[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Just wanna ask some of the more experienced guys with 5/3/1 if any of you lik me werent as used to hitting higher reps did you find the last set a little more difficult than expected. I’m using less than 90% closer to 85% for maxes but found the last set of main lift quite tough with relatively ligth weight. Any thoughts from you guys?
Many people, including myself, who had existed on singles for so long do have trouble at first. There is a huge mental aspect with this training program and how to approach a set. What you have to rememeber is that changing your way of thinking (and your ability to do some more reps) is not going to change overnight. So be patient and give it some time.[/quote]
Good to see your posts as always Jim thanks for the advice.
[quote]Yes something along those lines I was just reading the manual again! and its popped into my head if say i’m benching 100X10 on my last set of the 3X5 does that mean that using the calc in the manual as a rough guide my target to beat next session is 133, so therefore on my final set of 3X3 I would have to complete 105X9. Or does it just mean i have to hit the 105 for at least 3 and not necessarily be concerned on my total, cos a 5% increase is quite a jump even though the maxes are much lower?
Yes my head is completely done after reading this aswell.[/quote]
irishlifting, man, you crazy. You don’t have to beat poundages and reps every week. It says get 3+ reps. so, do 3 reps and then as many more as you can. whether that is 1 rep or 2 or 5 or no more than 3.
I agree though I am used to singles and am also finding the lighter poundages more challenging than I’d expect, but that is good, I assume it is accumulated fatigue, that is what I want, instead of beating myself up with max singles all the time. This way I don’t get close to singles except 1 week in 4. If others’ results are anything to go by, I should be getting good results regardless.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Yes something along those lines I was just reading the manual again! and its popped into my head if say i’m benching 100X10 on my last set of the 3X5 does that mean that using the calc in the manual as a rough guide my target to beat next session is 133, so therefore on my final set of 3X3 I would have to complete 105X9. Or does it just mean i have to hit the 105 for at least 3 and not necessarily be concerned on my total, cos a 5% increase is quite a jump even though the maxes are much lower?
Yes my head is completely done after reading this aswell.
irishlifting, man, you crazy. You don’t have to beat poundages and reps every week. It says get 3+ reps. so, do 3 reps and then as many more as you can. whether that is 1 rep or 2 or 5 or no more than 3.
I agree though I am used to singles and am also finding the lighter poundages more challenging than I’d expect, but that is good, I assume it is accumulated fatigue, that is what I want, instead of beating myself up with max singles all the time. This way I don’t get close to singles except 1 week in 4. If others’ results are anything to go by, I should be getting good results regardless. [/quote]
thanks for the input man good to hear from other lifters on their experience and that Jim boy is a bit of a legend he should be nominated for a grammy or something in the best training protocol category.
Just finished my deload week - I would have thought that I would be feeling deloaded last Monday, or Weds at the latest, but only now (Saturday, last day of deload was Fri) am I starting to feel normal again. So that was a lot of accumulated fatigue in there. Hope to be good again on Monday to start next cycle. Should be OK after eating 2kg of roast lamb … mmmmmmmm
Anyone have a lift (mine is BP and mil press) that just doesn’t seem to go anywhere?
I’ve been on 5/3/1 since June 08 and have made steady progress in the squat and DL to the point I haven’t had to reset either one of them yet but I am am getting close because I only seem to be getting the prescribed reps and occasionally 1-2 more. However, I have reset both BP and MP twice each and every time I work back up, I stall around the same weight I reset from.
I’m guessing this is probably a matter of choosing the correct assistance lifts.
For BP, I’m using OH lockouts (like a seated MP with a limited range of motion) and Kroc Rows. For MP, I’m using Inc DB Press and pull ups. I’m waiting on the arrival of dip bars for my power rack and will use them to see if that helps.
I do know I am a crappy presser in any plane. I can barely BP my own bodyweight 2-3 times (235ish) 2-3 but I can do multiple sets of 5 on BW pullups). My BP strength has actually gone down and stagnated over the past several years, most likely due to a mental block as I have strained both pecs at least twice. MRIs never showed damage to the point of being a tear.
I’m built to DL and I know this is detrimental to my pressing abilities.
Anyone have any advice??? I will stick to 5/3/1 and just keep plugging away until it “clicks”. Also, anyone know of any books, etc that deals with the psychological/mental aspects of lifting? Something to help me get over my mental block I think I have?
[quote]blake b wrote:
Anyone have a lift (mine is BP and mil press) that just doesn’t seem to go anywhere?
I’ve been on 5/3/1 since June 08 and have made steady progress in the squat and DL to the point I haven’t had to reset either one of them yet but I am am getting close because I only seem to be getting the prescribed reps and occasionally 1-2 more. However, I have reset both BP and MP twice each and every time I work back up, I stall around the same weight I reset from.
I’m guessing this is probably a matter of choosing the correct assistance lifts.
For BP, I’m using OH lockouts (like a seated MP with a limited range of motion) and Kroc Rows. For MP, I’m using Inc DB Press and pull ups. I’m waiting on the arrival of dip bars for my power rack and will use them to see if that helps.
I do know I am a crappy presser in any plane. I can barely BP my own bodyweight 2-3 times (235ish) 2-3 but I can do multiple sets of 5 on BW pullups). My BP strength has actually gone down and stagnated over the past several years, most likely due to a mental block as I have strained both pecs at least twice. MRIs never showed damage to the point of being a tear.
I’m built to DL and I know this is detrimental to my pressing abilities.
Anyone have any advice??? I will stick to 5/3/1 and just keep plugging away until it “clicks”. Also, anyone know of any books, etc that deals with the psychological/mental aspects of lifting? Something to help me get over my mental block I think I have?
Thanks guys[/quote]
Have you ever tried playing with and changing your grip width? Maybe you haven’t found your strongest grip yet. You could even try doing more bench for assistance work with a different grip, like some sets of close grip bench.
And how about using front squats as assistance for the deadlift?
Coz I train strongman as well and if I have a separate squat day,I would be hitting lower body 3 times per week.And I dont wish to cycle my DL with my SQ coz I wanna improve my DL weekly.
[quote]Doenitz79 wrote:
Anyone tried the 5-3-1 protocol for dips/chins?
And how about using front squats as assistance for the deadlift?
Coz I train strongman as well and if I have a separate squat day,I would be hitting lower body 3 times per week.And I dont wish to cycle my DL with my SQ coz I wanna improve my DL weekly.
I think for you that strictly trains strongman and needs to improve your deadlift that is the way to go (as long as you like dips) You can always throw the back squat in later after you’ve made strong strides in the deadlift. Your legs do get a lot of work IMO from farmers, yoke, stones, log c&P, axle c&P especially if using a PP or jerk. sled drags etc. Really for strongman not worrying about my back squat so much has helped me tremendously. Its really hard to recover from back squats deadlifts and events.
[quote]Doenitz79 wrote:
Anyone tried the 5-3-1 protocol for dips/chins?
And how about using front squats as assistance for the deadlift?
Coz I train strongman as well and if I have a separate squat day,I would be hitting lower body 3 times per week.And I dont wish to cycle my DL with my SQ coz I wanna improve my DL weekly.
[quote]Kalle
I think for you that strictly trains strongman and needs to improve your deadlift that is the way to go (as long as you like dips) You can always throw the back squat in later after you’ve made strong strides in the deadlift. Your legs do get a lot of work IMO from farmers, yoke, stones, log c&P, axle c&P especially if using a PP or jerk. sled drags etc. Really for strongman not worrying about my back squat so much has helped me tremendously. Its really hard to recover from back squats deadlifts and events. [/quote]
Kalle,I see that you train front squats on a separate day(this was in my original plan)
Regarding the 531 with strongman, I cycle the lifts. I use deadlift, military press, front squat, and bench for my 4 main lifts on a three day week with events being my 4th day. A full cycle would look like this for me:
Week 1
M - Deadlift
T - off
W - Military Press
T - off
F - Front Squat
S - events
S - off
Week 2
M - Bench
T - off
W - DL
T - off
F - MP
S - events
S - off
Week 3
M - FS
T - off
W - BP
T - off
F - DL
S - events
S - off
Week 4
M - MP
T - off
W - FS
T - off
F - BP
S - events
S - off
Week 5
Deload
I’ve been happy with this set up so far, but my lower back does take a beating sometimes. On the weeks where I both squat and deadlift, I try to plan my events day to NOT be a heavy lower body day. I try to plan to do some pressing or grip work or lighter events for speed and technique.
I’ve also cut back on my assistance work during the week in an attempt to keep me fresher throughout the week. I guess I’ll find out if I’m doing the right thing here in 5-6 months.
[quote]Doenitz79 wrote:
Kalle
I think for you that strictly trains strongman and needs to improve your deadlift that is the way to go (as long as you like dips) You can always throw the back squat in later after you’ve made strong strides in the deadlift. Your legs do get a lot of work IMO from farmers, yoke, stones, log c&P, axle c&P especially if using a PP or jerk. sled drags etc. Really for strongman not worrying about my back squat so much has helped me tremendously. Its really hard to recover from back squats deadlifts and events.
Kalle,I see that you train front squats on a separate day(this was in my original plan)
Any problems with lower body recovery?
[/quote]
I tried that. I really kept my percentages low on front squats. My quads are a strong point so it was something I could put on the back burner for awhile I thought (and it payed off.)
I just got done with my comp but my next training cycle I think I will try lighter beltless deadlift stance front squats as an acc 5x3 or something after deadlifts or before events.
