Do you guys think the deload week is mandatory after every 5/3/1 cycle. I was thinking of doing 2 full cycle before deloading…Any opinion??
[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Do you guys think the deload week is mandatory after every 5/3/1 cycle. I was thinking of doing 2 full cycle before deloading…Any opinion??[/quote]
My opinion is I’m against it. It’s not mandatory in that the cops arent going to come and get you if you deload every 7th week instead of every 4th, but if you do that then you arent doing 531.
Just take a look at all the questions Jim is getting on Elite from people who try to “customize” the program. I’m just doing it as written and that’s what I’d advice
[quote]crankMAN wrote:
Do you guys think the deload week is mandatory after every 5/3/1 cycle. I was thinking of doing 2 full cycle before deloading…Any opinion??[/quote]
In the Elite FTS Q&A people have asked Jim the same question and he said you don’t have to deload. Since you cycle the intensity, you can get away without a deload. I am sure I could get by without a deload, but I think long term it will keep you from getting burned out or bored. I also think you will get more out of the program by being fully recovered.
[quote]T_Brun wrote:
Wendler might not of had great success in powerlifting as a lifter …[/quote]
Apparently a 1000lbs squat, a 675 bench press, 700lbs deadlift and a 2375 total in the 275lbs class is shitty.
[quote]Phillip Wylie wrote:
crankMAN wrote:
Do you guys think the deload week is mandatory after every 5/3/1 cycle. I was thinking of doing 2 full cycle before deloading…Any opinion??
In the Elite FTS Q&A people have asked Jim the same question and he said you don’t have to deload. Since you cycle the intensity, you can get away without a deload. I am sure I could get by without a deload, but I think long term it will keep you from getting burned out or bored. I also think you will get more out of the program by being fully recovered. [/quote]
I think the deload is more important the stronger you get. So for the average gym goer i doubt it’s too important. DeFranco picked it up and has his guys doin a 5rm then 3rm then 1 rm cycle without a deload. So younger or weaker guys dont necessarily have to deload.
[quote]Sagat wrote:
I’m doing this program too. It’s working great so far, i really plan to keep this for the core lifts for a while.
One question for you guys: how much weight you increase each 4 week wave(considering you keep the same exercise)?
I’m going to the easy week now and i’m not sure how much heavier i will go for the next wave…[/quote]
Jim has advised no more than 10# for lower body and 5# for upper body. When I started this program, I didn’t drop my maxes by 10%, I used weights close to my true max but less than it. I have started to stall in the MP in that I am struggling to hit 5 reps on the 5 rep week at the top set. I am gonna wait and see how the 3 rep and 1 rep week go. If they go badly, I’m going to have to reset my max for it. I have also been doing “boring but big”. Let me tell you about soreness after doing that many squats… I’m not noticing anything spectacular over the triumvirate and I am going back to that when I finish boring but big but as Jim is doing, I am switching the 5 rep week and the 3 rep week (making it 3/5/1).
[quote]blake b wrote:
Sagat wrote:
I’m doing this program too. It’s working great so far, i really plan to keep this for the core lifts for a while.
One question for you guys: how much weight you increase each 4 week wave(considering you keep the same exercise)?
I’m going to the easy week now and i’m not sure how much heavier i will go for the next wave…
Jim has advised no more than 10# for lower body and 5# for upper body.
[/quote]
I’ve seen this conflict tho, in some places he advices adding 10 lbs onto your projected max, which effectively adds 10 lbs to each of your working weights (since it woudl be too difficult to add 8.5 lbs, 9 and 9.5 lbs)
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
blake b wrote:
Sagat wrote:
I’m doing this program too. It’s working great so far, i really plan to keep this for the core lifts for a while.
One question for you guys: how much weight you increase each 4 week wave(considering you keep the same exercise)?
I’m going to the easy week now and i’m not sure how much heavier i will go for the next wave…
Jim has advised no more than 10# for lower body and 5# for upper body.
