Wendler's 5/3/1 Program - Part 4

Training Powerlifting
221

[quote]METAL VIPER wrote:
One question for the vets of 5/3/1. I’ve been reading all 4 parts of the 5/3/1 thread and I’m halfway through the third part and I’d seen people were saying that it was working well for squat and deadlift, but their bench and press was struggling. What have you found that helped you get things moving again? A couple higher intensity singles after the sets or what?[/quote]

Not really a veteran, but I’ve been running 5-3-1 for the last six months, so here’s my experience: on OP day, after my third set, I do a set of as many reps as possible with the weight used for the first set (a kind of “back-off” set), then do BP assistance. On BP day, I do the same, using OP assistance.

This way, I’m keeping the overall pressing volume roughly the same, but I train each movement twice as often. This seems to help progressing.

BTW, I also switch lower body assistance…so maybe it’s just me…

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[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]pbclax1 wrote:
Guys, have my 5/3/1 all set up and reading through and seeing metal vipers posting it sounds like were about in the same boat training only 3 days a week on 5/3/1. Currently my setup looks like so:

Military Press - 5/3/1
Seated DB Press 4x6-8
Chin Ups 4-5x5+
BB Curls 3x8-12
Close Grip Bench 2-3x10

Deadlift - 5/3/1
Hack Squat 2-3x10
Back Raises 4x8-10
Weighted Cable Crunch 3x10-12

Bench Press - 5/3/1
Kroc Rows 3x8-12
Dips 3x6-10
Cable Tricep Pushdowns 2-3x8-12

Squat - 5/3/1
Leg Curl 2-3x8-12
Leg Press 2-3x10
Seated Calf Raise 3x10-12

I would be training on Tuesday, Friday and Sunday.

Debating on keeping the 4 main lifts split, or doing something like what Metalviper did…

If you see this metalviper could you private message me?[/quote]

I think you have mixed up “Kroc Rows” with “Bent Over Rows”. Kroc Rows are one all out set and the reps are typically much higher than 8-12.[/quote]

also try front squat and good mornings instead on your squat and deadlift days, and JM presses for triceps on bench day

223

[quote]fabiop wrote:
BTW, I also switch lower body assistance…so maybe it’s just me…[/quote]
No, I also swtich lower body assistance. I would do as you said regarding the upper body, but I combine deads + press on Monday, then do bench on Wednesday, so I don’t want to be fatigued on bench day

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Well metalviper, you just have to see how it works out. Some people it didnt help their bench but others it did. Could be because of various reasons and everyone is different. So who knows, maybe it helps your bench. I think your progress for the lifts stems alot from your choice of assistance work as well.

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[quote]METAL VIPER wrote:

[quote]fabiop wrote:
BTW, I also switch lower body assistance…so maybe it’s just me…[/quote]
I combine deads + press on Monday, then do bench on Wednesday, so I don’t want to be fatigued on bench day[/quote]

It makes sense. I forgot to mention that I’ve been mostly training x3/week, so recovery between pressing days has never been a problem!

226

I was wondering if anyone has used 5/3/1 for cutting. If so did you all add cardio and conditioning or just focus on lifting heavy to maintain strength/muscle and diet for fatloss.

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3rd week of using 5/3/1 for my bench press. 195x5, 225x3, 250x2, 225x3, 195x8… on the third set i did a negative after getting two on my own. worked my way down after that. i think i could of gotten a few more reps on the sets with 225. 250x2 is a pr.

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way to go chuckzilla

metal viper- I started 5/3/1 mid way through the “part 3” thread; my squat is stalling, what were people saying about what worked for squat assistance in parts 1, 2, 3.0-3.5? Deadlift is moving along just fine with bbb.

Anybody out there who sits at a desk all day? it really makes my recovery suck; my hamstrings are usually sore for 6-7 days after deadlifts.

229

[quote]EvanX wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has used 5/3/1 for cutting. If so did you all add cardio and conditioning or just focus on lifting heavy to maintain strength/muscle and diet for fatloss.[/quote]

IIRC, TheDudeAbides went through a cutting phase, using 5-3-1. You can search for his posts on older 5-3-1 threads.

230

[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
metal viper- I started 5/3/1 mid way through the “part 3” thread; my squat is stalling, what were people saying about what worked for squat assistance in parts 1, 2, 3.0-3.5? Deadlift is moving along just fine with bbb.

Anybody out there who sits at a desk all day? it really makes my recovery suck; my hamstrings are usually sore for 6-7 days after deadlifts.[/quote]
I sit at a desk all day and I don’t usually have a problem with recovery. Standard question - are you eating enough protein and calories to aid recovery? I can’t really comment on soreness regards to 5/3/1 - I’m only in my second week. I do 5/3/1 squat and then BBB deadlifts and my soreness hasn’t been bad, but I started my BBB really light because I’m not used to high reps sets due to not going over 5 reps on Texas Method.

About the squat stalling, I mostly saw that people’s benches and presses were the ones stalling; everyone’s deadlifts and squats seemed to chug right along. There were a multitude of suggestions though, such as:

heavy singles ~90% after your third set (not every week)
going set 1, set 2, set 3 - AMRAP, set 2, set 1 - AMRAP
changing accessory work due to weak points
adding 5lbs instead of 10lbs to lower body lifts

I’m not saying any of these work or will work for everyone, but those are the suggestions I remember off the top of my head

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Anyone been using the bodyweight assistance stuff exclusively? If so, how did it/is it going? I can’t recall anyone doing it but I am getting old.

I’m ready to change up my bench assistance to either heavy low incline DB presses or blast strap pushups. If I do the DBs, I’m thinking 4-5 sets of 5-6 reps. For the blast straps, I’m contemplating 2-3 sets to failure on each one. Comments, suggestions? I also do Kroc rows on BP day and chin ups on mil press day. I also do 1-2 sets of improved band facepulls (ala diesel crew) and a giant set of rotator work after each upper body workout. Just wanted to throw that in there before someone tells me I am not doing any back work.

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Just got my push/pull sled. What a motherfucker. I loved it

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[quote]UFgator11 wrote:
way to go chuckzilla

metal viper- I started 5/3/1 mid way through the “part 3” thread; my squat is stalling, what were people saying about what worked for squat assistance in parts 1, 2, 3.0-3.5? Deadlift is moving along just fine with bbb.

Anybody out there who sits at a desk all day? it really makes my recovery suck; my hamstrings are usually sore for 6-7 days after deadlifts.[/quote]

lol I sit pretty much all day long, and yes, it does suck. Aren’t we supposed to get up every half hour and move around?

Squat assistance, or any for that matter - I’ve found training like a bodybuilder has been the greatest training change for me. Higher reps (8-12) and more volume (3-5 sets, several exercises) has been a game changer. I’m the strongest I’ve ever been, but maybe that’s not saying much!

I try to at least double the goal reps. So wave 1 - 8-12 reps; wave 2 - 6-8; wave 3 - 4-6. This has worked well. You do not have to continually use near max weights, or at least 1-3 rep max weights, to get stronger.

234

[quote]fabiop wrote:

[quote]EvanX wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has used 5/3/1 for cutting. If so did you all add cardio and conditioning or just focus on lifting heavy to maintain strength/muscle and diet for fatloss.[/quote]

IIRC, TheDudeAbides went through a cutting phase, using 5-3-1. You can search for his posts on older 5-3-1 threads.[/quote]

I did with mediocre success. I don’t remember starting and final numbers, but it can work. I put all lifts in a freeze and hammered on the cardio. Hindsight, I would have done more variety in my cardio as well as circuits. I wouldn’t say my strength suffered because I was on the up swing again within a month (cycle).

You should look into John Romaniello’s Bodycomp Blitz or Final Phase Fat Loss. Great, challenging programs. I did BCB (6 weeks) this Spring with little/no strength loss. I did get more defined, but never got to a level I was satisfied with because I’m a diet moron.

235

[quote]METAL VIPER wrote:

heavy singles ~90% after your third set (not every week)
going set 1, set 2, set 3 - AMRAP, set 2, set 1 - AMRAP
changing accessory work due to weak points
adding 5lbs instead of 10lbs to lower body lifts

I’m not saying any of these work or will work for everyone, but those are the suggestions I remember off the top of my head[/quote]

All of this as well as re-running a training cycle. Use the same weights, beat your reps.

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So far so good; On the 3’s week, I’ve gotten x12 squat, x12 press, x12 bench. Chugging along and I still love it. Looking forward to deadlifts tomorrow

237

Thought I’d share something I’ve been trying out with some success…

35 years old, just coming to the end of my 13th cycle (only one reset), and can feel a stall being imminent in a couple of lifts. So I’ve been thinking about what I can do to keep things going for a bit longer. We’re also expecting a baby in the next few weeks, so I’ve been thinking about how I can get the most bang for my buck.

I’ve noticed in the past, particularly on presses, that I can actually beat the reps of my top set if I repeat it (e.g. I’ve done 8 reps that felt difficult, rested for 5 mins, then done a comfortable 10 reps with the same weight). However, recently I just haven’t been able to even get 1 more rep, and I’ve been hovering very close to (and even at) the prescribed reps on both sets for several weeks.

So, what I’ve been doing over the past few week is doing my top set (being sensible as usual and only doing the prescribed reps if it feels heavy), but then following that up with 3 heavy singles, and then repeating the top set and going all out. This week’s squat session went like this: (in kg) 110x3, 122.5x3, 140x3 (felt heavy and slow), 140x1, 150x1, 160x1, 165x1 (PR, more in the tank), 140x8 (snappy, and another PR). Assistance has been minimal, particularly for deads and squats (just band GMs on dead day, nothing on squat day other than the pullups I do every session).

Just thought I’d throw that option out there (for those people who’ve done a lot of cycles - if you’ve done less than 8 or 9 I’d stick with it as written). The beauty of 5/3/1 is it’s not really a training program, but a training philosophy, and as such can be applied in many ways for many people.

238

[quote]METAL VIPER wrote:

going set 1, set 2, set 3 - AMRAP, set 2, set 1 - AMRAP

[/quote]

Thanks for the reply; I’m going to try this next Monday.

239

[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:

Squat assistance, or any for that matter - I’ve found training like a bodybuilder has been the greatest training change for me. Higher reps (8-12) and more volume (3-5 sets, several exercises) has been a game changer. I’m the strongest I’ve ever been, but maybe that’s not saying much!

I try to at least double the goal reps. So wave 1 - 8-12 reps; wave 2 - 6-8; wave 3 - 4-6. This has worked well. You do not have to continually use near max weights, or at least 1-3 rep max weights, to get stronger.
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply; I’ve been doing the BBB 5x10 at 55% of my training maxes. My lifts always go better when my flexibility is in order; I’m going to work on my hip/groin/hamstring flexibility. Warming up by foam rolling my hamstrings has helped my deadlift; I’m going to start doing that before squats for IT band, quads along with groin/hip stretches.

240

[quote]ninearms wrote:
Thought I’d share something I’ve been trying out with some success…

35 years old, just coming to the end of my 13th cycle (only one reset), and can feel a stall being imminent in a couple of lifts. So I’ve been thinking about what I can do to keep things going for a bit longer. We’re also expecting a baby in the next few weeks, so I’ve been thinking about how I can get the most bang for my buck.

I’ve noticed in the past, particularly on presses, that I can actually beat the reps of my top set if I repeat it (e.g. I’ve done 8 reps that felt difficult, rested for 5 mins, then done a comfortable 10 reps with the same weight). However, recently I just haven’t been able to even get 1 more rep, and I’ve been hovering very close to (and even at) the prescribed reps on both sets for several weeks.

So, what I’ve been doing over the past few week is doing my top set (being sensible as usual and only doing the prescribed reps if it feels heavy), but then following that up with 3 heavy singles, and then repeating the top set and going all out. This week’s squat session went like this: (in kg) 110x3, 122.5x3, 140x3 (felt heavy and slow), 140x1, 150x1, 160x1, 165x1 (PR, more in the tank), 140x8 (snappy, and another PR). Assistance has been minimal, particularly for deads and squats (just band GMs on dead day, nothing on squat day other than the pullups I do every session).

Just thought I’d throw that option out there (for those people who’ve done a lot of cycles - if you’ve done less than 8 or 9 I’d stick with it as written). The beauty of 5/3/1 is it’s not really a training program, but a training philosophy, and as such can be applied in many ways for many people. [/quote]

Thank you for sharing this tips; I’ve already pasted and copied it in the “Open in case of stalling” text file I keep on my pc desktop :slight_smile: