Was the Cop Right?

Off Topic
61

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Dude had a knife. Dont police have some hand to hand combat skills? Fuck
[/quote]

If the dude has a knife, it’s not hand to hand is it?[/quote]

Of course it is. If your skills are up to par (which as a cop i hope they are) they disarming a person with a knife shouldnt be hard at all.

Front stomp kick from a distance then a crashing technique…move to elbow or hroat strike…rear throw…armbreaker series.

Anything. Its a knife. You should know how to handle someone with a knife .

He couldve pepper spray the guy even without needing any h2h at all.
[/quote]

Every department in the U.S. (including mine) has some sort of use of force policy. The officer is ALWAYS allowed to be a level above the subject in order to maintain or effect control. A knife is a deadly weapon and is thus met with deadly force unless it is dropped. Nice list of DOA moves though.

62

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Dude had a knife. Dont police have some hand to hand combat skills? Fuck
[/quote]

If the dude has a knife, it’s not hand to hand is it?[/quote]

Of course it is. If your skills are up to par (which as a cop i hope they are) they disarming a person with a knife shouldnt be hard at all.

Front stomp kick from a distance then a crashing technique…move to elbow or hroat strike…rear throw…armbreaker series.

Anything. Its a knife. You should know how to handle someone with a knife .

He couldve pepper spray the guy even without needing any h2h at all.
[/quote]

If either person is using a weapon it is, by definition, no longer hand to hand.

If you look into the subject a little from a real world perspective you will find that it is far from “not hard at all” to disarm a person with a knife.

The gentleman in the photo is a police officer and, I believe, a well trained use of force instructor who went hands on with a guy with a knife while wearing body armour. Inside it’s effective range, a knife is up to 3x as lethal and much more effective than a handgun.

If you ever need to “disarm” somebody with a knife who intends to do you harm, I highly recommend that you shoot them first, if at all possible.

I have no opinion regarding the specific incident in the video. I lack the necessary information to form one.

Edit: I see the photo was removed. In retrospect it was pretty graphic.[/quote]

Important to note that Kevlar vests are not stab-resistant.

63

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

Living in Philly as an art student back in the 80s, a dude pulled a knife on me once. I was on a skateboard and he was pissing against a building and I yelled at him. He turned around and came at me with a knife. I jumped off the board, picked it up like a weapon, and yelled, “Come on, motherfucker!” He backed down.

Later that year, 5 young dudes threatened me with sharpened screwdrivers, in broad daylight. Once again, my skateboard came up as a weapon and all the fuckers backed down.

So it was either the board that they perceived as a viable weapon, or they weren’t sure what to make of an angry, raging, bonkers dwarf.

lol
[/quote]

Do you think he would have backed down if you had to arrest him?

You both knew neither of you had an obligation to be in the situation you were in, so really it wasn’t worth it for you or the other guy. You both could have ran away.

If you were a cop and you found the guy pissing on the building and he pulled a knife on you, you have no choice but to arrest the person. I’m sure there would be a lot less police shootings if police just left when shit hit the fan. [/quote]

Logic tells in such situations without the court final decision you have to take someones life out only when he actually attacks you with a lethal weapon, not when it just looks like he could have, or he might have had a knife and so on… Otherwise anyone and I could easily get shot walking at night with a gym bag from 24hours fitness - cop stops me because I look suspicious (shaved head, black color bag), then I just want to show him my passport that I am from Soviet Union and he obviously decides that I am taking out my gun and at the same time he shouts “hands up!” also starts shooting in my chest…
[/quote]

My comments were not about the video. I haven’t seen it yet (can’t watch video at work). It was about the comment about using OC spray on a guy with a knife.

64

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I agree with you completely, a knife isn’t a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

BUT, these guys aren’t trained in close quarters combat; they’re trained to operate radar equipment, shoot a gun, memorize city code, and generally act intimidating. Now, if it were SWAT vs a guy with a knife… actually, no, they’d still shoot him too. Maybe not to kill though.[/quote]

I get it. What i dont get is the"why" for not having hand to hand skills apart of training. It doesnt make any sense to me.

It seems like fighting should be a required course.[/quote]

Self defense is required, but police work, like any other profession has individuals who run the length and breadth of the spectrum of preparation and competency. How long did it take you to become both a kung-fu master and an expert marksman?

65

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Dude had a knife. Dont police have some hand to hand combat skills? Fuck
[/quote]

If the dude has a knife, it’s not hand to hand is it?[/quote]

Of course it is. If your skills are up to par (which as a cop i hope they are) they disarming a person with a knife shouldnt be hard at all.

Front stomp kick from a distance then a crashing technique…move to elbow or hroat strike…rear throw…armbreaker series.

Anything. Its a knife. You should know how to handle someone with a knife .

He couldve pepper spray the guy even without needing any h2h at all.
[/quote]

This is incredibly stupid.
[/quote]

Indeed.

You are still quite capable of stabbing someone if you’ve been sprayed. Hell, it doesn’t even work on some people.

A lot of idiots who have no idea what they are talking about come out of the woodwork with these threads. [/quote]

Club security

Many fights…

Lols[/quote]

Yep. You think pepper spray would stop someone from stabbing you, yet I’m fully capable handcuffing someone 3 minutes after being sprayed.

Lols
[/quote]

Why does it take you 3 minutes if it doesnt work at all? I never intended to make spray an end all. It may work well or it may get someone. To only blink for a few seconds. A few seconds is an opening for a takedown or putdown strike…right?

I can spray you eyes with water and your first reaction is wiping your eyes…

But yea dude keep acting like i said “pepper spray will KO a dude on PCP”

[/quote]

3 minutes was mentioned because it was a training exercise. At the 3 minute mark you arrest a knife wielding subject. It was difficult to do, especially double locking the cuffs, but not impossible by any means. Everyone that was sprayed was able to do it. This is with a full 2 second stream into open eyes.

Yea, go in for a double leg on a guy holding a knife. It’s not like he can stick it into your ribcage when he hits the ground. Holy shit.

Well dude, OC spray blows but it doesn’t completely incapacitate you. A knife is an ideal weapon if you’ve been sprayed and want to attack someone.

You don’t have to be high on PCP to not feel the effects of OC. It just doesn’t work on some people.

66

[quote]SRT08 wrote:
How long did it take you to become both a kung-fu master and an expert marksman?[/quote]

The amount of time it took his computer to log onto the internet.

67

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Dude had a knife. Dont police have some hand to hand combat skills? Fuck
[/quote]

If the dude has a knife, it’s not hand to hand is it?[/quote]

Of course it is. If your skills are up to par (which as a cop i hope they are) they disarming a person with a knife shouldnt be hard at all.

Front stomp kick from a distance then a crashing technique…move to elbow or hroat strike…rear throw…armbreaker series.

Anything. Its a knife. You should know how to handle someone with a knife .

He couldve pepper spray the guy even without needing any h2h at all.
[/quote]

This is incredibly stupid.
[/quote]

Indeed.

You are still quite capable of stabbing someone if you’ve been sprayed. Hell, it doesn’t even work on some people.

A lot of idiots who have no idea what they are talking about come out of the woodwork with these threads. [/quote]

Club security

Many fights…

Lols[/quote]

Yep. You think pepper spray would stop someone from stabbing you, yet I’m fully capable handcuffing someone 3 minutes after being sprayed.

Lols
[/quote]

Why does it take you 3 minutes if it doesnt work at all? I never intended to make spray an end all. It may work well or it may get someone. To only blink for a few seconds. A few seconds is an opening for a takedown or putdown strike…right?

I can spray you eyes with water and your first reaction is wiping your eyes…

But yea dude keep acting like i said “pepper spray will KO a dude on PCP”

[/quote]

3 minutes was mentioned because it was a training exercise. At the 3 minute mark you arrest a knife wielding subject. It was difficult to do, especially double locking the cuffs, but not impossible by any means. Everyone that was sprayed was able to do it. This is with a full 2 second stream into open eyes.

Yea, go in for a double leg on a guy holding a knife. It’s not like he can stick it into your ribcage when he hits the ground. Holy shit.

Well dude, OC spray blows but it doesn’t completely incapacitate you. A knife is an ideal weapon if you’ve been sprayed and want to attack someone.

You don’t have to be high on PCP to not feel the effects of OC. It just doesn’t work on some people. [/quote]

You guys are either missing the point, or just can’t fathom out of the box thinking. Although he got caught up specifying pepper spray, what he really intended to say is there has to be better ways of handling situations like this. Okay the boston crab and electronic goggles might not work, but i’m sure there are other things that do. A better example may be in any knife situation remain a set distance and don’t fire as many shots. When a perp has a gun I can see a need to shoot to kill but if he doesn’t and your 10 feet away with 3 other cops you can protect yourself without immediately taking away some kids father for getting out his car.

68

I think most people’s opinions on this aren’t worth a damn until you’ve been in this exact situation

I am not sticking up for the cop but if you’re pointing a gun at someone you know to be dangerous and for even a split second think your own life is in danger then there is no telling how you might react

I’m sure if he sat down and discussed the possible courses of action for that exact situation in a forum somewhere he may come to another conclusion but unfortunately he didn’t have that privilege and had to make a snap decision in the moment

I feel sorry for everyone involved but the guy knew what to do… Put his hands up!

69

Trigger happy motherfucking pigs.

Fuck the police!

70

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
During Soviet times in 1980 in Soviet Union cops very often didn’t have pistols when patrolling the city, and instead of a gun they would keep there a sandwich [/quote]

In Soviet Russia, all the cops need is a sandwich to apprehend criminals

71

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
Dude had a knife. Dont police have some hand to hand combat skills? Fuck
[/quote]

If the dude has a knife, it’s not hand to hand is it?[/quote]

Of course it is. If your skills are up to par (which as a cop i hope they are) they disarming a person with a knife shouldnt be hard at all.

Front stomp kick from a distance then a crashing technique…move to elbow or hroat strike…rear throw…armbreaker series.

Anything. Its a knife. You should know how to handle someone with a knife .

He couldve pepper spray the guy even without needing any h2h at all.
[/quote]

This is incredibly stupid.
[/quote]

Indeed.

You are still quite capable of stabbing someone if you’ve been sprayed. Hell, it doesn’t even work on some people.

A lot of idiots who have no idea what they are talking about come out of the woodwork with these threads. [/quote]

Club security

Many fights…

Lols[/quote]

Yep. You think pepper spray would stop someone from stabbing you, yet I’m fully capable handcuffing someone 3 minutes after being sprayed.

Lols
[/quote]

Why does it take you 3 minutes if it doesnt work at all? I never intended to make spray an end all. It may work well or it may get someone. To only blink for a few seconds. A few seconds is an opening for a takedown or putdown strike…right?

I can spray you eyes with water and your first reaction is wiping your eyes…

But yea dude keep acting like i said “pepper spray will KO a dude on PCP”

[/quote]

3 minutes was mentioned because it was a training exercise. At the 3 minute mark you arrest a knife wielding subject. It was difficult to do, especially double locking the cuffs, but not impossible by any means. Everyone that was sprayed was able to do it. This is with a full 2 second stream into open eyes.

Yea, go in for a double leg on a guy holding a knife. It’s not like he can stick it into your ribcage when he hits the ground. Holy shit.

Well dude, OC spray blows but it doesn’t completely incapacitate you. A knife is an ideal weapon if you’ve been sprayed and want to attack someone.

You don’t have to be high on PCP to not feel the effects of OC. It just doesn’t work on some people. [/quote]

You guys are either missing the point, or just can’t fathom out of the box thinking. Although he got caught up specifying pepper spray, what he really intended to say is there has to be better ways of handling situations like this. Okay the boston crab and electronic goggles might not work, but i’m sure there are other things that do. A better example may be in any knife situation remain a set distance and don’t fire as many shots. When a perp has a gun I can see a need to shoot to kill but if he doesn’t and your 10 feet away with 3 other cops you can protect yourself without immediately taking away some kids father for getting out his car.[/quote]

As stated in a previous post, I am not commenting on what transpired in the video as I am unable to view it. I am strictly addressing the issue of starting at the bottom of the force continuum when the subject has already elevated the situation to death or grievous bodily harm. Responding with a lower level of force than what is presented to you will get you and possibly others killed.

There are situations where shooting someone with a knife is not immediately necessary. Having said that, if someone has the means, ability, and intent to kill me with a knife, he has satisfied the criteria for his own undoing.

That is all.

72

I think after the 3rd shot as he cradled to the ground in agonizing pain the officer could have realized that he was no longer a threat. I would imagine that the clip at most held 13 bullets. He almost used the entire clip on a single human.

73

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
I think after the 3rd shot as he cradled to the ground in agonizing pain the officer could have realized that he was no longer a threat. I would imagine that the clip at most held 13 bullets. He almost used the entire clip on a single human.[/quote]

Apparently 50 Cent took 9 shots and lived. 6/7 victims of handgun shootings live through the encounter if they can make it to the OR on time.

*Didn’t see the video, just sayin’.

74

wow that was fucking incredible. There were about 6 shots that did not need to be fired, unfuckingbelievable.

75

[quote]lemony2j wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
During Soviet times in 1980 in Soviet Union cops very often didn’t have pistols when patrolling the city, and instead of a gun they would keep there a sandwich [/quote]

In Soviet Russia, all the cops need is a sandwich to apprehend criminals[/quote]

Yes, you guys always had more cheeseburgers and donuts…:slight_smile: but my generation only now realizes and appreciates what a good environment we grew up in - peace, love and equality… and there were just enough sandwiches:)))… real dangerous criminals were extremely rare, and the cops quite often would carry a sandwich instead of a gun… I am talking about the period from 1960 to 1985…

76

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

Oh, well then THAT makes it all right.

[/quote]

Why do you think they’re trained to do that? Do you think there’s a good reason for it or are they just trained to be malicious?

[quote]

Pigs.[/quote]

We’re talking about cops not your mother and sister.

77

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I don’t usually post in Get a Life, but for this post…I had to.

This is some of the dumbest, biggest load of bullshit I have read.
Do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.

78

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I don’t usually post in Get a Life, but for this post…I had to.

This is some of the dumbest, biggest load of bullshit I have read.
Do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.[/quote]

x2

79

No one said bostin crab or double leg shot

I cant post from my phone

Look up these vids on google

“Combat jui jitsu throat strike”
“Crashing technique to rear thro2”
“H2h crashing technique”
“Front stomp kick”
“Cresent kick”
)ow kick"

I really want you to look at them and tell me they wouldnt be effective against a knife.

80

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I don’t usually post in Get a Life, but for this post…I had to.

This is some of the dumbest, biggest load of bullshit I have read.
Do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.[/quote]

Why?

Because i would rather see less people shot?

Lol ok im done. I will just keep training for the day i need to fight and rely on my hands instead of a gun.

Pussy.