I’ve seen this conflict tho, in some places he advices adding 10 lbs onto your projected max, which effectively adds 10 lbs to each of your working weights (since it woudl be too difficult to add 8.5 lbs, 9 and 9.5 lbs)
[/quote]
Thanks KBCThird… that’s what I meant but wasn’t clear. Add the weight to your projected maxes. e.g. if you finished a cycle using 350 for whatever, do another cycle basing your lifts off of 360 (Sq and DL) or 355 (BP). If you are MPing 350, do whatever the hell you want because that’s strong!!
Just out of curiousity, what are everyone’s rep records on their 85% day, their 90% and 95%?
I’m doing the 531 for my bench. I benched 325 in an unsanctioned competition 8/16, missed 345 twice. Tried 335 in the gym on 9/16, no go.
So 325-10% = 292.5 Since I know gym doesnt like overthinking and exactness I went with 300 as my max, giving me top weights of 255, 270 and 285 on each respective day. I got 10 reps with 255, 8 with 270 and 7 with 285. I
guess next month I’ll try to meet or exceed those reps with 260, 275 and 290, although to be honest I’m sorely tempted to go to 265, 280 and 295. What are everyone else’s results?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
What are everyone else’s results?[/quote]
I’d have to go downstairs to get my log book to confirm this, and I’m far too lazy for that, so these will be from memory.
My first cycle, I didn’t even try to go for rep maxes. I’m not sure why. My second deadlift cycle, on the 3’s, I hit 475 for 7 – I think. It may have only been 6. I’ll check later. I also know that, whatever my single was for that cycle, I hit for a triple.
I wasn’t nearly as conservative with calculating my OH press max and it caught up to me. (Well, that and an aggravated shoulder from playing stupid flag football.) I also wasn’t as consistent with this lift.
My first cycle I did strict pressing. Second cycle I went to push press. Midway through the cycle I got a new log and used that for but didn’t change the weights I was supposed to make.
I really, really want to pull 600 by year’s end so I’m sticking with this for deadlifts. After the new year, I’m going to use a very conservative number for squats and give it a few cycles with that.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
What are everyone else’s results?[/quote]
This was my second wave, which I completed last week. I talked to Jim about the percentages to use. My weights were very conservative and after two waves on this program I saw how important it was to start with conservative maxes.
I have deadlifted 650 with only a belt several times in competition, but based my max on 560 the first wave and increased it 20lbs on the second wave. I squatted an easy 440 at USAPL Raw Nationals, but based my first wave on 425.
I benched 363 at USAPL Raw Nationals, but based my first wave on 315 and my second on 325. I wanted to make sure I could pause every rep. I get to see how well this program is working for me this Saturday and NASA Unequipped Nationals.
Squat (based on 440)
85% - 375x5
90% - 395x6
95% - 420x5
Bench (each rep paused/based on 325)
85% - 275x10
90% - 295x6
95% - 315x5 ← was supposed to be 310, but I went with 315
Deadlift (based on 580)
85% - 495x10
90% - 520x6
95% - 550x6
[quote]blake b wrote:
Sagat wrote:
I’m doing this program too. It’s working great so far, i really plan to keep this for the core lifts for a while.
One question for you guys: how much weight you increase each 4 week wave(considering you keep the same exercise)?
I’m going to the easy week now and i’m not sure how much heavier i will go for the next wave…
Jim has advised no more than 10# for lower body and 5# for upper body. When I started this program, I didn’t drop my maxes by 10%, I used weights close to my true max but less than it.
I have started to stall in the MP in that I am struggling to hit 5 reps on the 5 rep week at the top set. I am gonna wait and see how the 3 rep and 1 rep week go. If they go badly, I’m going to have to reset my max for it. I have also been doing “boring but big”.
Let me tell you about soreness after doing that many squats… I’m not noticing anything spectacular over the triumvirate and I am going back to that when I finish boring but big but as Jim is doing, I am switching the 5 rep week and the 3 rep week (making it 3/5/1).
[/quote]
Thanks for your answer. I’ll try 5lbs on upper body, but i think i’ll go for 15 or 20lbs more on squats since i did 5 reps with 95%.
Any particular reason for switching the order to 3/5/1?
[quote]Sagat wrote:
blake b wrote:
Sagat wrote:
I’m doing this program too. It’s working great so far, i really plan to keep this for the core lifts for a while.
One question for you guys: how much weight you increase each 4 week wave(considering you keep the same exercise)?
I’m going to the easy week now and i’m not sure how much heavier i will go for the next wave…
Jim has advised no more than 10# for lower body and 5# for upper body. When I started this program, I didn’t drop my maxes by 10%, I used weights close to my true max but less than it.
I have started to stall in the MP in that I am struggling to hit 5 reps on the 5 rep week at the top set. I am gonna wait and see how the 3 rep and 1 rep week go. If they go badly, I’m going to have to reset my max for it. I have also been doing “boring but big”.
Let me tell you about soreness after doing that many squats… I’m not noticing anything spectacular over the triumvirate and I am going back to that when I finish boring but big but as Jim is doing, I am switching the 5 rep week and the 3 rep week (making it 3/5/1).
Thanks for your answer. I’ll try 5lbs on upper body, but i think i’ll go for 15 or 20lbs more on squats since i did 5 reps with 95%.
Any particular reason for switching the order to 3/5/1?
[/quote]
I’d still stick with 10# max on SQ and DL, that way you make your gains keep coming longer. I just read on Elitefts that when you stall on this program, start all over by underestimating your maxes like when you started.
The reason for 3/5/1 is that myself and others (from reading posts) are finding the 5 rep week the most difficult. By switching the reps around, you have a heavy/light/heavy/light scheme. I’m hoping the 3 rep week will help prime me for the 5 rep week. Only time will tell. I
[quote]crankMAN wrote:
and this one from Matt Rhodes
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/getting_ready.htm
[/quote]
I also like this program, but was just wondering how is it suppose to be done.
ME bench, ME squat, + upper and lower body assistance days in one week?
that would be shitload of volume, a bit too much for me.
any suggestions?
Do a search on the q/a ,
many options but here a suggestion;
monday - max bench
tueday - max lower
thurday - assistance upper
saturday - assistance lower
The rest are days off or low intensity cardio.
If 5x10 is too much volume just cut to 3x10 or 4x10.
You can also superset the arms, and the chest-back exercices on assistance upper!!
[quote]blake b wrote:
I’d still stick with 10# max on SQ and DL, that way you make your gains keep coming longer. I just read on Elitefts that when you stall on this program, start all over by underestimating your maxes like when you started.
The reason for 3/5/1 is that myself and others (from reading posts) are finding the 5 rep week the most difficult. By switching the reps around, you have a heavy/light/heavy/light scheme. I’m hoping the 3 rep week will help prime me for the 5 rep week. Only time will tell. I
[/quote]
The reason i want to do a bigger increase only in the squat is that my knees are feeling better now. My previous “max” was actually too light, as my knee got better i found easier to do 5 reps at 95% than doing 3reps with 90% in the previous week. Sure i wont be able to increase that much every time.
This 3/5/1 idea seems interesting. Please keep us updated on how are you doing on 3/5/1.
Here is the results from my raw meet on 10/18/08. This is the results of a two waves on the 5/3/1 program. It’s working great for me and I will continue the program.
2008 NASA Unequipped Nationals
Bodyweight 243.8lbs
Squat
1st attempt - 451.9lbs
2nd attempt - 501.55lbs
3rd attempt - 551.15lbs ← 111lbs increase since my last raw meet at the end of July
Bench Press
1st attempt - 330.7lbs
2nd attempt - 363.8lbs
3rd attempt - 385.8lbs ← 22lbs increase from my last raw meet at the end of July
Deadlift
1st attempt - 584.99lbs
2nd attempt - 633.82lbs ← Open & Master 1 American Record
3rd attempt - 666.89lbs
4th attempt - 677.91lbs <–27.9lbs PR
Total
1603.84lbs
1614.86lbs total with 4th attempt deadlift ← Master 1 American Record
2nd Place Open 275lbs
1st Place Master 1 275lbs
Best Lifter
I forgot to mention that I was able to get past my sticking point on my 4th attempt deadlift. My prior two meets I missed 661lbs just past my knees.
Great job man! Some impressive numbers.
Excellent numbers, Phil!!! Taking a break from equipped lifting until the spring and giving 5/3/1 a go myself. Hopefully I’ll have as good a run with it as you did.