VMA's, Miley & Our Culture

Off Topic
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[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Most of your posting here has pretty much ignored the role of the parent. [/quote]

Not really. Although I’m having this conversation in 3 other places so I may be thinking I’ve made clear what I haven’t.

That said, these posts come from a parent that understands how things like this play into your child’s development, good bad or indifferent.

So while you see posts that “ignore the role of the parent”, I see posts that obviously don’t, because a parent that “didn’t know their role” wouldn’t be making them in the first place.

Think about it. If I didn’t give a fuck about my role, would I give a fuck about how the outside world plays into my kids development?

[quote] I realize parents can’t control everything their kids do, but I also know kids tend to emulate their parents quite a bit. If a parent spends a lot of time watching TV, talking about celebrities, etc, they probably will too. Just because I won’t be able to choose my kid’s strengths, weaknesses, or interests, doesn’t mean I can’t steer them towards some good options.

My parents had A LOT to do with the social circles I was in from a young age. Parents are essentially able to control completely who their kids hang out with outside of school. Parents are the ones with the car keys.[/quote]

Every kid is different, and you’ll be just as surprised as every other parent was to see how silly your best laid plans are once you’re in the thick of it.

The kid itself will dictate a lot of your actions and reactions.

Case in point, I was the opposite. I sought out the kids my parents didn’t want me hanging out with. [/quote]

I get what you’re saying, and I did the same after I turned 16, but during my first 15 years when I couldn’t drive, I had no access to the kids I wasn’t supposed to be hanging out with. Although this has to do with the fact that there weren’t really other kids in my neighborhood that went to my schools. Nobody really within walking/biking distance.

I also realize that actually being a parent is different from talking about being a parent. And if we’re going that route, I clearly don’t have a place in this conversation. I can only present my own perspective here, which is admittedly limited. I also don’t think you personally don’t give a fuck about your role as a parent, but I know there are plenty of parents out there who are doing a lot of things wrong that allow for the kids to get wrapped up in celebrity bullshit.

62

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Fuck Disney:

[quote]Disney was accused of a long association with pro-Nazi, Fritz Kuhn. Senior animator Art Babbitt at Disney studios from 1933-1951 accused Mr. Disney of this relationship. Mr. Babbitt notably did some of Disneyâ??s most enduring Characters “Goofy”. He claimed that Disney had outright sympathy for Kuhn. Babbitt made other accusations about Disney and his lawyer. He claimed that they attended several German American Bund meetings.

"In the immediate years before we entered the War there was a small, but fiercely loyal, I suppose legal, following of the Nazi party . . . There were open meetings, anybody could attend and I wanted to see what was going on myself. On more than one occasion I observed Walt Disney and [Disney’s lawyer] Gunther Lessing there, along with a lot of prominent Nazi-afflicted Hollywood personalities. Disney was going to meetings all the time.â??[/quote][/quote]

fuck ford in that case

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[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

Kids have been doing stupid shit forever. It has nothing to do with celebrities. At best, celebrity antics can inspire more specific behaviors, but even without our nutty celebrities, teenagers would be acting foolish.[/quote]

Correct.

But what kind of culture are we selling them?[/quote]

who is ‘we’?

you don’t have to buy everything that’s sold to you.[/quote]

Didn’t you a couple posts ago say this was a-okay because she was making money doing it?

So, yeah, we. [/quote]

I’ve never bought a Miley Cyrus album, seen Hannah Montana, and since I don’t have cable I’m not supporting MTV in any way. ‘We’ doesn’t include me in this context. The culture I sell to people is far removed from the topic at hand. So I don’t hold myself responsible for Miley’s success in any capacity.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:

I also realize that actually being a parent is different from talking about being a parent. And if we’re going that route, I clearly don’t have a place in this conversation. I can only present my own perspective here, which is admittedly limited. [/quote]

NOT trying to silence you thought this, just offering perspective.

Best advice I can give new parents is the more open your mind, the better off you’ll be.

65

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Isn’t this how parents responded when Elvis started gyrating on stage? [/quote]

Sure, and people called them stuffy old assholes.

Now we’re here.

Are we better off?

