Wendler 5/3/1 Program - pt 2.

Training Powerlifting
941

[quote]irishlifting wrote:
Not too move away from OHP, but I had another really shit session on the squat today, last week I didnt even hit my 3 reps so I’m going to have to reset my maxes. In this one cycle alone I’ve really gone backwards which is total BS since I’ve made massive gains in the other 3 movements, my DL alone is up to almost 3x body weight with chalk and pantera for company only, however the squat is pathetically weak so other than lowering my maxes and start over what else can I do assistance wise to bring it up.

I guess this question is pretty much aimed at Jim although any input from you 5/3/1r’s is always appreciated. I train heavy abs twice a week with the lower body movements and dont think this is my problem I seem to be doing the classic good morning squat as soon as any weight is on the bar. All suggestions will be taken seriously cos this has really fucked me off tonight![/quote]

Judging by your deadlift, it sounds like your body is built to pull (which usually means your body sucks at squatting). Having said that a video would be of some help at least for the stance and where the bar sits, etc.

If you can’t do that - gain weight. Seriously this would do wonders to help your leverages in the squat. You may not want to do this but this is your “tax” to get a higher squat.

942

I’m on my 4th cycle of 5/3/1 and loving it. I recently read on Mike Robertson’s site that he is doing 5/3/1 also. He stated he is doing chest supported rows before his 5/3/1 bench program and is experiencing more stability and strength with these assistence excersises. As anyone familiar with this? If so, is the assistence like Wendler prescribes, 5x10, or is it less volume, or what?

943

[quote]sealgairefir wrote:
I’m on my 4th cycle of 5/3/1 and loving it. I recently read on Mike Robertson’s site that he is doing 5/3/1 also. He stated he is doing chest supported rows before his 5/3/1 bench program and is experiencing more stability and strength with these assistence excersises. As anyone familiar with this? If so, is the assistence like Wendler prescribes, 5x10, or is it less volume, or what? [/quote]

I just asked him about the set/rep scheme of this on his blog. Hopefully he will see it. I’m definitely going to give pulling before pressing a try and just switch the order. I’m going to keep the 3-5 sets of 10 on CSR’s (bench day) and multiple sets of pull ups (mil press day) the same, just do them before benching or pressing.

944

Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?

945

[quote]formfunction wrote:
Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Double-under???

I hope you mean double-over. Anyway, I’m only a 3rd cycle veteran but I think you should drop the weight and do 5x10. There is a purpose for that and you can drop to 30% if need be and work your way up.

946

[quote]formfunction wrote:
Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Double-under???

I hope you mean double-over. Anyway, I’m only a 3rd cycle veteran but I think you should drop the weight and do 5x10. There is a purpose for that and you can drop to 30% if need be and work your way up.

947

[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
irishlifting wrote:
Not too move away from OHP, but I had another really shit session on the squat today, last week I didnt even hit my 3 reps so I’m going to have to reset my maxes. In this one cycle alone I’ve really gone backwards which is total BS since I’ve made massive gains in the other 3 movements, my DL alone is up to almost 3x body weight with chalk and pantera for company only, however the squat is pathetically weak so other than lowering my maxes and start over what else can I do assistance wise to bring it up.

I guess this question is pretty much aimed at Jim although any input from you 5/3/1r’s is always appreciated. I train heavy abs twice a week with the lower body movements and dont think this is my problem I seem to be doing the classic good morning squat as soon as any weight is on the bar. All suggestions will be taken seriously cos this has really fucked me off tonight!

Judging by your deadlift, it sounds like your body is built to pull (which usually means your body sucks at squatting). Having said that a video would be of some help at least for the stance and where the bar sits, etc.

If you can’t do that - gain weight. Seriously this would do wonders to help your leverages in the squat. You may not want to do this but this is your “tax” to get a higher squat.
[/quote]

Thanks for all the replies I’ve taken it all on board. Unfortunately I didnt get a video but a description might help a diagnosis. I take a shoulder width stance with toes sligthly at an angle. the bar sits relatively low (below traps) as my high bar squatting is even worse. I think my problem is losing tightness and my back. I seem to blast the first couple of inches ( meaning my leg strength is there) up no problem then all of a sudden lose it and have to drop the bar.

This has disappointed me as I’ve said in my earlier post 5/3/1 is easily the best training I’ve done and can honestly say I cant see myself training any other way but the squat has to improve!

948

[quote]randomhero97 wrote:
formfunction wrote:
Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?

