[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Yes I personally think drugs should be illegal. And I never said that people cant be the victim of “a” government. I do think that people that are the victims of the US government are not the people sitting in jail because the couldn’t “just say no”. Those are not victims. They committed a crime, they are criminals. And yes the government should create consequences for the breaking of laws, otherwise what would be the deterrent. If someone shoots me I want them to go to prison. If someone sells my kid drugs, I want them to got to prison. Possession of small amounts of drugs should be ticketed and punished, not with prison time, on the first and maybe second offence. The punishment for each progressive offense should escalate quickly.[/quote]
Who are the victims of the U.S. government?
If sugar or protein powder is declared a drug, will you still believe those in possession need to be punished?[/quote]
But they aren’t. Not an answer to my question. [/quote]
Sugar is by far more destructive than pot . IMO sugar is a drug
[/quote]
Sugar is more destructive than pot is not a fact, merely an opinion based off speculation.
For two, still didn’t answer my question about victims of the US government?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Are people really acting like there’s some easy solution to the war on drugs? The minimum sentences were put in place for a reason, that reason may have backfired but it was an attempt to fix it. Letting everybody go is just another attempt in the opposite direction that won’t work.
Look at how differently everybody is looking at something as simple as a stop sign?
[/quote]
If only we could go back in time and figure out how we ended the war on alcohol, then we may find a solution.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Are people really acting like there’s some easy solution to the war on drugs? The minimum sentences were put in place for a reason, that reason may have backfired but it was an attempt to fix it. Letting everybody go is just another attempt in the opposite direction that won’t work.
Look at how differently everybody is looking at something as simple as a stop sign?
[/quote]
The war has been raging since Nixon , other than spending a SHIT load of money and ruining a SHIT load of lives , what have we accomplished ?
That was honestly the stupidest thing I have ever seen. As someone who has friends and family in law enforcement as well as someone who has been arrested, I can honestly say that if you “resist” the cop should beat the shit out of you until you stop fighting. If he tells you to lie on your stomach and lie on your stomach. Get arrested and sort it out later. Even if you didn’t do anything, getting arrested is not that big of a deal. There job is to dangerous to deal with your stupid shit so just suck it up and be a man and not a punk. Every one I know that talks about how bad the police treated them usually was acting a fool. Common pattern there that you would think people would figure out. When cops react passively this is what happens.
When citizens react passively, this is what happens:
Nobody has a right to anyone else’s life, liberty, or property. Neither a group called government nor another individual should be able to take your rights. The government has to obey laws, too. Any police officer(or other government official) who believes otherwise is wrong.
As far as the video you posted goes, I have seen it many times. Luckily that officer’s mistake only cost him his life and not a fellow officer’s. I hate to say something like that, but it appears that officer had no business in that line of work, and at least he didn’t get somebody else killed. He had many chances to prevent that from occurring, but did nothing instead.
As for, “be a man and not a punk,” in regards to an illegal arrest, I have to assume you didn’t think that through before typing it. It makes no sense otherwise.
[/quote]
If you really believe that America is comparable to Nazi Germany then you need to leave the country. I put no stock in any argument that uses things irrelevant to the discussion. Do you have any evidence police behavior in the US in the last 20 years that would justify the shooting of a cop?[/quote]
I do , one experience I had in Missouri was a shake down by cops 5 or six years ago. It got heated because I would not let them search my car . I had no drugs . I gave them no suspicion. they told me a lot of people coming from the west are doing so just to transport, drugs , that was their reason
[/quote]
Not a victim. You have every right to not allow them to search your car, however, they also have the right to try to hold you to get a search warrant and perform a legal search. How does that make you a victim? I had something similar happen, guy told me that they had a lead on a vehicle like mine being used by a drug dealer. I had nothing to hide so I consented.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Not a victim. You have every right to not allow them to search your car, however, they also have the right to try to hold you to get a search warrant and perform a legal search. How does that make you a victim? I had something similar happen, guy told me that they had a lead on a vehicle like mine being used by a drug dealer. I had nothing to hide so I consented.[/quote]
Nope. If police have probable cause to search your vehicle, then they will search it. They don’t need a search warrant if they have probable cause. They’re not getting a search warrant if they don’t have probable cause.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[/quote]
If you really believe that America is comparable to Nazi Germany then you need to leave the country. I put no stock in any argument that uses things irrelevant to the discussion. Do you have any evidence police behavior in the US in the last 20 years that would justify the shooting of a cop?[/quote]
So you expect the police officer to not put a man in handcuffs that was holding a weapon? Why did the man exit the car with a weapon? What should he have done? Just let the man stand there with a gun that could quickly kill him. So you think the officer trying to take steps to insure his own safety would justify shooting him? Gotta do better than that my friend.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
In all honesty My opinion is Natural Rights is a pie in the sky , a pipe dream and the list goes on . You have the right to kill if you like but you will face a consequence , that is unless no one knows
[/quote]
Unless you’re talking about killing an animal, then you don’t have the right to kill except in defense. You have the ABILITY to kill, but not the right. Your rights end where others’ begin.[/quote]
You have the right to do or be what ever you like just as society has the right to do what ever it likes
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Not a victim. You have every right to not allow them to search your car, however, they also have the right to try to hold you to get a search warrant and perform a legal search. How does that make you a victim? I had something similar happen, guy told me that they had a lead on a vehicle like mine being used by a drug dealer. I had nothing to hide so I consented.[/quote]
Nope. If police have probable cause to search your vehicle, then they will search it. They don’t need a search warrant if they have probable cause. They’re not getting a search warrant if they don’t have probable cause.[/quote]
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights [/quote]
If you go to jail for not consenting to a search, then I hope you have a camera running so you can get a nice paycheck for a civil rights violation.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights [/quote]
If you go to jail for not consenting to a search, then I hope you have a camera running so you can get a nice paycheck for a civil rights violation.[/quote]
This is true. If you went to jail without them finding something in the search, or without you committing a crime that they could charge you with like failure to obey a lawful command or disorderly conduct.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights [/quote]
If you go to jail for not consenting to a search, then I hope you have a camera running so you can get a nice paycheck for a civil rights violation.[/quote]
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So you expect the police officer to not put a man in handcuffs that was holding a weapon? Why did the man exit the car with a weapon? What should he have done? Just let the man stand there with a gun that could quickly kill him. So you think the officer trying to take steps to insure his own safety would justify shooting him? Gotta do better than that my friend.[/quote]
Yes, I do expect that. I believe the man was walking down the street with the gun-I could be wrong-where did you hear that he exited a car with the rifle? The man committed no crime, so the officer should have done nothing-maybe walk up and talk to the guy if he wanted to try to get the man to consent to having his rifle taken. The officer has no right to do anything that anyone else couldn’t in that situation. The man would probably not be justified in shooting the officer in that exact scenario, but he could have justifiably resisted the officer(not saying the courts would see it that way-the courts are government). The officer may then have done something to create a situation in which the man could justifiably have killed him.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights [/quote]
If you go to jail for not consenting to a search, then I hope you have a camera running so you can get a nice paycheck for a civil rights violation.[/quote]
[/quote]
So these people had already produced their license’s I am assuming? Because if not the cops could have arrested them for driving without a license or failure to comply. You only have a reasonable expectation of privacy when on the road because driving is not a right. It is a privilege.
