Was the Cop Right?

Off Topic
81

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I don’t usually post in Get a Life, but for this post…I had to.

This is some of the dumbest, biggest load of bullshit I have read.
Do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.[/quote]

Why?

Because i would rather see less people shot?

Lol ok im done. I will just keep training for the day i need to fight and rely on my hands instead of a gun.

Pussy.[/quote]

You’ve seen too many movies.

If you’re training at a half decent place, your instructor will tell you to run away and if you can’t, expect to get slashed up if you get through it.

82

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I don’t usually post in Get a Life, but for this post…I had to.

This is some of the dumbest, biggest load of bullshit I have read.
Do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.[/quote]

Why?

Because i would rather see less people shot?

Lol ok im done. I will just keep training for the day i need to fight and rely on my hands instead of a gun.

Pussy.[/quote]

You’ve seen too many movies.

If you’re training at a half decent place, your instructor will tell you to run away and if you can’t, expect to get slashed up if you get through it.

[/quote]

Huh, I posted that exact pic first thing this morning trying to make this point. It won’t stay up there for long, in my experience. A little too NFSW I guess, but an important illustration IMO.

Anybody who thinks a knife isn’t a deadly weapon, regardless of their own fighting skill is…
grossly misinformed. Talk to any reputable military or LEO CQB/Combatives or civilian RBSD instructor and ask them if they would have any interest in going hands on against a determined, knife-wielding attacker when they themselves have a firearm at the ready. They will very likely say something that sounds a lot like “F*#k no, I’d shoot him.”

Again, not commenting on the video, just the whole idea that anybody with a little training can brush aside a knife no problem.

83

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]WN76 wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Agree with batman. If a suspect is brandishing a knife, the officer is authorized to use deadly force. I believe here and there are some stipulations… a knife is considered a deadly weapon within a 20 foot range, but not outside of it.

But that being said, I believe in this case it would have been better to shoot to disable, rather than kill.[/quote]

A knife isnt a deadly weapon to a person with any type of fighting skill.

I can think of so many ways to avoid being stabbed or getting the weapon away from the situation completely.
[/quote]

I don’t usually post in Get a Life, but for this post…I had to.

This is some of the dumbest, biggest load of bullshit I have read.
Do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.[/quote]

Why?

Because i would rather see less people shot?

Lol ok im done. I will just keep training for the day i need to fight and rely on my hands instead of a gun.

Pussy.[/quote]

You’ve seen too many movies.

If you’re training at a half decent place, your instructor will tell you to run away and if you can’t, expect to get slashed up if you get through it.

[/quote]

Huh, I posted that exact pic first thing this morning trying to make this point. It won’t stay up there for long, in my experience. A little too NFSW I guess, but an important illustration IMO.

Anybody who thinks a knife isn’t a deadly weapon, regardless of their own fighting skill is…
grossly misinformed. Talk to any reputable military or LEO CQB/Combatives or civilian RBSD instructor and ask them if they would have any interest in going hands on against a determined, knife-wielding attacker when they themselves have a firearm at the ready. They will very likely say something that sounds a lot like “F*#k no, I’d shoot him.”

Again, not commenting on the video, just the whole idea that anybody with a little training can brush aside a knife no problem.[/quote]

Didn’t see that post. That photo gets passed around a lot. Drives the point home.

Everyone’s a knife defense hero until the old Shocknife comes out of the case…

84

4 policeman aiming guns at a dude that had just been shot 10 times…wtf…

These cops and the cop that shot him were overweight and probably stupid pussies. What kind of people do you think enrol in the force anyway?

All the true bad-asses are in the military or special units (SWAT, NARC, etc)

85

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
4 policeman aiming guns at a dude that had just been shot 10 times…wtf…

These cops and the cop that shot him were overweight and probably stupid pussies. What kind of people do you think enrol in the force anyway?

All the true bad-asses are in the military or special units (SWAT, NARC, etc)[/quote]

Guess where those specialty unit guys started? Patrol.

Also, when you’re on a tac team, you have better armor, weaponry, tactical training, element of surprise, and you go in with a team as opposed to going after a dangerous offender solo. Being on patrol is a lot more dangerous than being in a specialized response team due to the unknown. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yea, the cop who shot was fat as fuck. There was one chubby guy on scene. You have excellent observation skills.

There is no way the guy could pull out and gun and get a shot or two off while on the ground right?

Again, you have not a clue.

86

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Elegua360 wrote:
Kindly google or wikipedia the phrase, “Tueller drill.”

The idea that a knife is ‘no problem’ for someone with skills is inaccurate, and in many situations and ranges the knife can be deployed more readily than the gun.

Knife disarms are great if you have no choice, but if you rely on that as your go-to position, a stabbing is in your eventual future.[/quote]

But I think to be perfectly realistic, the average assailant with a knife is not going to be any better using it than the average cop is going to be stopping him. So it just comes back to gun > knife.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with ‘better.’ The Tueller drill has nothing to do with any particular skill in the knife – it just is a timing of an average person pulling a knife, closing distance, and striking the gun wielder with said knife.

When the knife wielder is within 21 feet (~7 meters) of the handgun wielder, the knife user will hit home more than 70% of the time, before the gun can be fired.

Since I take it nobody is going to do the actual search…

Now…all that said, I think there are a LOT of less-than-lethal options (though none of them include kung fu, outside of pubescent fantasy land), and more police departments need to train officers to have a better range of escalation of force. I’m simply saying that in this situation, if you only have a gun, you use it on the knife wielder.

87

At WN:

Are you like a spokesman for the police or something?

A real cop would have shot the guy and subdued him immediately.

Why are you depending pussy cops?

88

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
At WN:

Are you like a spokesman for the police or something?

A real cop would have shot the guy and subdued him immediately.

Why are you depending pussy cops?[/quote]

Well, this real cop did shoot and subdue the subject.

What do you do for a living?

89

I think it is hard to make a judgement on exactly what happened from 3 min of youtube. While the main discussion point has been the knife and whether a LEO should be able to disarm I think there may be some other considerations.

Firstly could this be an offender with previous violent convictions/weapons arrests/assaults? If so then a solo police officer who thinks he sees a knife may indeed panic or react in this way.

Going into that situation personally I would worry that even if I was willing to attempt to do a hands on knife disarm that while being tangled up with the suspect I would be stabbed, shot or otherwise incapacitated by a family member or friend. Going hands on with no cover man means a loss of situational awareness and an inability to control the area. n example of what can happen in a situation like this happened the other day in my neck of the woods.

http://www.news.com.au/national/police-officer-bryson-anderson-killed-in-knife-attack-in-western-sydney/story-fndo4bst-1226531502338

Also in an adrenaline response situation like that when he made the decision to start shooting, he was most likley so pumped up he kept going and fired almost the whole magazine, you can see in the video he only begins to regather himself when he reports ‘shots fired.’

I don’t agree it was right or wrong because ther is not enough information, I just had some thoughts on the video.

BTW after getting owned with the shockknife I would most likely avoid going hands on if I could.

90

I don’t think a lot of people are complaining that the cop should have physically disarmed him. I think the majority of complaints are centred on the number of shots the cop fired at the deceased - essentially giving him 0 chance of surviving.

I know cops have the right to use “deadly force” in situations where they feel their life is in danger but they also have the responsibility in ensuring there are no other alternatives.

The deceased shouldn’t have made an aggressive move regardless. At the least this serves as a deterrent to those who saw the video in cases where they may think about making any moves at law enforcement. You never know what you’re going to get.

At the same time I have no problems with the family of the deceased finding out the identity of that cop at taking care of him. I wouldn’t condone it but I wouldn’t lose any sleep either - let’s just say that.

91

I’m usually a lurker, but I thought I’d chime in on this.

I’m a police officer. Instead of getting in a pissing match with all the hand-to-hand combat pros and people that think cops are pussies for using their gun, I’ll make a suggestion. For those of you in the U.S., go to your local police department and try to do a ride along. Then you can ask questions. You can also see that police are human beings that want to go home to their wife and kids at night instead of chuck-norrising a knife out of someone’s hands. I wouldn’t wish experiencing something like this video on anyone, but maybe you’ll catch a glimpse of what police officers do and might have to do on a daily basis, and have a better understanding of what happened here.

There are about a thousand unknown factors in this video. I won’t Monday Morning Quarterback the officers involved.

93

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

At the same time I have no problems with the family of the deceased finding out the identity of that cop at taking care of him. I wouldn’t condone it but I wouldn’t lose any sleep either - let’s just say that. [/quote]

Saying you have ‘no problems with’ it is condoning it you lunatic.

94

It was totally unnecessary to shoot the 12 bullets (total 13shots) when he was already falling sideways and had nothing in his hands. Also it was fced up not to let the wife stop with bleeding out. 1 bullet in the leg wouldve been enough to stop him from running.

Cop was obviously kill-crazed/racist or newb since he didnt keep his cool. But black guy was quite stupid too for reaching something when there’s a cop pointing a gun and yelling hands in the air.

95

My personal feeling is that the cop used excessive force, but as others have said it is impossible to say how you’d react in a life or death situation.

As for those saying a knife isn’t a deadly weapon - I completely disagree. You only have to be stabbed once. No matter how good you are at fighting I imagine it is extremely difficult to avoid being stabbed once.

96

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

Oh, well then THAT makes it all right.

[/quote]

Why do you think they’re trained to do that? Do you think there’s a good reason for it or are they just trained to be malicious?

[quote]

Pigs.[/quote]

We’re talking about cops not your mother and sister.[/quote]

You must be a cop.

Pig.

97

[quote]Chushin wrote:
The large number of shots that always seem to raise the ire of the “experts” with no experience is a remnant evolutionary neurological response.

Repeatedly pulling the trigger (often without realizing it) is the modern equivalent of smashing a wild animal or an enemy over and over to be sure the threat is neutralized. The cavemen who hit once or twice, then stopped, didn’t survive very long.[/quote]

On a rabbit or small gazelle?

My point being the victim was not a threat.

98

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
At WN:

Are you like a spokesman for the police or something?

A real cop would have shot the guy and subdued him immediately.

Why are you depending pussy cops?[/quote]

He must be one of those motherfucking trigger happy pigs.

As soon as they get into that fucking uniform, they go on a power trip. Motherfuckers.

99

[quote]item9 wrote:
I’m usually a lurker, but I thought I’d chime in on this.

I’m a police officer. Instead of getting in a pissing match with all the hand-to-hand combat pros and people that think cops are pussies for using their gun, I’ll make a suggestion. For those of you in the U.S., go to your local police department and try to do a ride along. Then you can ask questions. You can also see that police are human beings that want to go home to their wife and kids at night instead of chuck-norrising a knife out of someone’s hands. I wouldn’t wish experiencing something like this video on anyone, but maybe you’ll catch a glimpse of what police officers do and might have to do on a daily basis, and have a better understanding of what happened here.

There are about a thousand unknown factors in this video. I won’t Monday Morning Quarterback the officers involved.[/quote]

One of my friends is married to a cop and she knows what I think about that fucking bastard. I’ve told him what I think about him. She knows why I feel that way. He knows why I feel that way. I don’t care if he’s a good guy when he’s home with his wife. It’s funny how different he is when he’s not wearing that fucking police uniform. It’s like he’s got a split personality.

I’ve told her if one day he gets shot dead or stabbed, I will fucking spit on his grave, then open a bottle of champagne, drink the champagne and piss on his grave.

100

Jean Charles De Menezes. RIP. And all what the police said was fucking false.

Sickening pigs. They shoot dogs, grannies, children, apparent knife carriers… they may as well shoot their own wives and children too. Fuck them.