Double-under???

I hope you mean double-over. Anyway, I’m only a 3rd cycle veteran but I think you should drop the weight and do 5x10. There is a purpose for that and you can drop to 30% if need be and work your way up.

[/quote]

Definitely meant double-over. Must have gotten up too early this morning.

Thanks for responding

949

[quote]formfunction wrote:
Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?[/quote]

Either I’m reading this wrong, or you’re misunderstanding the BBB plan. In BBB, the accessory work IS 5 sets of 10 reps, NOT 10 sets of 5 reps.

950

My gym has a safety squat bar and I’d like to incorporate it into my 5/3/1 training. I’m adding powercleans w/ the 5/3/1 rep scheme as well. I’d like to do SSB Squats and SSB (seated?)GMs as accessory lifts to strengthen my abs and lower back. Any suggestions on wear to put these? With squats or deadlifts? I’ll be working out 4 days a week, 2on-1off-2on-2off. Other suggestions are welcome. I also have access to a reverse hyper.

951

[quote]malonetd wrote:
formfunction wrote:
Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?

Either I’m reading this wrong, or you’re misunderstanding the BBB plan. In BBB, the accessory work IS 5 sets of 10 reps, NOT 10 sets of 5 reps.
[/quote]

I understand BBB calls for 5 sets X 10 reps, which I mentioned I did last week.

Jim W had mentioned previously to someone to do 10 sets of 5 reps on the pull-up, I believe, if he/she couldn’t do 5 sets of 10 reps.

Hence the reason for asking if I could do this for deads.

952

[quote]formfunction wrote:
malonetd wrote:
formfunction wrote:
Question for JW or any 5/3/1 veteran…

I use the BBB for assistance work on the deadlift. Can I do 10 X 5 in place of 5 X 10?

My grips give out on the deadlift a lot and part of the reason I went with BBB is to improve this. Last week I had to switch midset(on all sets) from double-underhand to one-under-one-over to be able to complete all 5 X 10 X 235.

Today I went with 10 X 5 X 245 and I managed to complete all 50 reps with double-under, and in less time. I think my grips will benefit better with all reps done double-under.

There is however some other advantages to 5 X 10. I am not used to reps over 5, so doing something outside my comfort zone should be good for me.

I am also not averse to going as low 185 pounds (about 40% of my true 1RM) and build up from there if need be. Just not too sure if that poundage would do much for me.

What do you guys think?

Either I’m reading this wrong, or you’re misunderstanding the BBB plan. In BBB, the accessory work IS 5 sets of 10 reps, NOT 10 sets of 5 reps.

I understand BBB calls for 5 sets X 10 reps, which I mentioned I did last week.

Jim W had mentioned previously to someone to do 10 sets of 5 reps on the pull-up, I believe, if he/she couldn’t do 5 sets of 10 reps.

Hence the reason for asking if I could do this for deads.
[/quote]

OK, I guess I was just confused reading your post.

If doing 10x5 vs 5x10 is just a matter of grip, then I think it’s a minor issue. Just get the total reps in either way. If you think your grip really needs it, you might even want to add some simple grip work on a second day.

953

It can be hard for a lot of people to do multiple chin-ups. I have read some programs that specify the total number of reps for chin-ups/pull-ups and you do them in as many sets needed to hit the total. I suppose JW suggested 10x5 instead of 5x10 for similar reasons.

Deadlifts can be quite taxing on the system. Doing 10x5 after your 3x5/3x3/5-3-1 sets seems a bit much. Why not do Kroc rows to improve grip as JW mentions in the eBook?

BTW, what’s wrong with a mixed grip? I use it for my heaviest sets although I wouldn’t need it for 5x10 if I used <60% 1RM?

954

Agree with jsdool; Kroc Rows for grip.

Before I found 5/3/1 I was using straps to pull 405x1 on dead lifts and I thought I was pretty strong. When I got the book and JW mentions ditching the straps I was devastated (b/c deep down I knew my grip was real weak).
I retested my 1RM that first week and 360 was all I could muster before my grip gave out and I dumped the bar.
Deeply disappointed, but ready to solve the problem, I followed Jim’s advice in the book and hit up the Kroc Rows.
A few waves later I was feeling strong on a DL day and opted to retest my 1RM and I got 405 no problem. I wanted to make sure it wasn’t a fluke so I did 2 more singles just to make sure, lol, and was shocked to say the least. Mixed grip.

