 week, and my bench is finally coming along.
So before all my workouts (except squat) I feel strong/excited. Like I KNOW I am going to go in there and kill it because week after week I always do.
BUT then comes squat.
WHere now I find even mid rep all I can think about is how lame it is that my squat is like 100lbs less than my deadlift. It’s hard to feel strong/awesome when you’re berating yourself haha.
Then I find I can’t bust out the reps or get up the motivation to do well because I am so obviously weak squaty… not that squaty is a word.
I guess I don’t really have much of a point, just felt like posting in this thread again.
I wish i could tell myself I was awesome even if I am barely squatting more than my bench, but then my brain would be like um… that’s a blatent lie. [/quote]
For most people, the squat is always the most difficult lift to master, especially early on in your training. While the bench and deadlift are very technical lifts, the squat is usually the lift that needs the most attention. It took me over a year of practice to figure out what squatting style works best for me. Just keep at it and always practice.
[/quote]
This is true, I know I have NO idea what’my’ squat stance is yet. And caveman maybe that is why it’s hard for me to get a good perspective on it because as it stands right now I don’t think I’ll be able to improve much until I can find a stance that actually works haha.
Can’t get excited for future continuing to suck!
Some dude was helping me with my form last week. I know I like low bar better than high bar, but he was telling me about some thumbless grip toes pointed way out stuff. Didn’t feel right at all…
Not to sure if wide legged is for me either, a trainer told me it looks like I have trouble keeeping weight in my heels so I think that’s the first thing I really need to work on.
[quote]Aurik wrote:
So here’s the routine I’ve come up with based on 5/3/1. Please critique:
Saturday: Bench Press
Bench Press (5/3/1)
Bench Press (Boring but Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Pendlay Rows (5x10)
Monday: Squats
Squats (5/3/1)
Squats (Boring But Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Leg Curls (5x10)
Wednesday: Press
Press (5/3/1)
Press (Boring But Big - 5x10 @ 50% 1RM)
Skullcrushers (3x10)
Ab Crunches (5xmax)
Thursday: Deadlifts
Deadlifts (5/3/1)
BB Shrugs (3x5 - as heavy as I can get 'em)
Lat Pulldowns (4x5 - as heavy as I can get 'em)
45-degree hyperextensions (3x10)
I considered doing boring but big on the deadlifts, but the 3 sets kick my ass enough as it is, so I figured I’d hit the traps, lats, and erectors/glutes/hamstrings separately. Is there anything that you would explicitly change/add/remove from this program?
Thanks in advance![/quote]
I would drop the lat pulldowns off of the deadlift day and throw them in on the press day, or just drop them and do pull ups on your pressing day instead.
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
[quote]Ebolarama wrote:
[quote]Spock81 wrote:
I have a random comment/complaint.
So everything is going super awesome lately (well everything but squat)
I got my deadlift up to 220X5 for my 5/3/1 week, and my bench is finally coming along.
So before all my workouts (except squat) I feel strong/excited. Like I KNOW I am going to go in there and kill it because week after week I always do.
BUT then comes squat.
WHere now I find even mid rep all I can think about is how lame it is that my squat is like 100lbs less than my deadlift. It’s hard to feel strong/awesome when you’re berating yourself haha.
Then I find I can’t bust out the reps or get up the motivation to do well because I am so obviously weak squaty… not that squaty is a word.
I guess I don’t really have much of a point, just felt like posting in this thread again.
I wish i could tell myself I was awesome even if I am barely squatting more than my bench, but then my brain would be like um… that’s a blatent lie. [/quote]
For most people, the squat is always the most difficult lift to master, especially early on in your training. While the bench and deadlift are very technical lifts, the squat is usually the lift that needs the most attention. It took me over a year of practice to figure out what squatting style works best for me. Just keep at it and always practice.
[/quote]
This is true, I know I have NO idea what’my’ squat stance is yet. And caveman maybe that is why it’s hard for me to get a good perspective on it because as it stands right now I don’t think I’ll be able to improve much until I can find a stance that actually works haha.
Can’t get excited for future continuing to suck!
Some dude was helping me with my form last week. I know I like low bar better than high bar, but he was telling me about some thumbless grip toes pointed way out stuff. Didn’t feel right at all…
Not to sure if wide legged is for me either, a trainer told me it looks like I have trouble keeeping weight in my heels so I think that’s the first thing I really need to work on.[/quote]
Spock
Don’t get too caught up in everything else. For your feet placement: act like you are about to jump wherever your feet are positioned that’s where they should be for the squat. Don’t get caught up in elbow, hand or thumb placement do what is comfortable. If your a beginner focus on your back and descent/rise is good form, (sit back, make sure your weight is on your heels/outside feet, knees don’t crumble in, big belly of air). Get the big stuff and then the minor stuff. Like Jim says don’t major in minors!!
Beginning squatters need volume to get their form down so you might want to shelf 5/3/1 for your squats and do a Bill Starr 5X5 routine. You’ll squat three times a week light medium and heavy. If you really want to stay with 5/3/1 I would do BBB 5X10 squats on your deadlift day. The more you squat the better your form will get.