An observation from my 1st DL session with 5-3-1 today.(5 reps session today)
I went for 5%(75-80-85) jumps and had a goal of 8 reps for the last set.I barely got 5.This was probably because all the while I have been DLing only with one ME set of 3 or 5 reps followed by two back off sets of 5 or 6 reps.My warm up sets are usually singles and triples (even with 135lb)Hence I am not used to 3 “heavy” sets of 5 DLs.
(On the other hand,my OHP session utilizing 5% increments was rather easy…)
Next week,I think it would be better to go for 10% increments.Maybe my takeaway may apply to you as well.
And the Big but Boring template of 5x10 at ~50% looks deceptively easy on paper.
[quote]Doenitz79 wrote:
An observation from my 1st DL session with 5-3-1 today.(5 reps session today)
I went for 5%(75-80-85) jumps and had a goal of 8 reps for the last set.I barely got 5.This was probably because all the while I have been DLing only with one ME set of 3 or 5 reps followed by two back off sets of 5 or 6 reps.My warm up sets are usually singles and triples (even with 135lb)Hence I am not used to 3 “heavy” sets of 5 DLs.
(On the other hand,my OHP session utilizing 5% increments was rather easy…)
Next week,I think it would be better to go for 10% increments.Maybe my takeaway may apply to you as well.
And the Big but Boring template of 5x10 at ~50% looks deceptively easy on paper.[/quote]
I’ve experienced the same thing. In fact, even after a handful of cycles, I often still find myself getting only 5 or 6 reps on the day of 5’s. However, I usually find myself getting 5-7 on the day of 3’s. I think it’s just that we’re doing 3 moderately heavy sets of 5 when we haven’t been conditioned for that.
I don’t think you need to scrap the 5% jumps right away, though. At least run it for a cycle and see how you feel. I mean, it’s only 2 more real sessions anyway.
Actually I smelled a bit of trouble when my first set of 5 felt unusually heavy.
And the last set of 5 today was 35lb lighter than my ME 5RM pull last week,yet it felt like a ton…(And no,my sleep/ recovery and diet has been pretty good all the while) =(
[quote]blake b wrote:
Thanks Jim. I was doing 3 days a week with the occasional 4th day in there. Sometimes my schedule just doesn’t let 4 days a week work.
[/quote]
you could also keep the 3 days/week and do the fourth day on the next week.
For instance, I’m having two busy days this week. So instead of deadlifting on Friday or Saturday, I’m doing it next week Monday during the deload week. Nothing set in stone.
Deadlift (first wave = no belt. 2nd/3rd = with belt)
5 rep 360, 475 +115# (wowie wow wow)
3 rep 455, skipped this day
1 rep 470, 525 +55#
OHP
5 rep 160, 180 +20#
3 rep 165, was out of town
1 rep 175, 190 +15#
On my first and third wave I did straight weight, but the second wave I added chains to the equation. The program didn’t call for it, but I just bought them and wanted to use them. As the numbers suggest; it didn’t hurt.
are those your 1 rep predicted numbers using the calculator?[/quote]
No, those are all actual gym numbers.
When I did my first wave I took my “1RM” and took 5-10lbs off them.
But since for my 1st & 3rd wave ended right before a powerlifting meet; I pushed myself to the limit for my 1RM to get as close to meet numbers as I could.
[quote]Doenitz79 wrote:
Actually I smelled a bit of trouble when my first set of 5 felt unusually heavy.
And the last set of 5 today was 35lb lighter than my ME 5RM pull last week,yet it felt like a ton…(And no,my sleep/ recovery and diet has been pretty good all the while) =([/quote]
Dunno what Jim will say, and I’m far from an expert, but my first 5 day, the final weight was a good 90lb under my true all out 5rm. I ended up pulling 12 and nearly died. I decided to start a bit low and try to get a good solid 3/4 years worth of progress is if I can.
First bench 5 day was 35lb below my 5rm, and only got 8 reps out of it. I was tired there because I was coming off the back of a comp tho (with about 3 days rest).
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Doenitz79 wrote:
Actually I smelled a bit of trouble when my first set of 5 felt unusually heavy.
And the last set of 5 today was 35lb lighter than my ME 5RM pull last week,yet it felt like a ton…(And no,my sleep/ recovery and diet has been pretty good all the while) =(
Dunno what Jim will say, and I’m far from an expert, but my first 5 day, the final weight was a good 90lb under my true all out 5rm. I ended up pulling 12 and nearly died. I decided to start a bit low and try to get a good solid 3/4 years worth of progress is if I can.
First bench 5 day was 35lb below my 5rm, and only got 8 reps out of it. I was tired there because I was coming off the back of a comp tho (with about 3 days rest).[/quote]
this is about right, you should be able to get several more reps after the goal reps of the day, for a couple cycles; this is because you are starting under your max
Hanley, I can’t imagine what kind of numbers you would be putting up doing this for 3 years. Do you plan on doing the ‘normal’ 5/10 lb jumps or smaller?
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
blake b wrote:
Thanks Jim. I was doing 3 days a week with the occasional 4th day in there. Sometimes my schedule just doesn’t let 4 days a week work.
you could also keep the 3 days/week and do the fourth day on the next week.
For instance, I’m having two busy days this week. So instead of deadlifting on Friday or Saturday, I’m doing it next week Monday during the deload week. Nothing set in stone.
[/quote]
That is what I’ve been doing. My days off at work rotate weekly so I can get 3 days in. When the week permitted, I’d throw in a 4th day. Otherwise, it went to the next week. I don’t have a set schedule such as Monday is this, Tuesday is this. For instance, today is DL day. Tomorrow is Mil Press day, but if I don’t get to it, Monday will be mil press day. Whenever I lift, I just pick up where I left off.
