Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 4

Training Powerlifting
321

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
Jereth127, as long as you do the lifts, you are cool. Don’t overthink it. First, last…it is a deload week. It doesn’t really matter.[/quote]

Cool.
I try not to overthink the small things but there are times when I forget to follow my own advice heh.[/quote]

Easy to do. I am guilty of it myself from time to time. On a brighter note, SQUAT today! Week of 5. I am looking forward to getting after it. Last cycle I hit 369x10. I have a working weight of 374 for today. Any predictions?

322

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:

[quote]Jack Urboady wrote:
Went with the BBB template. Been doing it since then.

I’m entering my tenth cycle.
[/quote]

Congrats on your progress but fuck are you not bored with doing BBB for almost a year? Have you tried other assistance work?[/quote]

Cheers Jereth mate

I mix up the assistance work to keep it fresh. Sometimes drop the sets to 3 and and add more exercises in.

323

[quote]bABoon wrote:

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
Jereth127, as long as you do the lifts, you are cool. Don’t overthink it. First, last…it is a deload week. It doesn’t really matter.[/quote]

Cool.
I try not to overthink the small things but there are times when I forget to follow my own advice heh.[/quote]

Easy to do. I am guilty of it myself from time to time. On a brighter note, SQUAT today! Week of 5. I am looking forward to getting after it. Last cycle I hit 369x10. I have a working weight of 374 for today. Any predictions?
[/quote]
Damn dude, I can’t wait to be in that weight range…

Predictions, I say you’ll hit it for 143

324

[quote]inkaddict wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
Jereth127, as long as you do the lifts, you are cool. Don’t overthink it. First, last…it is a deload week. It doesn’t really matter.[/quote]

Cool.
I try not to overthink the small things but there are times when I forget to follow my own advice heh.[/quote]

Easy to do. I am guilty of it myself from time to time. On a brighter note, SQUAT today! Week of 5. I am looking forward to getting after it. Last cycle I hit 369x10. I have a working weight of 374 for today. Any predictions?
[/quote]
Damn dude, I can’t wait to be in that weight range…

Predictions, I say you’ll hit it for 143 [/quote]

Fuck me that is ambitious, haha. Finishing the chapter in STEP-UP on Ambulatory medicine, then training time. I’m going to break in the new Oly lifting shoes today.

325

Close. 374x10. New PR though.

326

[quote]bABoon wrote:

[quote]inkaddict wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:

[quote]Jereth127 wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
Jereth127, as long as you do the lifts, you are cool. Don’t overthink it. First, last…it is a deload week. It doesn’t really matter.[/quote]

Cool.
I try not to overthink the small things but there are times when I forget to follow my own advice heh.[/quote]

Easy to do. I am guilty of it myself from time to time. On a brighter note, SQUAT today! Week of 5. I am looking forward to getting after it. Last cycle I hit 369x10. I have a working weight of 374 for today. Any predictions?
[/quote]
Damn dude, I can’t wait to be in that weight range…

Predictions, I say you’ll hit it for 143 [/quote]

Fuck me that is ambitious, haha. Finishing the chapter in STEP-UP on Ambulatory medicine, then training time. I’m going to break in the new Oly lifting shoes today.
[/quote]

You were close. 374x10 ;). New PR though.

327

[quote]bABoon wrote:
You were close. 374x10 ;). New PR though.[/quote]

Nice!

Where in Ohio? I’m in the Dayton Area.

LA

328

[quote]LA wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
You were close. 374x10 ;). New PR though.[/quote]

Nice!

Where in Ohio? I’m in the Dayton Area.

LA
[/quote]

Thanks. I am in Toledo (technically Sylvania). Where about in Dayton? I’ve got a roomie from there, & a friend of mine did a PL meet at Dave Rick’s place.

329

[quote]bABoon wrote:

[quote]LA wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
You were close. 374x10 ;). New PR though.[/quote]

Nice!

Where in Ohio? I’m in the Dayton Area.

LA
[/quote]

Thanks. I am in Toledo (technically Sylvania). Where about in Dayton? I’ve got a roomie from there, & a friend of mine did a PL meet at Dave Rick’s place. [/quote]

Fairborn, about 10 miles east of Dayton.

I am going to be playing rugby up in Toledo in September.

330

[quote]bABoon wrote:
BBB seems to be the overwhelming favorite for assistance. Who else uses the Triumvirate? Currently, my training week looks like this:
MONDAY: Squat (5/3/1), Squat (15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps), RDL (10 reps), Front Squat (15 reps), Low Back, Conditioning=PROWLER
TUESDAY: Bench (5/3/1), Bench (15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps), Prone Rows(15 reps), Close-grip Incline (18 reps), Abs, Conditioning=Medley/Hills
WEDNESDAY: Barbell circuits
THURSDAY: Deadlift (5/3/1), Deadlift (10 reps), Good Morning (10 reps), Lunges (24 reps), Low Back, Conditioning=PROWLER
FRIDAY: Military (5/3/1), Military (15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps), NG Chins (18 reps; 1x AMRAP), Dips ("), Abs, Conditioning=Medley/Hills
SATURDAY/SUNDAY: Typically nothing. I will do some pre-hab, abs, or running if I really want to.
[/quote]

Right now my template kinda looks like this:

Mon: Squat (5/3/1), possible accessory deadlift (time permitting)
Tues: Bench (5/3/1), inverted rows, dips
Thurs: Deads (5/3/1), board presses
Sat: Press (5/3/1), accessory squat

331

Astar, I like that template. Looks efficient. How is your progress going?

332

[quote]Astar wrote:

[quote]bABoon wrote:
BBB seems to be the overwhelming favorite for assistance. Who else uses the Triumvirate? Currently, my training week looks like this:
MONDAY: Squat (5/3/1), Squat (15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps), RDL (10 reps), Front Squat (15 reps), Low Back, Conditioning=PROWLER
TUESDAY: Bench (5/3/1), Bench (15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps), Prone Rows(15 reps), Close-grip Incline (18 reps), Abs, Conditioning=Medley/Hills
WEDNESDAY: Barbell circuits
THURSDAY: Deadlift (5/3/1), Deadlift (10 reps), Good Morning (10 reps), Lunges (24 reps), Low Back, Conditioning=PROWLER
FRIDAY: Military (5/3/1), Military (15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps), NG Chins (18 reps; 1x AMRAP), Dips ("), Abs, Conditioning=Medley/Hills
SATURDAY/SUNDAY: Typically nothing. I will do some pre-hab, abs, or running if I really want to.
[/quote]

Right now my template kinda looks like this:

Mon: Squat (5/3/1), possible accessory deadlift (time permitting)
Tues: Bench (5/3/1), inverted rows, dips
Thurs: Deads (5/3/1), board presses
Sat: Press (5/3/1), accessory squat
[/quote]

I think you need more upper back work. You have 4 pressing type lifts (bp, dips, board presses, press) and only inverted rows. I am curious why you are doing basically total body 2 of your 4 days? Without knowing your age or lifting experience, I suggest moving a few things around. E.g. Switch your Thurs board presses with your Friday accessory squat. That will give your muscles more recovery time. Just my .02 worth.

333

[quote]bABoon wrote:
Astar, I like that template. Looks efficient. How is your progress going?[/quote]

Yea I switched over to 5/3/1 because I felt my training was getting too complicated and wanted to get back to some simple progression for a while. So far it’s going well but I’m only finishing the first cycle now. I did hit a new 5 rep PR in squats and came within 5 pounds of a couple of my all time PRs so I’m feeling good about it

334

[quote]bABoon wrote:
BBB seems to be the overwhelming favorite for assistance. Who else uses the Triumvirate? Currently, my training week looks like this:

[/quote]

Yeh I use the Triumvirate (sort of)

Military Press: MP, Pullups, Flat/Low Incline Dumbbell Presses, Arms
Deadlift: Deads, Single Leg (Lunges/Split Squats), Goodmornings
Bench: BP, Rows (Db/Bb/Seated), Seated DB Military, Arms
Squat: Squat, Single Leg, Db Swings (for Hammies/Glutes)

I just had a look back in my logs, heres my progress:

8 Months of 5/3/1 (started 1st Dec 2009, post an 8 month weight loss stint):

Bench: 67.5 kg x 5 to 80kg x 9 (with a new 1RM of 95 kg’s)
Military: 37.5 kg x 10 to 55 kg x 8
Squat: 85 kg x 6 to 110 kg x 5
Deadlift: 115 kg x 3 to 140 kg x 9

Bodyweight: 69.5 kg to 75 kg (and the past 2-3 months Ive been eating at maintenance level)

Not trying to suck 5/3/1’s dick, but it shows what slow, steady progress can do…

335

[quote]blake b wrote:

[quote]Astar wrote:

Right now my template kinda looks like this:

Mon: Squat (5/3/1), possible accessory deadlift (time permitting)
Tues: Bench (5/3/1), inverted rows, dips
Thurs: Deads (5/3/1), board presses
Sat: Press (5/3/1), accessory squat
[/quote]

I think you need more upper back work. You have 4 pressing type lifts (bp, dips, board presses, press) and only inverted rows. I am curious why you are doing basically total body 2 of your 4 days? Without knowing your age or lifting experience, I suggest moving a few things around. E.g. Switch your Thurs board presses with your Friday accessory squat. That will give your muscles more recovery time. Just my .02 worth. [/quote]

I set it up like this for a couple reasons. One is convience, I train with a group of powerlifters on mondays and thurs. The gym is small and has limited equipment (one bench, one rack and one dl platform) and is usually pretty full so doing much more than the main lifts is difficult. I think the opportunity to train with people stronger and more knowledgable than myself is worth that. So I squat mondays (to take advantage of the mono and squat bar) and pull thurs (to use the dl bar). Since deads are faster I have time after for another lift and since I have the resources I like to use the boards then. The other reason I have full body days is because I like them more, I use to train 4-6 days a week and always have an upper and lower movement, I found this tended to work better for me than an upper/lower split. I split the difference here but typically my preference is for full body.