As far as lower body recovery not really. My back and hamstrings would be pretty worn out somedays but I ate a shitload, got plenty of rest, did lots of warm ups and stretching, foam rolling, etc. The one thing that accumulated was severe shin splints from walking events and jerks on the log press. I probably peaked a bit to soon for my contest and needed too take some extra rest leading up too it but that might have been a good thing.
[quote]blake b wrote:
Anyone have a lift (mine is BP and mil press) that just doesn’t seem to go anywhere? [/quote]
Deadlift is the bane of my existence. I’m happy with my other lifts. My problem is form and not being consistent. I may also have hamstring firing problems … but whatever no excuses.
just wanted to give you some feedback on my experience with 5/3/1:
I had been training to go to to FLETC for federal law enforcement, running, pullups, pushups for months. during that period i really had no time to lift weights, came back to the weights and my strength sucked!
anyway, just coming to the end of my 2nd cycle, and Deadlift is coming up nicely. started 5/3/1 dead max at 405lbs, hit 395 x 7 two nights ago.
Military max started at 190, hit 185lb x 6 last week.
Bench i started with training max of 325lbs, hit 295 x 9 at one point, 315 x 4. At the start of the second cycle i decided to move my grip in a bit narrower (about 3" each hand) to save the shoulders in the long run, brought my numbers down a bit, but hit 315lb x 2 yesterday.
Squats are embarrassing, but its a work in progress.
I love the program, im planning to compete in a powerlifting competition about a year from now, and hopeful to total elite in 220lb raw class in 2 years. well see how far squat comes along…
[quote]blake b wrote:
Anyone have a lift (mine is BP and mil press) that just doesn’t seem to go anywhere?
I’ve been on 5/3/1 since June 08 and have made steady progress in the squat and DL to the point I haven’t had to reset either one of them yet but I am am getting close because I only seem to be getting the prescribed reps and occasionally 1-2 more. However, I have reset both BP and MP twice each and every time I work back up, I stall around the same weight I reset from.
I’m guessing this is probably a matter of choosing the correct assistance lifts.
For BP, I’m using OH lockouts (like a seated MP with a limited range of motion) and Kroc Rows. For MP, I’m using Inc DB Press and pull ups. I’m waiting on the arrival of dip bars for my power rack and will use them to see if that helps.
I do know I am a crappy presser in any plane. I can barely BP my own bodyweight 2-3 times (235ish) 2-3 but I can do multiple sets of 5 on BW pullups). My BP strength has actually gone down and stagnated over the past several years, most likely due to a mental block as I have strained both pecs at least twice. MRIs never showed damage to the point of being a tear.
I’m built to DL and I know this is detrimental to my pressing abilities.
Anyone have any advice??? I will stick to 5/3/1 and just keep plugging away until it “clicks”. Also, anyone know of any books, etc that deals with the psychological/mental aspects of lifting? Something to help me get over my mental block I think I have?
Thanks guys[/quote]
Are you using 5% jumps or 10% jumps for your sets?
just wanted to give you some feedback on my experience with 5/3/1:
I had been training to go to to FLETC for federal law enforcement, running, pullups, pushups for months. during that period i really had no time to lift weights, came back to the weights and my strength sucked!
anyway, just coming to the end of my 2nd cycle, and Deadlift is coming up nicely. started 5/3/1 dead max at 405lbs, hit 395 x 7 two nights ago.
Military max started at 190, hit 185lb x 6 last week.
Bench i started with training max of 325lbs, hit 295 x 9 at one point, 315 x 4. At the start of the second cycle i decided to move my grip in a bit narrower (about 3" each hand) to save the shoulders in the long run, brought my numbers down a bit, but hit 315lb x 2 yesterday.
Squats are embarrassing, but its a work in progress.
I love the program, im planning to compete in a powerlifting competition about a year from now, and hopeful to total elite in 220lb raw class in 2 years. well see how far squat comes along…[/quote]
Dez,
This is great progress - thanks for letting me know. Good luck with the raw powerlifing.
Do you mean using 5 lbs or 10 lbs jumps? In your book you said add 5 lbs / 10 lbs to the max then recalculate the sets for everything using that new max.
So a max of say 100 lbs bench becomes 105 lbs for the next cycle.
And a max bench of 300 lbs in cycle one, becomes a max bench of 305 lbs in cycle two.
Please don’t surprise us all by saying you meant 5 percent or 10 percent all along … that would change everything!
I have done one cycle and 1 day. I am no expert on 5-3-1 but it seems to be working. I am not getting many reps over the prescribed reps … today I got 6 instead of 5, last week I got 6 instead of 1, this is good, but I am not getting say 10 reps. But then, I did the harder loading, I am quite sure that is taking it out of me a bit. I think I will switch to the lighter loading wave after this cycle.