I’ve been doing this since June 08. Since then, I have added 70# each to my “maxes” on SQ (started at 300; 370 now) and DL (started at 400,470 now).
My BP and MP suck. I haven’t put much more than 10# on either since I started. Even with a couple resets, I work back up to where I was on them, and stall again.
I only recently began tracking rep maxes. My SQ and DL rep maxes are within 10# of my working maxes. I also never really pushed the reps on DL. I did just the prescribed reps. They are both near resetting now but until I fail at the prescribed reps, I’m going to keep plugging away. I am adding 10# to them each cycle as well and have since the beginning.
I don’t have true “monthly” progress because most of the time, my workouts would be 3 days a week, the 4th day carrying over (got the 4 days in over 10 days). There were occasional times I would take 4-5 days off from lifting as well due to work or family.
This program rocks! I’m not blaming the program for my lack of progress in the upper body lifts. I blame me because I can’t figure out what works for me… yet.
Also, I found out you can overdo the prowler. 3 sessions a week of prowler sprints up a hill after DL and SQ will lead to overuse of the hip flexors. Those bastards kept me awake at night with their aches.
Either going to a 3 day/week training split (not benching every week) or a 4 day/week training - whatever you aren’t doing: DO IT.
Take 5% jumps and perform the 2nd set last - for example:
75x5, 85x5, 80 x as many reps as possible.
Either cut pr add volume to assistance work.
Thanks Jim. I was doing 3 days a week with the occasional 4th day in there. Sometimes my schedule just doesn’t let 4 days a week work.
I’m going to do option #2. Since I’ve been doing triumvirate assistance, based on your suggestions and applying them to my situation, I should increase volume. #2 should provide more and if that doesn’t work, I’ll add in another assistance exercise after a few weeks.
I was wondering the same thing ultimatethor was wondering, do the same on week 3? i.e. 75x5, 95x1, then 85xAMRAP? Also, would you do this for only the offending lifts or for all lifts? I’m getting close to resetting my SQ and DL for the first time since I started and I thought doing this for all lifts for a period of time may provide a good shock to my system.
[/quote]
I’ve been thinking about this and it seems to me to be smarter to leave the last week alone. Going from 75% to 95% seems like too much of a jump to me. I think that’s why Jim suggested doing this with 5% jumps.
[quote]ultimatethor wrote:
blake b wrote:
Jim Wendler wrote:
Blake -
Try doing one of three things:
Either going to a 3 day/week training split (not benching every week) or a 4 day/week training - whatever you aren’t doing: DO IT.
Take 5% jumps and perform the 2nd set last - for example:
75x5, 85x5, 80 x as many reps as possible.
Either cut pr add volume to assistance work.
Thanks Jim. I was doing 3 days a week with the occasional 4th day in there. Sometimes my schedule just doesn’t let 4 days a week work.
I’m going to do option #2. Since I’ve been doing triumvirate assistance, based on your suggestions and applying them to my situation, I should increase volume. #2 should provide more and if that doesn’t work, I’ll add in another assistance exercise after a few weeks.
I was wondering the same thing ultimatethor was wondering, do the same on week 3? i.e. 75x5, 95x1, then 85xAMRAP? Also, would you do this for only the offending lifts or for all lifts? I’m getting close to resetting my SQ and DL for the first time since I started and I thought doing this for all lifts for a period of time may provide a good shock to my system.
I’ve been thinking about this and it seems to me to be smarter to leave the last week alone. Going from 75% to 95% seems like too much of a jump to me. I think that’s why Jim suggested doing this with 5% jumps.[/quote]
I think so too. I just plugged some numbers in and based on my next working max for DL (485), my sets for the last week of the cycle are 365x5, 460x1, and 412xas many as possible. Unless I hear otherwise, I’ll leave the third week alone.
When doing the all-out set, are you supposed to do them in a breathing style?
E.g. Suppose one can deadlift 10 reps of 400 lbs with less than 4s between each rep.
But maybe he can do 20 reps with 15s between each rep. If he’d really take his time, he might get 25!
[quote]blake b wrote:
This program rocks! I’m not blaming the program for my lack of progress in the upper body lifts. I blame me because I can’t figure out what works for me… yet.[/quote]
this should be the take home point - this had made lifting weights fun for me again. Even doing the bare minimum reps has been successful for Jim, and could be for most.
I’m on cycle 5 and have only added 5 lbs to each lift, each cycle. This has been just fine for me.
I have completed 9 cycle,well almost, one more day to go on squat but anyway…
Sone notes:
When i started i was about 202lbs now im at 194 following a carb cycling approach(Shelby style).
Been dieting for the last 3 cycles, even if i have completed 9 cycles, i must say i made the mistake of starting to heavy with record i made when i was at 205 and eating like a animal.
My goal was to maintain or increase stenght while dieting, im not a bodybuilder but with the summer comming up i like to look good.
Stats(using Jim formula)
Military Press
152 now 146
Deadift
363 now 370
Bench
263 now 267
Squat
307 now 313
Well nothing spectacular, but im happy as my form is much better then before especially on deads and squats.Reading Jim advized in the manual really help.The old record were set at 202 and the current record at 195/194. I must say also im all natural, nothing against roids but im all natural.
Also my conditionning really increase with all the cardio been doing lately and on top of it… I FEEL GOOD and MOTIVATED!!
[quote]DF85 wrote:
I am making good progress while loosing weight also.
[/quote]
hmmm, I thought Crank and I were the only weight losers in the bunch … I’ve been losing weight and gaining strength on some lifts, maintaining on others (according to the rep calculator)