War on Drugs?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]T11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]T11 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
It was only like my 3rd or 4th time to drink liquor. I just kept loading up this cup of Hawaiian punch with it drink half, more vodka, drink half more vodka, till it was almost pure vodka. I drank it so fast that it didn’t have time to hit me before I had way to much. I don’t really recall a lot about that night. To this day the smell of Hawaiian punch or vodka makes me want to hurl.[/quote]

So here is a question for you. Would you rather get in a car with someone who is high and just smoked pot or someone who is drunk? You can’t choose not to get in the car. [/quote]

I would drive.
[/quote]

His point is that most drivers preform much better at operating a motor vehicle under the influence of pot than alcohol [/quote]

I know that, but my point is I would not like to be in a car being driven by either. If I am in the car I would be driving.[/quote]

But at least in the car driven by the stoner you are only going around the corner to 7-11 for munchies. The drunk is out cruising the back roads.
[/quote]

I edited my previous post, but it did not take. I was going to offer a run to the drive through of my stoned friend for some munchies.
[/quote]

-___- exactly and our government waste how much money on border control going after drug cartels when their most profitable drug is pot. We eliminate that and they will become less powerful. Not only that but studies show that America and Holland have similar percentage of pot users. The only difference is in one country its illegal and in the other it is legal. If a person wants to smoke it it is him/her choice it shouldn’t be the government. All we are doing is putting innocent people in jail, wasting money on this “war on drugs” and giving more power to drug dealers and cartels. To this point it is getting more of a common sense thing. When polls have shown 50% support the legalization of marijuana and only 3% of Congress does, now that is a problem.
[/quote]

I am all for legalizing maryijuana, but there needs to be the same type of rules that alcohol has on it. You can smoke a bowl in your house, but if you go out driving (yes I saw the video) and you kill someone or have an accident it would be a DUI on your record and you would get the same type of punishment.

Are you for that?
[/quote]

Of course and I would say the vast majority of legalize people would be. People should be allowed to do what they want to do as long as it doesn’t infringe upon others rights or cause others harm. Smoke weed all day long (I don’t smoke it, but think it being illegal is dumb as hell and very anti-freedom) as long as you aren’t hurting anyone else. Why does the government have to spend a shit ton of money trying to protect everyone from themselves?

Honestly just like what I said earlier it is strange logic. And many of these righties on this forum were up in arms over Bloomberg’s pop crusade. Why? It’s clearly people thinking gov’t knows best. Why else make pot illegal? Pitt doesn’t know what’s best for him let the government help him out. Fatties don’t know soda is bad so let the government help them out. Why is the soda an outrage and gov’t overreach but this isn’t? And again (the most important thing) the war on drugs isn’t being won by anyone unless you count powerful cartels and tons of money towards prisons as examples of winning.

I say let people be free until they fuck someone else up. Then we can do whatever to them. Drink, smoke, gamble, eat McDonald’s ten times a day, watch porn, etc. You should be free to do all this shit as long as it isn’t directly harming someone else. It’s essential that people are able to make decisions for themselves even if we can agree that these are bad decisions for the individual.

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[quote]H factor wrote:
Smoke weed all day long (I don’t smoke it, but think it being illegal is dumb as hell and very anti-freedom) as long as you aren’t hurting anyone else. Why does the government have to spend a shit ton of money trying to protect everyone from themselves?

Honestly just like what I said earlier it is strange logic. And many of these righties on this forum were up in arms over Bloomberg’s pop crusade. Why? It’s clearly people thinking gov’t knows best. Why else make pot illegal?

I say let people be free until they fuck someone else up. Then we can do whatever to them. Drink, smoke, gamble, eat McDonald’s ten times a day, watch porn, etc. You should be free to do all this shit as long as it isn’t directly harming someone else. It’s essential that people are able to make decisions for themselves even if we can agree that these are bad decisions for the individual. [/quote]

Exactly. This makes the right look stupid. I say the same thing every time I hear a “conservative”(in quotes because I have no idea what the terms liberal and conservative are supposed to mean other than democrat and republican) get outraged over a soda ban or something. The precedent exists for such a ridiculous ban…and “conservatives” support it.

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[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
Smoke weed all day long (I don’t smoke it, but think it being illegal is dumb as hell and very anti-freedom) as long as you aren’t hurting anyone else. Why does the government have to spend a shit ton of money trying to protect everyone from themselves?

Honestly just like what I said earlier it is strange logic. And many of these righties on this forum were up in arms over Bloomberg’s pop crusade. Why? It’s clearly people thinking gov’t knows best. Why else make pot illegal?

I say let people be free until they fuck someone else up. Then we can do whatever to them. Drink, smoke, gamble, eat McDonald’s ten times a day, watch porn, etc. You should be free to do all this shit as long as it isn’t directly harming someone else. It’s essential that people are able to make decisions for themselves even if we can agree that these are bad decisions for the individual. [/quote]

Exactly. This makes the right look stupid. I say the same thing every time I hear a “conservative”(in quotes because I have no idea what the terms liberal and conservative are supposed to mean other than democrat and republican) get outraged over a soda ban or something. The precedent exists for such a ridiculous ban…and “conservatives” support it.[/quote]

The right isn’t anymore small government than the left it just matters on what flavor you’re after. Liberal and conservative are generally just words people use so they can cover up when their party fucks up so they can say they aren’t a true… D

emocrat fucks up and you’re a lefty? They were never a liberal. My east coast far left cousins go nuts talking about how XXXX democrat isn’t a true liberal or isn’t progressive enough. Republican fucks up and you’re a righty? Not a true conservative. A RINO! It’s all a bunch of goalpost shifting so neither side has to take the blame ever.

Don’t blame that shit on us :slight_smile:

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Seems like a good farther & son bonding moment

Nice stash bro

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[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I have thought about it, You think that being born black in South Africa or the US, offending the whims of Kim Jong Un, Hitler, or any Russian leader is the equivalent of smoking what is now an illegal drug. You are only a victim by choice. That is not a victim. [/quote]

I have thought about it and the only valid part of your post is being born black (well depending on your view of homosexuality you could have that as a choice or being born that way) otherwise your comparison to the whims of Kim Jong is the same argument of being arrested for the whims of the ATF/US Govt. The fact that you can freely buy tobacco and alcohol (again it was illegal and then everyone said “oh yeah massive fail this is stupid”) and yet we still try to act like pot is somehow worse means that its illegality is based off the whims of men and not the common sense law of the universe. The victim aspect comes into play when you look at mandatory minimums, etc. victims of a stupid and failed system but no you’re right, you are choosing to smoke it so you are not a hapless victim.[/quote]

Exactly. Weird how some of these people were up in arms talking about the NSA. You choose to use a cell phone or computer therefore the government can spy on you because you made that choice. You aren’t a victim, you don’t have to use either.

Strange logic.
[/quote]

Not a valid point. There are no laws against a cell phone or declaring that if you get a cell then people will be listening. The equivalent would be for the government to have started off telling people that they were going to monitor all cell and computer usage at all times, people choosing to do it anyway, and then people saying they were victims of spying. In that instance I would agree with you about not being a victim. When smoking drugs the rules to the game are already well known so by participating then you are agreeing to them.

To the second part of this, I have given it a little thought. I think that this is an issue that out to be passed on to state and local government. Much like alcohol or gambling with dry counties and the like. Do the same with pot. All the licensing and oversight that applies to alcohol and tobacco should apply just the same. Also, like D said, any of the laws that apply to alcohol and its usage should apply the same to weed. I think this is a fair suggestion, what do you think?

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I have thought about it, You think that being born black in South Africa or the US, offending the whims of Kim Jong Un, Hitler, or any Russian leader is the equivalent of smoking what is now an illegal drug. You are only a victim by choice. That is not a victim. [/quote]

I have thought about it and the only valid part of your post is being born black (well depending on your view of homosexuality you could have that as a choice or being born that way) otherwise your comparison to the whims of Kim Jong is the same argument of being arrested for the whims of the ATF/US Govt. The fact that you can freely buy tobacco and alcohol (again it was illegal and then everyone said “oh yeah massive fail this is stupid”) and yet we still try to act like pot is somehow worse means that its illegality is based off the whims of men and not the common sense law of the universe. The victim aspect comes into play when you look at mandatory minimums, etc. victims of a stupid and failed system but no you’re right, you are choosing to smoke it so you are not a hapless victim.[/quote]

Exactly. Weird how some of these people were up in arms talking about the NSA. You choose to use a cell phone or computer therefore the government can spy on you because you made that choice. You aren’t a victim, you don’t have to use either.

Strange logic.
[/quote]

Not a valid point. There are no laws against a cell phone or declaring that if you get a cell then people will be listening. The equivalent would be for the government to have started off telling people that they were going to monitor all cell and computer usage at all times, people choosing to do it anyway, and then people saying they were victims of spying. In that instance I would agree with you about not being a victim. When smoking drugs the rules to the game are already well known so by participating then you are agreeing to them.

To the second part of this, I have given it a little thought. I think that this is an issue that out to be passed on to state and local government. Much like alcohol or gambling with dry counties and the like. Do the same with pot. All the licensing and oversight that applies to alcohol and tobacco should apply just the same. Also, like D said, any of the laws that apply to alcohol and its usage should apply the same to weed. I think this is a fair suggestion, what do you think?[/quote]

JBPICK , are you a cop ? if not your mind set is required to be one , I how ever think if the war on drugs does end they will change the type person they are looking for meaning you will be a relic a dinosaur

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Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?[/quote]

Second part would be needed , I am all about regulating it.

I do see that to enforce laws on society that make no sense requires the cops to over look what is wrong with the laws. In other word they must justify it some how . I think the majority of cops justify the way you do

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[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?[/quote]

Second part would be needed , I am all about regulating it.

I do see that to enforce laws on society that make no sense requires the cops to over look what is wrong with the laws. In other word they must justify it some how . I think the majority of cops justify the way you do
[/quote]

That is true with any level of the judicial system, including the supreme court, although they seem to forget that here lately. The Judicial system plays no part in making the laws, they merely enforce them. Legislating from the bench, which is so common now, should never be done. I mean if you want legalization of weed, you aren’t going to a judge to get it granted. You are trying to convince your legislature that it is a good idea.

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[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?[/quote]

Second part would be needed , I am all about regulating it.

I do see that to enforce laws on society that make no sense requires the cops to over look what is wrong with the laws. In other word they must justify it some how . I think the majority of cops justify the way you do
[/quote]

The problem is that it would be so hard to regulate. Once its legal whats to say I can’t just grow it in my backyard with the rest of my garden like a tomato. The government wouldn’t like that though because they can’t tax the fuck out of it.

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[quote]T11 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?[/quote]

Second part would be needed , I am all about regulating it.

I do see that to enforce laws on society that make no sense requires the cops to over look what is wrong with the laws. In other word they must justify it some how . I think the majority of cops justify the way you do
[/quote]

The problem is that it would be so hard to regulate. Once its legal whats to say I can’t just grow it in my backyard with the rest of my garden like a tomato. The government wouldn’t like that though because they can’t tax the fuck out of it. [/quote]

Who would want to regulate a back yard grower , It does not matter what you would choose to do . Kids will get pot, all you can do is punish adults that contribute . Sell it in a store the clerk checks ID that is all you need . Kids could make their own alcohol if they like , but most don’t .

I hope they do not try and turn it into a cash cow because the reason the cartels thrive is because of the cost of doing business. It needs to get to where it would , with no other pressure , be at a fair market price . I can plant a seed wait 10 to 12 weeks and have a half ounce of good weed , what is that worth ? I say 20 maybe 30 dollars

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[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]T11 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?[/quote]

Second part would be needed , I am all about regulating it.

I do see that to enforce laws on society that make no sense requires the cops to over look what is wrong with the laws. In other word they must justify it some how . I think the majority of cops justify the way you do
[/quote]

The problem is that it would be so hard to regulate. Once its legal whats to say I can’t just grow it in my backyard with the rest of my garden like a tomato. The government wouldn’t like that though because they can’t tax the fuck out of it. [/quote]

Who would want to regulate a back yard grower , It does not matter what you would choose to do . Kids will get pot, all you can do is punish adults that contribute . Sell it in a store the clerk checks ID that is all you need . Kids could make their own alcohol if they like , but most don’t .

I hope they do not try and turn it into a cash cow because the reason the cartels thrive is because of the cost of doing business. It needs to get to where it would , with no other pressure , be at a fair market price . I can plant a seed wait 10 to 12 weeks and have a half ounce of good weed , what is that worth ? I say 20 maybe 30 dollars
[/quote]

Your weed prices are wayyyy offf. For good weed it depends how good we are talking about. Are we talking grand daddy purp weed or are we just talking about some good Fire? Besides that though there would go the what age should it be legal thing as well.

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[quote]T11 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]T11 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Na, I am an accountant. I have also smoked quite a bit when I was just starting out in college. I just cannot stand anyone with a victim mentality. Especially when there is very little reason for such.

What did you think of the second part of my post, Pitt?[/quote]

Second part would be needed , I am all about regulating it.

I do see that to enforce laws on society that make no sense requires the cops to over look what is wrong with the laws. In other word they must justify it some how . I think the majority of cops justify the way you do
[/quote]

The problem is that it would be so hard to regulate. Once its legal whats to say I can’t just grow it in my backyard with the rest of my garden like a tomato. The government wouldn’t like that though because they can’t tax the fuck out of it. [/quote]

Who would want to regulate a back yard grower , It does not matter what you would choose to do . Kids will get pot, all you can do is punish adults that contribute . Sell it in a store the clerk checks ID that is all you need . Kids could make their own alcohol if they like , but most don’t .

I hope they do not try and turn it into a cash cow because the reason the cartels thrive is because of the cost of doing business. It needs to get to where it would , with no other pressure , be at a fair market price . I can plant a seed wait 10 to 12 weeks and have a half ounce of good weed , what is that worth ? I say 20 maybe 30 dollars
[/quote]

Your weed prices are wayyyy offf. For good weed it depends how good we are talking about. Are we talking grand daddy purp weed or are we just talking about some good Fire? Besides that though there would go the what age should it be legal thing as well.
[/quote]

I know in the AZ MMJ market it is about $400 and OZ. that is way over price . Besides that , they expect each patient to buy a $400 a year membership fee . Typical Republican response . Then when it does not work, (BECAUSE CARTELS STILL CAN MAKE SHIT LOADS OF MONEY) they will go see it did not take away the criminal element

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If it was legalized the selling of it without an applied for and purchased license would be totally illegal, same as moonshiners or tobacco. And the Cartels power would be taken away, even if they were offering it at a lower price as the benefits of a legal alternative (no risk of jail time) would justify the extra cost. That’s what happened after the repeal of prohibition, which the mob fought to keep in effect.

There would have to be evaluations of the product by the FDA and growing procedures by the EPA if you were going to resale it. Until recently, there was actually a minimum amount of acreage that had to be owned before tobacco could be legally grown. If you want truly legalized pot then this is the way it would be brought down, which is right in line with most other vice products.

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
If it was legalized the selling of it without an applied for and purchased license would be totally illegal, same as moonshiners or tobacco. And the Cartels power would be taken away, even if they were offering it at a lower price as the benefits of a legal alternative (no risk of jail time) would justify the extra cost. That’s what happened after the repeal of prohibition, which the mob fought to keep in effect.

There would have to be evaluations of the product by the FDA and growing procedures by the EPA if you were going to resale it. Until recently, there was actually a minimum amount of acreage that had to be owned before tobacco could be legally grown. If you want truly legalized pot then this is the way it would be brought down, which is right in line with most other vice products.[/quote]

I am not talking acres I talking flower box operations , AZ is not only out pricing cartels they are in some case quadrupling the price.

I watched a video the other day that Michele J Fox said he used Simpson’s oil (AKA HASH OIL) to help with his Parkinson’s . It takes a considerable amount of pot to make hash oil . It would be a lot cheaper to buy you product via black market

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Potentially, the more states that legalized it, the higher the competition would be (although you could run in to interstate commerce laws and what-not), and the market would eventually work itself out. If you want it legalized, you have to accept the conditions of legalization which means the government still gets its share, the mom and pop dealers are still breaking the law unless they get permits, and you may actually have to pay a little more for the privilege of smoking it legally because of increased production fees.

This is the way alcohol and tobacco work which are the two most comparable products. You could still go your own but you would be running a foul of the law if you tried to sell it. If its legal it goes from illegal activity to big business.

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Potentially, the more states that legalized it, the higher the competition would be (although you could run in to interstate commerce laws and what-not), and the market would eventually work itself out. If you want it legalized, you have to accept the conditions of legalization which means the government still gets its share, the mom and pop dealers are still breaking the law unless they get permits, and you may actually have to pay a little more for the privilege of smoking it legally because of increased production fees.

This is the way alcohol and tobacco work which are the two most comparable products. You could still go your own but you would be running a foul of the law if you tried to sell it. If its legal it goes from illegal activity to big business.[/quote]

When I was a kid I knew people that grew tobacco and brewed their own beer , The Gov were not involved with either party . I plan to start brewing some beer in the immediate future and I plan no license procedure

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All of which you can do legally. I know a man who regularly makes his own moonshine. And my grandpa had tobacco in his garden when I was a kid. None of this is illegal. However you cannot sell it.

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
All of which you can do legally. I know a man who regularly makes his own moonshine. And my grandpa had tobacco in his garden when I was a kid. None of this is illegal. However you cannot sell it.[/quote]

I could buy that :slight_smile: