i was reading the preview for the Book warrior diet from out of renegade training for football. And it seems very strange undereating during the day, and over eating at night. i dont understand how this would work, has any one tried this?
Here’s T-mag review of the Warrior Diet. This is from a “Stuff We Like” column- although they didn’t like it.
"The book begins with praise from many popular fitness personalities and diet gurus, including Pavel Tsatsouline, Charles Poliquin, Brian Batcheldor, John Davies, and Udo Erasmus. Sounds pretty hopeful, but we know a few of these people and, well, they don’t eat this way. Thus begins the theme of this review: everyone agrees Ori’s ideas are fascinating, but no one actually follows them. (Many of these guys also used to be featured in Ori’s magazine, so maybe they were just being nice to the boss, I don’t know.)
The book is a bit scattered, jumping from Greek and Roman history lessons, to recipes, then back to exploring the ideals of Romanticism. In between the parts that have virtually nothing to do with diet, Ori provides chapters on training, a Q and A section, what to eat in the undereating and overeating phases, and a chapter on supplements. (Surprise! He has his own line of “Warrior” supplements, including colostrum, emzymes, minerals, and a “male performance” product in which he doesn’t list the ingredients.)
Ori says you can munch on some raw veggies and enjoy some fruit juice during the day, but you should eat only one big meal at night. The nighttime feeding session should start with raw vegetables, then continue with cooked veggies and protein, and then finish with some traditional carb sources. Most of this food stuff should be organic or free range. This is not an “eat anything you want” diet. Ori argues against consuming too many sugars and other simple carbs.
Several things to discuss here. I have no doubt a diet like this will help you get lean. After all, if your maintenance level of calories is 3000 per day, but you have to get all 3000 in one meal, then you’re probably going to fall short. Also, by the time you get to the majority of the carb intake, you’re going to be pretty full already so carb intake will naturally be reduced.
That brings us to one of many inconsistencies in the book. Ori blasts other diets like the Atkins Diet and says that carbs are the main fuel source for the brain (which is debatable), but then he suggests a diet where you’re basically in a ketogenic state most of the day. Huh? Did I miss something?
He also says that protein is a “top priority,” but then suggests a zero protein diet all day and one meal in the evening — where you’d have trouble getting in all your protein goals if you go by the overfeeding rules. Then he says that if your goal is to gain muscle, eat two grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. That’s means I’d have eat over 400 grams of protein in one meal at the end of the day. First, that’s almost impossible. Second, although I believe a person can absorb and utilize a lot of protein in one sitting, I’m not so sure about 400 grams!
As you can see, this diet is not designed for bodybuilders or people who want to gain muscle mass. Yes, I think you’ll get lean on this diet, but forget about building a lot of muscle. Based on the feedback we’ve received here at T-mag, out of those who tried the diet when it was first introduced, about half failed miserably. Those that stuck with it lost weight, but reported no muscle gains. That’s not a scientific study or anything, just some info we’ve gathered based on reader feedback.
Ori is also a big fan of hunger. Although he says that you’ll adapt to once-per-day eating, he talks even more about the virtues of being hungry. “Wild cats look their best when they are hungry — so do you,” he writes. He says that frequent eating causes all sorts of problems and leads to sluggishness, while being hungry triggers alertness, creativity and “freedom.”
Now, I do understand where he’s coming from here. A high GI carb meal for breakfast or lunch will lead to a “bonk” by early afternoon. Likewise, a very large meal can leave you feeling tired and mentally foggy. But that doesn’t mean you should skip those meals, just make better food choices! Ori is throwing out the baby with the bath water. And I’m not too convinced that hunger is a virtue or a “sign of health.”
There’s also a lot of talk about cleansing and detoxifying, those new age buzzwords which, to me, are kind of meaningless. Like most people who throw around these terms, Ori never really said what all these toxins are, but he does sell a supplement to protect you against radioactive fallout. Really.
I do agree with Ori on several counts: 1) sugar is bad, 2) soy is best avoided, and 3) probiotics and phytonutrients are important. That’s about it.
In short, this book is very interesting and a good read, but the diet itself is goofy and based more on new-age spiritualism and wonky history than science.
Although The Warrior Diet book covers training in detail, there are two companion videos. The quality and production of the videos are very good. Ori's Israeli accent is thick but you can follow it if you pay attention. The focus of Warrior Training is on functional strength. Strength training is composed mostly of compound free weight movements with a few machines and resistance band exercises thrown in. Ori suggests that your training session be under 45 minutes, preferably 15 to 20 minutes. The cardio portion basically involves doing sprints (while on a stationary bike or treadmill), followed by more moderate activity, and then sprinting again. The training is mostly aimed at newbies and I like the fact that he includes pull-ups, front squats, and deadlifts — exercises most beginners neglect. He also demonstrated some interesting ab movements that's I've since tried and liked. Most of the exercises come in "giant set" fashion and often you begin with pre-exhaustion movements.
Later, Ori says, "There is no substitute for the leg extension." (Something tells me Poliquin didn't catch that part before he praised the book and videos.) Ori says to always do cardio first before weight training and always stretch afterward or you'll make yourself weak. I can hear Ian King swearing all the way from Australia.
But again, that's about as far as my "niceness" can go. I had several problems with his training ideas. First, he said never to train to failure. I don't think even Ori believes this. Why? Because he also suggests a lot of partial rep movements at the end of regular sets. In his demonstrations at least, he often had to have a spotter help him get the last rep. We call that failure. And why use partials and half-reps unless you've reached a point where you can no longer use the full range of motion? I'm also not crazy about his suggested training split. For example, he splits shoulder work into two consecutive days, doing presses and upright rows on one day and lateral raises and bent raises on the next. Paired with the inclines and clean and presses he suggests, I think the shoulders are getting hit too hard and too often, while other movements like horizontal rowing are all but neglected. Finally, Ori's form is not always that good although he verbally stresses good form. It's almost painful watching his butt come off the bench while he struggles to press 135 pounds. The rest of the video provides a few bodyweight-only exercises like one leg squats and a variety of bent leg "frog jumps" and one legged hopping which looked positively exhausting. The man is obviously in great cardiovascular shape.
In short, unless you're a total beginner who's never stepped in the gym before, I don't think you'll need the videos. The illustrations in the book are adequate. But if you don't know a front squat from a back squat, then the vids will help. Summary: You may be wondering, "We know how Ori eats and we know how Ori trains, so what does his body look like?" Well, you can't judge a person's level of knowledge by their physical appearance alone. After all, genetics and steroid use play pretty big roles when it comes to appearance and we know plenty of bodybuilders who look great but don't know shit about training. Likewise, there are a lot of training gurus out there who aren't very muscular at all. Ori is in great shape for a middle aged guy. He looks better than 99% of other men his age. He's very lean and his muscles are sharply defined. In fact, when he demonstrates an exercise and his muscles contract, he looks like a walking anatomy chart. Standing relaxed he looks like he's in good shape. Wearing street clothes he doesn't look like he lifts weights at all. That's okay, he's not a bodybuilder. He doesn't want to look that way and admits to be naturally lean anyway saying it's very easy for him to lose weight. The point is, if your goal is to look big in a T-shirt, then this isn't the diet or workout for you. If you want to be thin and functional, yeah, it's an okay program and better than eating junk food and sitting on the couch all day. For me, well, I want to look fairly big and symmetrical and weigh between 200 and 220 pounds. The Warrior Diet and workout won't get me there or keep me there. If you like the compact and lean look, then give it a shot. If you want to stretch the sleeves of a large T-shirt, then there are much better diet and training plans available."
I need to clarify something. It’s better to name the person who wrote something than to just say “Here’s what T-mag said.”
T-mag didn’t say it, I did.
That’s only fair because some who work for T-mag may not agree with what was written. (Actually, everyone I’ve talked to at T-mag does think the Warrior diet is a bad joke, but I digress.) TEK, I do however appreciate you taking the time to look up the review and paste it here.
A few other things: In the book biz there’s a tradition of “you say something nice about my book and I’ll say something nice about yours” between label mates. I think it’s called log rolling or something like that. That could be a reason why so many respectable people praised the Warrior Diet book when it real life none of them actually like it or suggest anyone eat that way. As I said in the review, many of those who praised the diet also have books published by the same company - Dragondoor. Others were featured in Ori’s now defunct “Mind and Muscle Power” magazine. (I used to write three columns for that mag myself.) I can only guess they were playing nice with their boss or former boss since his ideas go against everything they say.
Another possibility is that the nice reviews were taken out of context. For example, someone could pick apart my negative review of the Warrior Diet and use the line “I have no doubt this diet will get you lean”. Taken out of context, that sounds like a great review, but if you read the whole thing you know I think the diet plan is horrible. I doubt this is what happened though. It was probably log rolling.
A person in this biz has to be very careful what he puts his name on. For example, a quote of mine is being used for Charles Staley’s new book. That’s cool because I meant what I said and Charles cleared it with me before using it. I think what happens sometimes is that the person is just trying to be nice so they offer a quote for something they don’t believe in or haven’t even read. It’s tricky. I like the publisher of the Warrior Diet book too. He’s sent me a lot of free stuff. And it was tempting to “play nice” when he sent me the Warrior Diet book and videos. I had the choice of pissing a friend off or being honest. I chose to be honest. To do otherwise would destroy the integrity of the “Stuff We Like” column. Dragondoor seemed to take it well although I suddenly don’t get free stuff anymore. 
Anyway, unfortunately, the above practices of being nice and log rolling have led many people to take the Warrior Diet seriously when no one does behind closed doors.
Thanks for the honest info chris. Always interesting to hear what really goes on behind the scenes.
Mike Mahler who wrote the article Ryan refered to has on numerous occasions (on forum and other places)stated his personal success with the diet and he is a real fan of it. Nothing against Mike but as a fan the diet it is more of an advertorial than an unbiased analysis, sort of a “Stuff I like”. For some the diet can work very well, it could be like the prison muscle thread, goes against the trend/expert opinion but the evidence is there, hmmm similar comments have been made about HST and Renegade Training as well!
No offense to Mike, but isn’t he also a vegetarian? That sorta makes me disregard his nutrition advice to tell you the truth. Sorry Mike! I still love ya!
I think the warrior diet has alot to do with spirituality (and Romanticism) and not a whole lot to do about established nutrition. If your main goal is size/strength or performance I think it’s a bust. If it’s more personal like taking yourself to every limit (mostly hunger) and prevailing, then go for it. I used it during a period when I did not have the time or energy to train effectively and it stopped me from giving in to my food cravings and becomming a fat bastard (the MD-6 might also have helped).
I like the Warrior Diet and do not think that I am biased. I do not make a dime in anyway from the WD or Ori. I tried eating 6 meals a day and still beleive it is the way to go to get bigger etc. No doubt about that. However, I do not care about getting bigger and rather have more free time and be lean and strong. Just my personal choice. By the way, no offense for not taking my advice since I am a vegetarian. Do what works for you.
I have personally used the diet, but my results have been much better with other diets.
Mike, you say you don’t make money from the Warrior Diet or Ori, but your website is hosted through Dragon Door publications who publishes his books. While you say your not making money off of Ori etc. it would seem obvious that being hosted by Dragon Door would persuade you to write good things about an author of theirs. Obviously you can make the same criticism of any of the t-mag contributors but, they seem to be a bit more up front about it. Your above statement could be construed as misleading. So maybe you could clarify this in case I’m misunderstanding.
Okay, let me hit this dead on. I genuinly like the Warrior diet but do not agree with everything that ori states such as eating fruits during the day and taking whey protein. Also, as many of you know, I am a vegetarian and ori eats meat. Next, just because dragondoor hosts my site does not mean that they have my balls in a clamp. They have several products that I did not care and have stated so before. I was sent a diet book by them a while back that I did not care for and thus, did not provide positive feedback for. Say what you want, but don’t ever tell me that I am not a free thinker and controlled by someone else. That is 100% bullshit. Every testimonial and praise that I give is genuine. End of discussion.
Oi, I wasn’t trying to discredit you, I just wanted a more clear view of your relationship to Dragon Door etc. I just figured I better ask so that there’s no doubt in my mind. I’ve actually been following the warrior diet for a few days so far, and can’t complain. I’ve also enjoyed everything you’ve written for the intensity web site. I figured, why not ask so I’m not sitting here wondering. I never said you weren’t free to think for yourself, but I’ve always questioned what I’ve read, that’s why I said your quote could be construed that way. I probably should have worded my question better considering it followed several negative remarks about your diet. I’ll try to word my posts a little better in the future.
No problem and I apologize if I came off overly antagonistic(My t-levels are high in the morning:)
I’ve eaten on the Warrior diet on a few cycles just for experment’s sake. I did safely lose weight on the diet but I found myself way too hungry at dinner if not overly thirsty. Eating a pound of lean meat was easy but then my body wanted a gallon of water . Then I found myself getting hungry for two extra meals. That was annoying because it came in hour 2 and hour 3. Fuck, I do have a social life. Oh yeah, whatever you think the Warrior Diet is, it’s not an eat anything you want diet. Go for the ice cream and pizza in meals #2 and #3 and you become a carb puff-up doll by the end of week and you won’t lose any weight. Keep the protein coming w/ moderate carbs. I think that’s why some failed on the diet. I fault Ori for not revealing his recommended meal plan after Tim Patterson offered to print it awhile back. If he did, he may of had more positive responses from T-maggers everytime this thread comes up.
Hey Mike, no worries! A little edge is to be expected with all the T floating around the forum! I’ll post my results with the diet in a few weeks, for anyone thats interested. I’d also have to agree with the above post by Carwreck. Without any specific nutritional guidelines from Ori, its a fair guess that people may have gone about it willy nilly and didn’t keep any steady track of the diet. Carwreck: I’ve gotten really thirsty on it too! Then again I’ve been really trying to get in a ton of water lately since thats an area I usually slack in.