I think one point to consider is why do a lot of European countries , cops carry no guns . Could it be the WAR on Drugs ? Or should I say the absence of one
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights [/quote]
If you go to jail for not consenting to a search, then I hope you have a camera running so you can get a nice paycheck for a civil rights violation.[/quote]
[/quote]
So these people had already produced their license’s I am assuming? Because if not the cops could have arrested them for driving without a license or failure to comply. You only have a reasonable expectation of privacy when on the road because driving is not a right. It is a privilege. [/quote]
No these are check points checking Immigration status , I have been through many . I never really thought but they are what our constitution guaranteed us against
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So you expect the police officer to not put a man in handcuffs that was holding a weapon? Why did the man exit the car with a weapon? What should he have done? Just let the man stand there with a gun that could quickly kill him. So you think the officer trying to take steps to insure his own safety would justify shooting him? Gotta do better than that my friend.[/quote]
Yes, I do expect that. I believe the man was walking down the street with the gun-I could be wrong-where did you hear that he exited a car with the rifle? The man committed no crime, so the officer should have done nothing-maybe walk up and talk to the guy if he wanted to try to get the man to consent to having his rifle taken. The officer has no right to do anything that anyone else couldn’t in that situation. The man would probably not be justified in shooting the officer in that exact scenario, but he could have justifiably resisted the officer(not saying the courts would see it that way-the courts are government). The officer may then have done something to create a situation in which the man could justifiably have killed him.[/quote]
If he did something in resisting arrest while handling a firearm, which caused the officer to draw and then he proceeded to kill the officer, he is guilty of capital murder and should be put to death quickly so as to not waste my tax dollars on his sorry ass. The disarming and handcuffing his for his protection as well as the officers. It keeps misunderstandings from occurring in intense situations. There is no scenario there where he would have been justified in killing the officer other than something quite obvious.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Are people really acting like there’s some easy solution to the war on drugs? The minimum sentences were put in place for a reason, that reason may have backfired but it was an attempt to fix it. Letting everybody go is just another attempt in the opposite direction that won’t work.
Look at how differently everybody is looking at something as simple as a stop sign?
[/quote]
I actually agree with you on this.
IMO users of marijuana should be treated like alcohol users. Do whatever you want to in your house, but if you are driving then DUI come into play. Sellers of marijuana should be treated like bars, and liquor stores. If you allow someone to get high in your establishment and they drive and kill someone you are on the hook.
IMO any drug that can kill you because of an overdose (heroine, crack, cocaine…) Should still be treated as it is now, both users and sellers.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
They will stop you and badger you , you have to make the decision Am I willing to go to jail to stand up for my rights [/quote]
If you go to jail for not consenting to a search, then I hope you have a camera running so you can get a nice paycheck for a civil rights violation.[/quote]
[/quote]
So these people had already produced their license’s I am assuming? Because if not the cops could have arrested them for driving without a license or failure to comply. You only have a reasonable expectation of privacy when on the road because driving is not a right. It is a privilege. [/quote]
No these are check points checking Immigration status , I have been through many . I never really thought but they are what our constitution guaranteed us against
[/quote]
You should legally have to produce your license. When you begin to drive a car you essentially are agreeing to be ok with complying with the laws of the road, one of those being a license, and it is well established that they can request ID at these things. Unless there is some exclusion that specifically applies to immigration.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Are people really acting like there’s some easy solution to the war on drugs? The minimum sentences were put in place for a reason, that reason may have backfired but it was an attempt to fix it. Letting everybody go is just another attempt in the opposite direction that won’t work.
Look at how differently everybody is looking at something as simple as a stop sign?
[/quote]
I actually agree with you on this.
IMO users of marijuana should be treated like alcohol users. Do whatever you want to in your house, but if you are driving then DUI come into play. Sellers of marijuana should be treated like bars, and liquor stores. If you allow someone to get high in your establishment and they drive and kill someone you are on the hook.
IMO any drug that can kill you because of an overdose (heroine, crack, cocaine…) Should still be treated as it is now, both users and sellers. [/quote]
This is where the war makes no sense, there are food that kill more people that pot . The whole problem of drugs should be treated medically. I have friends that went through successful drug rehabs and they were fucking expensive . But so is incarceration
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
If he did something in resisting arrest while handling a firearm, which caused the officer to draw and then he proceeded to kill the officer, he is guilty of capital murder and should be put to death quickly so as to not waste my tax dollars on his sorry ass. The disarming and handcuffing his for his protection as well as the officers. It keeps misunderstandings from occurring in intense situations. There is no scenario there where he would have been justified in killing the officer other than something quite obvious. [/quote]
So it’s safe to assume you believe the police are above the law?
Say a man runs out of his house, tries to take the firearm you are legally carrying, then draws his gun on you when you resist; you believe the other man was in the right?
The officer had NO LAWFUL REASON to detain him or take his firearm.
I knew America had slipped, but please tell me we haven’t slipped to the point where we say, “If the government does it, then it’s lawful.” Do we no longer believe in the rule of law, only government?
