Wacko Conspiracies

[quote]battlelust wrote:
I think we’re discussing different levels of conspiracies. Some issues may be large enough to damage the ENTIRE government.

That said, the command structure of the armed forces (and non-legislative, non-judicial branchs of government) is such that three or four generals or high-ranking officials are all that is needed for an effective conspiracy. The environment of cut-throat competition is not necessarily present in unelected officals and officers. Patriotism is not be overlooked either.

This is a factor that I neglected to mention in my initial post: hierarchy. The effects of a command and control hierarchy, compounded by my initial theorizing of the “automatic damage-control,” could very well, IF the conspiracy was damaging enough, override any other selfish, un-patriotic demands for personal gain.

[/quote]

Bro, this is why we have several different branches of government and that power is semi-distributed among each branch. And incase you haven’t looked out your window lately, these branches of government are anything but united. Within each branch it has it’s own power struggle with elected an non-elected positions. Incase you have never had a government job, the power struggle is just as evident in non-elected positions as most of the promotion relates to political savvy rather than job specific performance.

The mentality of everyone sticking together to preserve the status quo only works if it is a level playing field, and it never is. Someone always has something to gain by some crap coming out about what someone else did. The only time your theory would work is if the entire branch of government was in danger of being eliminated, and how often does that happen? Almost never.

Now as for the idea that all these braches work together to persevere the status quo could never occur because each branch always wants more power than they have. So if one branch does something you can bet your ass that if another branch of government knows about it it would be the first to bring it up and say; “see, the president (executive branch) has too much power, that is what caused this problem. Let’s change the constitution to place more power on congress to regulated the Whitehouse”. Etc.

So the bottom line is that you can never get all the players to put aside their own greed, ambition, or ideals to go along with everyone else. Just like we never all agree on this forum.

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
The main issue is that I can’t buy that the US government could pull this off, it’s just beyond their ability. Their large bureaucratic structure that contains redundancy and inefficiencies of processes, systems, and people makes coordinated and precise actions like a conspiracy virtually impossible.

Actually Lorisco most of the people involved end up being just as surprised as anyone else. Only a small number of people “actually” need to know what’s going on.
[/quote]

JustTheFacts, you don’t appear to know the definition of a “conspiracy”. For it to truly be a conspiracy more than a few need to know about it. Just because a few people hatch a plan independent of the rest of the organization is NOT a conspiracy. Once other people find out it comes out and heads roll.

There have always, and there will always, be people in government trying to do screwing things, but that it not a conspiracy.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
You guys, when there’s a gigantic conspiracy about everything, then life is suddenly less mundane, and reality becomes more like a movie… exciting, thrilling… with gargantuan villains and nameless heroes struggling against insurmountable odds with armies of evil arrayed against them.

I’m sorry, but life is not a TV show. Take heart, sometimes it rains frogs somewhere. Life isn’t all that boring and crappy.

Am I a sheeple because I love my country, and I’m not afraid of my government? Is it because I blindly trust our leaders, and go along with everything they say?

No… I’m just not a pussy. I am not afraid of the big bad wolf because I eat big bad wolves for breakfast. With mustard.

STOP BEING SCARED

[/quote]

Dude, you are taking all the fun out of this! Conspiracies are fun and interesting to talk about. Sure it’s bogus, but so are a lot of things. So just chill man. Sit back and see how bizarre some of these guys are, it’s a kick!

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
dblbass128 wrote:

Tell that to the Jews that survived Nazi Germany.

It is funny you post that. Most conspiracy nuts I am exposed to try to deny the Holocaust. I am glad you are not that far gone.[/quote]

Conspiracy nut, wtf are you talking about

its reality you fuck tard
dont be scared though its ok, you can stay in your shell watching the Michael Jackson trial while CAFTA is being approved by your senators and pushed by members of the Council On Foreign Relations which will absolutely destroy our economy, our sovereignty, and our way of life…and you can cry after the WTO teams up with the corrupted FDA to take away your rights to buy supplements and Vitamin C.

Good job to all of you for staying asleep while most of what you enjoy doing is being turned into shit

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
You guys, when there’s a gigantic conspiracy about everything, then life is suddenly less mundane, and reality becomes more like a movie… exciting, thrilling… with gargantuan villains and nameless heroes struggling against insurmountable odds with armies of evil arrayed against them.

I’m sorry, but life is not a TV show. Take heart, sometimes it rains frogs somewhere. Life isn’t all that boring and crappy.

Am I a sheeple because I love my country, and I’m not afraid of my government? Is it because I blindly trust our leaders, and go along with everything they say?

No… I’m just not a pussy. I am not afraid of the big bad wolf because I eat big bad wolves for breakfast. With mustard.

STOP BEING SCARED

Dude, you are taking all the fun out of this! Conspiracies are fun and interesting to talk about. Sure it’s bogus, but so are a lot of things. So just chill man. Sit back and see how bizarre some of these guys are, it’s a kick!

[/quote]

JFK was killed by the magic bullet

[quote]dblbass128 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
dblbass128 wrote:

Tell that to the Jews that survived Nazi Germany.

It is funny you post that. Most conspiracy nuts I am exposed to try to deny the Holocaust. I am glad you are not that far gone.
[/quote]

Conspiracy nut, wtf are you talking about

its reality you fuck tard…

And the lunar landing was fake too.

BTW, fucktard is one word. Use it correctly.

[quote]dblbass128 wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
You guys, when there’s a gigantic conspiracy about everything, then life is suddenly less mundane, and reality becomes more like a movie… exciting, thrilling… with gargantuan villains and nameless heroes struggling against insurmountable odds with armies of evil arrayed against them.

I’m sorry, but life is not a TV show. Take heart, sometimes it rains frogs somewhere. Life isn’t all that boring and crappy.

Am I a sheeple because I love my country, and I’m not afraid of my government? Is it because I blindly trust our leaders, and go along with everything they say?

No… I’m just not a pussy. I am not afraid of the big bad wolf because I eat big bad wolves for breakfast. With mustard.

STOP BEING SCARED

Dude, you are taking all the fun out of this! Conspiracies are fun and interesting to talk about. Sure it’s bogus, but so are a lot of things. So just chill man. Sit back and see how bizarre some of these guys are, it’s a kick!

JFK was killed by the magic bullet[/quote]

Read Gerald Posners book. And then grow up and make something of your life.

The “magic bullet” is bullshit. The bullet acted consistently with reality and the laws of physics.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
The main issue is that I can’t buy that the US government could pull this off, it’s just beyond their ability. Their large bureaucratic structure that contains redundancy and inefficiencies of processes, systems, and people makes coordinated and precise actions like a conspiracy virtually impossible.

Actually Lorisco most of the people involved end up being just as surprised as anyone else. Only a small number of people “actually” need to know what’s going on.

JustTheFacts, you don’t appear to know the definition of a “conspiracy”. For it to truly be a conspiracy more than a few need to know about it. Just because a few people hatch a plan independent of the rest of the organization is NOT a conspiracy. Once other people find out it comes out and heads roll.

There have always, and there will always, be people in government trying to do screwing things, but that it not a conspiracy.
[/quote]

conspiracy - a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act.

Now how can anyone take your opinion seriously when it’s actually YOU who doesn’t know the definition of a conspiracy?

[quote]
Dude, you are taking all the fun out of this! Conspiracies are fun and interesting to talk about. Sure it’s bogus, but so are a lot of things. So just chill man. Sit back and see how bizarre some of these guys are, it’s a kick! [/quote]

Just so people aren’t worried unneccessarily regarding my last post to you about the coincidences, you should probably explain to them how I was all wrong.

Unless of course you actually buy that it was all TRUELY coincidental? In that case it really goes to show why they aren’t too concerned when those details come out. One time, sure. The second and then a third time and your still buying the pure coincidence scenerio, your in deep denial.

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
The main issue is that I can’t buy that the US government could pull this off, it’s just beyond their ability. Their large bureaucratic structure that contains redundancy and inefficiencies of processes, systems, and people makes coordinated and precise actions like a conspiracy virtually impossible.

Actually Lorisco most of the people involved end up being just as surprised as anyone else. Only a small number of people “actually” need to know what’s going on.

JustTheFacts, you don’t appear to know the definition of a “conspiracy”. For it to truly be a conspiracy more than a few need to know about it. Just because a few people hatch a plan independent of the rest of the organization is NOT a conspiracy. Once other people find out it comes out and heads roll.

There have always, and there will always, be people in government trying to do screwing things, but that it not a conspiracy.

conspiracy - a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act.

Now how can anyone take your opinion seriously when it’s actually YOU who doesn’t know the definition of a conspiracy?

Dude, you are taking all the fun out of this! Conspiracies are fun and interesting to talk about. Sure it’s bogus, but so are a lot of things. So just chill man. Sit back and see how bizarre some of these guys are, it’s a kick!

Just so people aren’t worried unneccessarily regarding my last post to you about the coincidences, you should probably explain to them how I was all wrong.

Unless of course you actually buy that it was all TRUELY coincidental? In that case it really goes to show why they aren’t too concerned when those details come out. One time, sure. The second and then a third time and your still buying the pure coincidence scenerio, your in deep denial.[/quote]

What makes you think that your posts are not being monitored by the government?

Isn’t complacency how the government would theoretically get away with all of this in the first place?

All of you people who are joking and having a good time with this thread have yet to make one good point. “The report was too short” “nuh uh…thats not what i heard” “you are a wacko”

JustTheFacts has offered nothing but his opinions and news reports and information to back them up…and then you all just go “Whats so wrong with blind faith… I done gone trusted my gov’ment… Nu uh, how can that be?!”

I thought the whole joke about politicians and the government was that they were nothing but lying, seedy, self-interested individuals? Since when do they REALLY care about us?

Not to get in the middle of the slam-fest, but the fact the economy is hurting has no impact on the argument that the war is driven by profits.

The economy equals the populace. You all have massive debts that you have to pay, back to the government, because it spent all that money on munitions and supplies.

The companies that sell these products during times of war are making money hand over fist.

This has nothing to do with whether or not you believe there is a conspiracy, just don’t imagine that somebody isn’t making a killing (perhaps a pun) while the government mortgages your future and the future of your children.

Open those eyes…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
dblbass128 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
dblbass128 wrote:

Tell that to the Jews that survived Nazi Germany.

It is funny you post that. Most conspiracy nuts I am exposed to try to deny the Holocaust. I am glad you are not that far gone.

Conspiracy nut, wtf are you talking about

its reality you fuck tard…

And the lunar landing was fake too.

BTW, fucktard is one word. Use it correctly.
[/quote]

That book sux, and so do you with your inability to debate my points.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Not to get in the middle of the slam-fest, but the fact the economy is hurting has no impact on the argument that the war is driven by profits.

The economy equals the populace. You all have massive debts that you have to pay, back to the government, because it spent all that money on munitions and supplies.

The companies that sell these products during times of war are making money hand over fist.

This has nothing to do with whether or not you believe there is a conspiracy, just don’t imagine that somebody isn’t making a killing (perhaps a pun) while the government mortgages your future and the future of your children.

Open those eyes…[/quote]

Vroom, I thought you might find the incredible irony of this piece written by Ben Cohen (of Ben & Jerry’s fame) only one week before 9/11 rather interesting.

Wanted: Enemy to Justify $344 Billion War Budget
By Ben Cohen, AlterNet
Posted on September 4, 2001

You may know some despicable characters, but are they mean enough to apply for this job posting?

ENEMY WANTED. Serious enemy needed to justify Pentagon budget increase. Defense contractors desperate. Interested enemies send letter and photo or video (threatening, ok) to Enemy Search Committee, Priorities Campaign, 1350 Broadway, NY, NY, 10018.

Here’s the deal: We know our politicians have their work cut out for them. They need to find an enemy to justify maintaining the Pentagon budget as if the Cold War never ended. But the pool of credible enemies is evaporating. North Korea is even going diplomatic. The Soviets took themselves out of the running years ago. And countries like Iraq – or tough looking trading partners like China – don’t make the cut.

So, I am distributing a job description as widely as possible to help our politicians find the enemy they seek. Even with the help of defense contractors – who spend $50 million on lobbyists annually – our politicians do not possess the creativity to find the right adversary. It’s clear that the old concept of enemy doesn’t work anymore.

The trouble is the Defense Department needs to find an enemy in a hurry. The Bush Administration has proposed to increase Pentagon spending by $33 billion, the largest defense increase since the Cold War.
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/11427

[quote]dblbass128 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
dblbass128 wrote:

Conspiracy nut, wtf are you talking about

its reality you fuck tard…

And the lunar landing was fake too.

BTW, fucktard is one word. Use it correctly.

That book sux, and so do you with your inability to debate my points.
[/quote]

Please tell me more about this secret ‘reality’ that I’m apparently missing out on.

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
The main issue is that I can’t buy that the US government could pull this off, it’s just beyond their ability. Their large bureaucratic structure that contains redundancy and inefficiencies of processes, systems, and people makes coordinated and precise actions like a conspiracy virtually impossible.

Actually Lorisco most of the people involved end up being just as surprised as anyone else. Only a small number of people “actually” need to know what’s going on.

JustTheFacts, you don’t appear to know the definition of a “conspiracy”. For it to truly be a conspiracy more than a few need to know about it. Just because a few people hatch a plan independent of the rest of the organization is NOT a conspiracy. Once other people find out it comes out and heads roll.

There have always, and there will always, be people in government trying to do screwing things, but that it not a conspiracy.

conspiracy - a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act.

Now how can anyone take your opinion seriously when it’s actually YOU who doesn’t know the definition of a conspiracy?
[/quote]

Ok, fine, have it your way. I totally agree then that two idiots can get together and do something stupid. Ohh no, it’s a conspiracy!!!

Grow up bro! I know that is the dictionary Definition, but that is not what you are saying now is it. No, you want everyone to believe it is all sorts of people conspiring against the American people, not just two.

So if it’s two, ok, I can buy that. If you think it is a lot more, than you are a whack job!

JTF,

“Why don’t you actually read what they have to say so you can make an educated comment.
Prediksi168 | Main Slot Online Bareng dan Pasti Gacor Disini ! not as funny when you can actually follow along with the script.”

Actually, I wasn’t referring to anything specific that you posted - just making a gag at the often source of all evil: PNAC.

“Dismissing this ‘garbage’ out of hand is blind faith in authority figures.”

No, it isn’t. As I said before, applying common sense to the analysis is not blindy following authority.

“Have you never heard of Enron? What they did amounted to some of the largest terrorist events in the world. You think Cheney and Bush are any different than Ken Lay? - being that they’re good friends and all.”

Please - I lived in Houston when Enron imploded. Ken Lay knew everyone - and Enron’s money went to both sides of the aisle. Moreover, it was Bush’s Justice Department that went after Lay, Fastow, etc. - “with friends like that,…”

Rogue accounting practices of the later 1990’s was the scourge of the time. WorldCom was a bigger fiasco - why aren’t you whining about them? Fact is, the problems were far and wide - Enron was a spectacular collapse, but trying to link them to authority figures has already been tried. Old news.

“All you have to do is look after every single terror event. Without FAIL they introduce legislation to restrict your rights and freedoms while throwing gobs of money at new security measures and military defense…”

Yeah, and here is where you would find common sense handy if you had any available. Of course they introduce legislation after the fact. The legislature is reactive - in the same way you would be in buying an alarm for your home after you got robbed one time. Human nature.

Moreover, it is not exactly novel to note that civil liberties aften get squeezed in wartime. But how have you specifically had your rights taken away? Not hypothetical, but realistically?

“…but guess what? We’ll get attacked a different way the next time because those new security measures won’t cover the next area of attack.”

Welcome to the real world, the non-utopia. Actually, I am not as cynical as you, I think we have done some to prevent attacks. But can we ever prevent them all? Nope. So stop whining because we haven’t achieved perfection.

“BTW, they’re actually taking care of that “8 year” limitation thing. I’m sure you knew that - blind faith and all.”

Legislation gets introduced for all kinds of stuff - and in this case, so what? I am sure there is a big list of pros and cons in going beyond a second term - but you don’t have the vision to see that, because you reflexively think that every move made by a lawmaker - no matter the issue - has a sinister motive of eventual world dominance. Frankly, I pity you.

“Actually I do my own research so I don’t get ‘fed’ anything - I analyze the data and draw my own conclusions.”

I seriously doubt you ‘analyze the data’ - more likely, you read what other people have already ‘analyzed’. You’re not using original material on which to base your opinions, and that is OK, just don’t pretend otherwise.

“YOU, on the other hand, put your complete trust in authority figures so it is YOU who believes anything that is fed to you.”

Wow, this is about as effective as the “I know you are but what am I” defense. I don’t have complete trust in authority figures - never have. That’s why I am such a keen advocate of separation of powers, federalism, and limited government.

“So who is it that tells you not to believe in wacky ‘conspiracy theories’? That’s just more tin-foil hat crap - don’t even waste your time looking at it.”

So what tells me to believe in them?

If the conspiracy nuts were getting it right and getting dangerously close to the truth, don’t you think the dark New World Order would have shut them down or snuffed out the voices by now?

“How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to power
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.”

Yeah - heard this howler before.

“Huh, your common sense has you still believing the single truck bomb theory in spite of hearing otherwise - you sure you didn’t get the horseshit by mistake? That’ll happen occasionally when you rely on blind faith to make a purchase.”

This ‘blind faith’ canard has run out of steam for you - you have no currency to level such a charge when you automatically and mindlessly assume that an authority figure is lying and a some half-educated internet surfer has discovered all the secrets the government doesn’t want you to know about everything ever.

And I ask the question again and again - if you truly believe all this, why are you still here? Personally, I would have left the country a long time ago if I thought even a fraction of your conspiracies were true.

Vroom,

“…but the fact the economy is hurting has no impact on the argument that the war is driven by profits.”

Which economy is that, exactly?

Thunder,

Why don’t you argue against the person making the claim… I’m just showing that it is meaningless anyway.

[quote]dblbass128 wrote:
That book sux, and so do you with your inability to debate my points.
[/quote]

If you had a point I would debate it. Al I see is a bunch of bullshit.

“Thank you, JTF! We all owe you a debt of gratitude for showing us how this evil cabal wants to take over our world. I know too: they work hand in hand with George W., who is really a secret reptile being from another world. All this can be documented at www.asksollog.com! My only question is: what do the reptile beings want with us?”
— Dale (aka Rusty Shackleford)