[quote]G87 wrote:
Just wanted to give some feedback on the program. I did my first 2 cycles, no deconditioning, since I’m usually a workhorse. In retrospect, I probably should’ve deconditioned some after week 3. For assistance work, I did mechanical drop sets in weeks 4, 5 and 6, and - until I started getting burned out in week 5 - ran sprints 2-3x a week. So, overall the program was very taxing and I might go with more basic assistance work for the upcoming cycle.
As of Cycle 2 I beat my rep PRs on bench, front squat and deadlift, while maintaining on military. I got absolutely beastly gains on my deadlift. I estimate that in 6 weeks my 1RM jumped up by 10-15kg, or 22-33 lbs. Gains in bench and military came hardest of all, but those are my weakest natural lifts to begin with, so even the ~10 lbs I got on each are awesome.[/quote]
I think we all have done the same in which we feel good and we want to keep going hard… until we start burning out, now I really see the de-load week as just as an important component of this program, you don’t have to back off completely, in my case, I’m using it as a week for improving my technique with low weights/high reps, injury-prevention exercises, more metabolic workouts (complexes), or nothing at ALL! I think this is key to ensure we can keep with it for the long run.
One of the beauties of the program is that you can manipulate your assistance work in many ways. I’m shooting for size AND strength as well, so my first two exercises after the main ones, are heavy compound ones (push/pull or quad/posterior chain), then I do a couple of more movements with higher reps and more geared towards hypertrophy. I think you can get enough volume that way, the coolest thing also is that since you’re getting stronger, you can definitely handle more weight on the high rep assistance work.
I do 5/3/1 weighted pull ups right after Push Presses.
G87, I’ve had REALLY good success with the following… (think struggling to do 2x5 pull ups to a set of 14 with one or two in the bag in two cycles)
Every training day, warm up with 2 comfortable sets of pull ups. I started with 2x5 and then added a rep every 2 or 3 sessions. Moving on to doing 2x10 now at the start of my 3rd wave. On MP day I’m doing weighted pull ups, 3-6 sets of 5 or 6 rep with an appropriate weight, trying to go up when I can. On bench day I’m doing weighted chins with roughly the same weight, but with more reps in my sets.
Pull up strength is something I’ve never been good on, but I’ve hit 14 full over the bar pull ups at 233lb and am hoping to get past the 20 mark in another wave or two.
With regards to the conditioning/energy systems work, has anyone used barbell complexes with this? I just got the manual, and was wondering what anyone thought of doing the 4 day routine, with a 15 minute complex consisting of dead lift/Romanian dead lift/row/high pull/power clean/front squat/push press/ back squat following the main lifts and supplemental lifts along with some 100 meter track sprints.
And if so, should I break the lifts up with the conditioning (like 2 a days) or do it in one session.
About pullups and chinups …are you also doing some type of rowing(bb or db rows)on the same day??
Just curious!thanks![/quote]
I’m not actually. I THINK my bench may be suffering as a result too. My upper back strength isn’t as good as it has been, when it’s up high I feel spring loaded off my chest but recently that hasn’t been the case. I’m adding in face pulls this cycle to see if that helps, and if it doesn’t I’ll probably go back to Pendlay Rows* (by far the most effective row I’ve tried).
*technically they’re not “true” Pendlay Rows, more a barbell row w/ each rep starting on the floor.
weighted chins are in my program so far for july as a 531 lift.
-chris
Thanks, Chris. Are they in as a replacement or an extra?[/quote]
As they are scheged in now they are a 531 lift on a snatch day:
Sn: 85%
W+Chins: 531d
Density pairing: pushPr + plyoBSpSq
I have 4 training days/week during my prep phase. For the first month the days go classic lift, 531 basic lift [the 4 are Front Squat, SnPull/DL, Split jerk and chins(not in that order)] and then a density pairing which is similar to EDT pairings. It is far from traditional OL style program but It accounts for all my greatest needs, being OL reps, maintenance/progress of strength lifts and volume on structural lifts to rehab/prevent current/future injuries.
So the short answer is… Both? I have 4 531 lifts/week [OG programming is 3, AFAIK] and it does replace what im sure is supposed to be a big 3 lift such as bench/DL/Sq.
My bad if this is incomprehensible and stole more than 1 minute of your life.
About pullups and chinups …are you also doing some type of rowing(bb or db rows)on the same day??
Just curious!thanks!
I’m not actually. I THINK my bench may be suffering as a result too. My upper back strength isn’t as good as it has been, when it’s up high I feel spring loaded off my chest but recently that hasn’t been the case. I’m adding in face pulls this cycle to see if that helps, and if it doesn’t I’ll probably go back to Pendlay Rows* (by far the most effective row I’ve tried).
*technically they’re not “true” Pendlay Rows, more a barbell row w/ each rep starting on the floor.[/quote]
Wat’s you chin up grip type? I find that if you can get a hold of shoulder width neutral or “natural” grip bar you get much more upper back tension going on. If you can lever a bit and get your nipples close to the bar you really get that barbell rowing effect on your upper back. The only reason i ended up noticing this is because I swapped my BB row for neutral grip chins for a while. then when i went back to my regular BB rows both them and my floor press [I dont bench per se] were stronger abnormally.
I should be starting 5/3/1 next week. Ill be doing mostly BW exercises for assistance to start off, and gradually add in some dif. lifts. Just a few questions though.
Whenever my shoulders are feeling a little beat up, can I switch to DB military instead of BB?
If I wanted to use Knee wraps for squat, would I have to run the entire cycle using them, or could I just use them on week 3?
Can I use The crazy plate press as an assistance exercise?
The manual pretty much says “no” to number 1 with a “if you have to ask this you probably shouldn’t be doing this program” or something along those lines.
[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
I should be starting 5/3/1 next week. Ill be doing mostly BW exercises for assistance to start off, and gradually add in some dif. lifts. Just a few questions though.
Whenever my shoulders are feeling a little beat up, can I switch to DB military instead of BB?
If I wanted to use Knee wraps for squat, would I have to run the entire cycle using them, or could I just use them on week 3?
Can I use The crazy plate press as an assistance exercise?[/quote]
Why would you do any of that stuff? Seriously… like how badly are your shoulders fucked if you can’t do a military press? Why would you do bodyweight and crazy plate press assistance? Why not just hit the basics and get stronger??
[quote]Hanley wrote:
BlackLabel wrote:
I should be starting 5/3/1 next week. Ill be doing mostly BW exercises for assistance to start off, and gradually add in some dif. lifts. Just a few questions though.
Whenever my shoulders are feeling a little beat up, can I switch to DB military instead of BB?
If I wanted to use Knee wraps for squat, would I have to run the entire cycle using them, or could I just use them on week 3?
Can I use The crazy plate press as an assistance exercise?
Why would you do any of that stuff? Seriously… like how badly are your shoulders fucked if you can’t do a military press? Why would you do bodyweight and crazy plate press assistance? Why not just hit the basics and get stronger??
[/quote]
“Assistance Work #5 â?? Bodyweight When I want to focus on feeling athletic and healthy while still maintaining muscle mass, I do this. Itâ??s probably my favorite template to do these days other than Jack Shit. This involves doing all your assistance work with bodyweight exercises. Itâ??ll put a lot less stress on you, especially with your lower body.” -taken right from the 5/3/1 manual
Never said I couldnt do a military press. It’s just when I do BB military week after week my shoulders start to hurt. The knee wraps were just an idea, I couldn’t remember if Jim talked about using them or not.
if barbell military presses hurt your shoulders and dumbbell overhead presses dont, youre probably doing something wrong. im thinking grip is too wide.
[quote]dez6485 wrote:
if barbell military presses hurt your shoulders and dumbbell overhead presses dont, youre probably doing something wrong. im thinking grip is too wide. [/quote]
Ive been doing it with a thumb grip away from the smooth.
You could just run and do sprints and stuff on flat ground. I haven’t seen Jim say that these things aren’t good. Also, if you have a car, go find a parking not and put the thing in N, now you have a sled!