As far as the upper back work goes I have thought about it. I feel deadlifts do a decent job of hitting the upper back and I never really considered dips to be much of a pressing movement (not in the same way as a bench) but they’re still some inbalance there.

I don’t know if that’s neccessarily a bad thing, as a powerlifter you get tested on your pressing strength so it makes sense to focus more energy on that. I’ve also spent a long time with almost no direct upper back work at all so I added in the rows to ease into it. After a cycle or two with just the rows I may add in another movement such as pullups but I figure I’ll increase the volume slowly.

336

Just finishing up my second cycle. Did all BBB accessory for the first cycle, but felt the deads didn’t really help, if anything, they detracted.

For bench and squat it has been great. Dips are top for the overhead press.

Although it has been said a hundred times, START TOO LIGHT, did this on my overhead press and squat and they are flying along, where as bench is stuttering, but still progressing and deadlift is grinding already.

NB. I still took 90% of my max for bench and deadlift, but they were probably my MAX MAX, as I just tested them, instead of my MAX, if you know what I mean.

Overall, solid program, the best thing is the psychology of it. Less is more. Little and often over the long run. 5 steps forward, 3 steps back. It has re-shaped the way I think about training.

One question, to those that use power cleans, do you utilise the 5/3/1 set/rep scheme? I’ve just been doing 5/6 x 3 before squats, micro ramping, focusing on speed and it works great. Just wanted to hear from the higher rep side of power cleans.

337

[quote]Astar wrote:

[quote]blake b wrote:

[quote]Astar wrote:

Right now my template kinda looks like this:

Mon: Squat (5/3/1), possible accessory deadlift (time permitting)
Tues: Bench (5/3/1), inverted rows, dips
Thurs: Deads (5/3/1), board presses
Sat: Press (5/3/1), accessory squat
[/quote]

I think you need more upper back work. You have 4 pressing type lifts (bp, dips, board presses, press) and only inverted rows. I am curious why you are doing basically total body 2 of your 4 days? Without knowing your age or lifting experience, I suggest moving a few things around. E.g. Switch your Thurs board presses with your Friday accessory squat. That will give your muscles more recovery time. Just my .02 worth. [/quote]

I set it up like this for a couple reasons. One is convience, I train with a group of powerlifters on mondays and thurs. The gym is small and has limited equipment (one bench, one rack and one dl platform) and is usually pretty full so doing much more than the main lifts is difficult. I think the opportunity to train with people stronger and more knowledgable than myself is worth that. So I squat mondays (to take advantage of the mono and squat bar) and pull thurs (to use the dl bar). Since deads are faster I have time after for another lift and since I have the resources I like to use the boards then. The other reason I have full body days is because I like them more, I use to train 4-6 days a week and always have an upper and lower movement, I found this tended to work better for me than an upper/lower split. I split the difference here but typically my preference is for full body.

As far as the upper back work goes I have thought about it. I feel deadlifts do a decent job of hitting the upper back and I never really considered dips to be much of a pressing movement (not in the same way as a bench) but they’re still some inbalance there.

I don’t know if that’s neccessarily a bad thing, as a powerlifter you get tested on your pressing strength so it makes sense to focus more energy on that. I’ve also spent a long time with almost no direct upper back work at all so I added in the rows to ease into it. After a cycle or two with just the rows I may add in another movement such as pullups but I figure I’ll increase the volume slowly.[/quote]

It’s cool you have thought this all out and not just throwing things there. I’d still add in back work. I am currently paying the price for ignoring my upper back all the years I’ve been lifting with shoulder issues. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I do what Jim recommends - between each set of pressing, do a set of pullups or some other upper back exercise (high rep band pull a parts, 1 arm rows, etc). I also finish each upper body workout with band pull a parts and a giant set for rotators. My shoulders haven’t felt this good in years but still aren’t 100%. I’m not sure what 100% feels like anyway.

Happy lifting!

338

[quote]nick.down.under wrote:

One question, to those that use power cleans, do you utilise the 5/3/1 set/rep scheme? I’ve just been doing 5/6 x 3 before squats, micro ramping, focusing on speed and it works great. Just wanted to hear from the higher rep side of power cleans.[/quote]

I’ve been doing power clean with 5/3/1 progrssion as a warm-up for deads; it worked fine, but I never really pushed the reps (I always stopped at 7-8 even if I had more in me).

Jim, however, encourage going AMRAP on these too (within reason…).

339

Have been doing front squats and I missed reps on my 5 week. Now, I missed my overhead on my 3 week. So i guess my question is two fold, should I just call it on all of them and deload, or do I push through this cycle and then take a few steps back max wise? I just don’t know what to do in the middle of the cycle.

340

[quote]wolfen6920 wrote:
Have been doing front squats and I missed reps on my 5 week. Now, I missed my overhead on my 3 week. So i guess my question is two fold, should I just call it on all of them and deload, or do I push through this cycle and then take a few steps back max wise? I just don’t know what to do in the middle of the cycle.[/quote]

Jim has said that front Squats are not acceptable as a replacement for back squats as a main lift in the 5/3/1 program. Do your back squats. Maybe my assistance was bad but I got weaker by that omission.