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(Please know a lot of my responses here are “devil’s advocate” type that is just trying to offer up a point of view for conversation’s sake. )

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

I’ve never bought a Miley Cyrus album, seen Hannah Montana, and since I don’t have cable I’m not supporting MTV in any way. ‘We’ doesn’t include me in this context. The culture I sell to people is far removed from the topic at hand. So I don’t hold myself responsible for Miley’s success in any capacity.[/quote]

But doesn’t being “okay” with it, which you were in that post, condone it? Which therefore supports it?

I’m not saying you should have a picket sign and walk around outside MTV studios complaining, but…

I mean look, there is porn and then there is teeny-bopper award shows. Is someone really a bad person/parent because they’d prefer the two be separate?

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  1. I think it is worth looking at the question Beans posted not from the angle of “Miley shouldn’t do this because she was affiliated with Disney” BUT “WOULD Miley have ever thought to do something like this had she not be indoctrinated into the teen Disney family”? Was she behaving as a normal young 20 something who just got a taste of freedom and unfortunately was caught on camera? Or, was a camera shoved in front of her and she was instructed how to act?

  2. For those of you intimating that Beans should be a better parent and keep his kid away from it… Disney owns the fucking world. So your kid doesn’t watch Disney, but does she listen to the radio? Disney plays the hell out of their young artists. Alright, so steer your child into sports. Just be careful because ESPN is owned by Disney as well and you WILL hear various teen artists coming back from commercial on Mike and Mike in the morning.

And how many of you heard about this story before it was posted here? Did you see pictures in reference to it? Were you watching Disney at the time? Perhaps your local news did a story and showed clips. And perhaps your daughter was eating her breakfast and watching the news with you this morning before her first day of school and saw those same clips. She’s 15, do you have a conversation with her about how inappropriate Miley’s actions were and how acting like a slut for attention is bad?

OK, how about the fact that she is 11. Do you have the conversation then? Hmmm. Actually she’ll be 9 in a week and a half. Do you think she is too young then? How about the fact that she is 6. Do you tell her why rubbing yourself with a giant finger on a national stage while a 36 year old man mock bangs you from behind does not reflect solid decision making skills? This shit is affecting your kids long before they are able to recognize and vocalize it and it creates a mine field of ridiculously awkward conversations you will have to have with your child at a much younger age than you ever thought necessary.

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[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

(guaranteed this will be discussed on Fox’s the Five tonight and atleast 3 out of the 5 people will find a way to blame liberalism and entitlement) [/quote]

They will blame the Contemporary American Liberal, which is almost a polar opposite of actual liberalism.

That said, I can do ti right now too if I wanted:

I blame all the smelly unshowered hippies in the sixties for this shit. I mean come on, what kind of rational person thinks siting around in a field all day listening to music will bring about some utopia that flies in the face of nature because government? Oh that is right, people who smoke fucking weed all day and drop acid like it is candy, that is who.

or

I blame the Frankfurt School and the wonderful leftist Critical Theory. Because without the deconstruction of social norms we would miss out on a flat asses confused child having simulated sex with a foam finger on an awards show aimed at the 12-18 year old demographic. THE HORROR!

It is actually pretty easy.

Best part is, once the show is over, or in response to my post someone will say “stop trying to legislate your religion, don’t shove your god morals down my throat.” And it is funny because I’m the least religious “conservative” you’ll meet.

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[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Isn’t this how parents responded when Elvis started gyrating on stage? [/quote]

Sure, and people called them stuffy old assholes.

Now we’re here.

Are we better off?[/quote]

I’m not sure if we are better or worse. More like different, imo.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
People watch the VMAs?[/quote]

x 100.

Who knew?

I don’t even know what channel MTV is anymore. Cause you know, I’m not a 15 year old girl.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
People watch the VMAs?[/quote]

x 100.

Who knew?

I don’t even know what channel MTV is anymore. Cause you know, I’m not a 15 year old girl. [/quote]

Lol, pretty much my exact thought.

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If Miley was hot, there would be way less debate about this.

I think everybody feels like they just watched a drunk, sloppy, 14 year old spring breaker grind on a 36 year old man in front of millions of people, and it didnt sit well.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
People watch the VMAs?[/quote]

x 100.

Who knew?

I don’t even know what channel MTV is anymore. Cause you know, I’m not a 15 year old girl. [/quote]

Lol, pretty much my exact thought. [/quote]

This kind of proves my point…

It matters.

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[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
People watch the VMAs?[/quote]

x 100.

Who knew?

I don’t even know what channel MTV is anymore. Cause you know, I’m not a 15 year old girl. [/quote]

Lol, pretty much my exact thought. [/quote]

This kind of proves my point…

It matters. [/quote]

How does it prove your point?

What was your point again?

Not being an asshole, just didn’t read the thread…

75

[quote]audiogarden1 wrote:
If Miley was hot, there would be way less debate about this.

I think everybody feels like they just watched a drunk, sloppy, 14 year old spring breaker grind on a 36 year old man in front of millions of people, and it didnt sit well. [/quote]

I guess twerking doesn’t work the glutes.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

How does it prove your point?

What was your point again?

Not being an asshole, just didn’t read the thread…[/quote]

In basic terms I guess my point is:

Is her behavior the product of being young, famous and forced to be a goody-goody because of her contract, or is her behavior just indicative of the world we live in? And if it is option 2, are we really okay that is the culture we sell our kids?

Your comment really actually fits perfect, and I’m glad you made it really. This show is marketed to tween and teen girls.

Sex, pretty much, is being sold to teenage girls.

Are we okay with that? And if so, at what point do we draw the line?

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Yea… I don’t care.

Nothing is different than it ever was. No more scandalous than Britney Spears making out with Madonna, or Madonna singing “Like a Virgin,” or Elvis shaking his hips on TV.

It comes down to parenting. If parents are there and normal, the kids have a better shot of turning out ok. If they’re not there, or don’t care, the daughter’s gonna be a whore no matter what she sees on TV.

Let me say once more though: I totally don’t care about this issue. This is something that every generation begins discussing as soon as they have kids, and nothing ever changes, so I’m not concerned.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea… I don’t care.

Nothing is different than it ever was. No more scandalous than Britney Spears making out with Madonna, or Madonna singing “Like a Virgin,” or Elvis shaking his hips on TV.

Let me say once more though: I totally don’t care about this issue. This is something that every generation begins discussing as soon as they have kids, and nothing ever changes, so I’m not concerned. [/quote]

Well, I would say that things certain change if simulated sex with a foam finger is now see as innocuous as Elvis shaking his hips…

How is progressively getting more and more provocative “noting ever changing”?

This literally makes a parent’s duty more difficult. Why are you, or anyone okay with that?

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The fact that this has become such an issues speaks more to the decline of culture than what she was actually doing on stage.

80

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea… I don’t care.

Nothing is different than it ever was. No more scandalous than Britney Spears making out with Madonna, or Madonna singing “Like a Virgin,” or Elvis shaking his hips on TV.

Let me say once more though: I totally don’t care about this issue. This is something that every generation begins discussing as soon as they have kids, and nothing ever changes, so I’m not concerned. [/quote]

Well, I would say that things certain change if simulated sex with a foam finger is now see as innocuous as Elvis shaking his hips…

How is progressively getting more and more provocative “noting ever changing”?

This literally makes a parent’s duty more difficult. Why are you, or anyone okay with that?[/quote]

It’s not progressively getting more provocative. Christ bro, go back and watch LL Cool J perform “Doin It” at the VMAs back in 96, or the Like A Virgin one from the 80s. It’s just done differently.

And parenting ain’t a cake walk. If you expected society or the world to make things easy on you as a parent, well, tough shit.

Back in 1820, you had to explain to your daughter why the Indians kicked your door in and scalped your mother in the street. In 1938 you had to explain to your daughter why her friends wouldn’t play with her anymore because she was a Jew. In 1968 you had to explain to your daughter why she couldn’t drink from the same water fountain as white folks.

Now, you have to explain why Miley Cyrus looks like the devil and is a shitty dancer.

Oh, poor you.

Poor, poor you.

Get over yourselves.