955

[quote]PhxRph wrote:
My gym has a safety squat bar and I’d like to incorporate it into my 5/3/1 training. I’m adding powercleans w/ the 5/3/1 rep scheme as well. I’d like to do SSB Squats and SSB (seated?)GMs as accessory lifts to strengthen my abs and lower back. Any suggestions on wear to put these? With squats or deadlifts? I’ll be working out 4 days a week, 2on-1off-2on-2off. Other suggestions are welcome. I also have access to a reverse hyper.[/quote]

SSB GMs = deadlift day
SSB Squat = squat day

Only keep at this if your main lifts make good progress. I know doing that much SSB work a week, plus deadlifting, rowing, and chinning, would completely destroy my back.

956

That’s what I was leaning towards. thanks.

957

Just did a set of Kroc rows using a fat bar. Well, not a real fat bar. I put pipe insulation (2-1/4" OD) around the 1" dumbbell handle. It was a little “squishy” but seemed to require some more effort to balance the weight. I was only able to do 15x60lb whereas last week I did 25x60lb with the 1" handle. I feel the difference already.

958

[quote]jsdool wrote:
Just did a set of Kroc rows using a fat bar. Well, not a real fat bar. I put pipe insulation (2-1/4" OD) around the 1" dumbbell handle. It was a little “squishy” but seemed to require some more effort to balance the weight. I was only able to do 15x60lb whereas last week I did 25x60lb with the 1" handle. I feel the difference already.[/quote]

from your profile stats i am assuming you are a male. im not trying to be offensive, but i think at this point you should put your focus towards rowing heavier bells, rather than worrying about trying to make a fat bar dumbbell- for im assuming grip work. if you start rowing 100’s++ for reps, that is going to improve your strength in many areas much more than rowing those 60’s. Strength IS relative, but the key to making a 60lb harder is to move to 65, 70, 75, etc. You could prob leave that fat bar stuff alone til you max out on your gym’s bells and hit 20+ reps with them. if 60’s happen to be the heaviest your gym has, do your fat grips on some pullups and work on repping out with them, youll make better progress.

959

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
jsdool wrote:
Just did a set of Kroc rows using a fat bar. Well, not a real fat bar. I put pipe insulation (2-1/4" OD) around the 1" dumbbell handle. It was a little “squishy” but seemed to require some more effort to balance the weight. I was only able to do 15x60lb whereas last week I did 25x60lb with the 1" handle. I feel the difference already.

from your profile stats i am assuming you are a male. im not trying to be offensive, but i think at this point you should put your focus towards rowing heavier bells, rather than worrying about trying to make a fat bar dumbbell- for im assuming grip work. if you start rowing 100’s++ for reps, that is going to improve your strength in many areas much more than rowing those 60’s. Strength IS relative, but the key to making a 60lb harder is to move to 65, 70, 75, etc. You could prob leave that fat bar stuff alone til you max out on your gym’s bells and hit 20+ reps with them. if 60’s happen to be the heaviest your gym has, do your fat grips on some pullups and work on repping out with them, youll make better progress. [/quote]

Thanks for the suggestions. Did heavy 5x10 barbell rows in my first cycle. Changed to 5x10 db rows in second cycle and did increase weight 2lb per week (I have fractional plates). In my current third cycle, I tried the Kroc rows. I work out in my home gym and bought oly db handles. They’re a bit bulky but I can go up to 90lb with them using 8-10lb plates. I don’t like using 25lb plates with them though.

I haven’t done them since starting 5/3/1, but I used to do rope pull-ups with a 2" rope.

Thanks again.

960

the following will not advance anyones training: ahhh fractional plates. i actually saw some “plate mates” at my gym’s second location the other day. ive trained there twice now and im fucking torn. their dumbbells go to 150lbs, whereas the normal location goes to 115lbs. second location however DOES NOT have the regular 45lb olympic bars! they have these bastard versions that are a little thicker and weight like 55lbs. and the normal location has a slightly better rack, although neither hold a candle to EFS racks. i think what i have figured out is that i will mostly go to the second location, but go to the normal location for deadlift days, mostly because i think i would go crazy deadlifting with those thicker bars.

oh, and second location does not have regular metal plates. theyre metal with a thin rubber coating- not bumper plates though. i fucking hate them. normal location has both and for all free weight moves, if i can help it i use the metal ones. i know it makes no difference as long as the weights are true, but it fucks with my head. and the plates have to match, of course.