Vick Indicted!

For anyone who is as equally confused as I am after reading Vick�??s �??Confession�?? George Dohrman does a pretty good job explaining things here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/george_dohrmann/08/24/vick.plea/index.html

“Vick agrees that ‘Bad Newz Kennels’ business enterprise involved gambling activities in violation of the laws of the Commonwealth of Virginia … Most of the ‘Bad Newz Kennels’ operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick … Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds from the purses that were won by ‘Bad Newz Kennels.’”

One can read this as a clear admission that Vick bet on dogfighting. He put the money up. He lost money if his dogs lost. However, Vick says he didn’t win money if his dog won. Can one be a gambler if one never takes any winnings? Defenders of Vick could argue he was simply putting up money for his friends to gamble, that he was (if this is even possible) only half a gambler.

Whether or not he placed side bets could be viewed as irrelevant because betting on the dogs alone constitutes gambling. But I have no doubt Vick’s lawyers fought to get that line in the statement. It allows Vick to say he didn’t bet, to deny gambling, even if he did place bets of a different sort. It’s a seed of doubt for Vick supporters looking to sow a defense.
The most disturbing allegation against Vick is that he participated in the killing of dogs. In the statement of facts filed by co-defendants (and Vick friends) Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips, they said Vick helped them kill dogs last April. But in Vick’s statement, it is not that clear. It states, “Peace, Phillips, and Vick agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in ‘testing’ sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick.”

Given the earlier statements by Peace and Phillips, which both included the straightforward line, “All three participated in executing the dogs,” it would seem Vick’s statement of fact confirms that. But what does it mean that Vick stipulates the dogs died “as a result of the collective efforts?” Does that mean Vick merely handed a rope to Peace and Phillips? Does he mean he only turned on the hose that filled the tub the dogs were drowned in? Or, does it mean he slipped a noose around a dog’s neck or held its head under water?

The goal of Vick’s legal team is to distinguish his actions from the other co-defendants, to prove he was not involved in the same gritty way as Peace, Phillips and Tony Taylor.
“Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge [Henry Hudson] understand all the facts and Michael’s role,” Vick’s lead defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview with the Associated Press.

“Michael’s role was different than others associated with this incident.”
That may or may not be true. But Martin and his team have managed to enter into the record a statement of facts that includes less facts than Vick’s critics wanted, that leaves the totality of Vick’s role in the doings of Bad Newz Kennels unknown. As a result, while Vick’s guilt is no longer in question, his level of guilt remains subject to your own interpretation.


Please check out this man�??s myspace page. If you love bull terriers this is a gold mine.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I have been unable to answer one question Stephon Maubury posed. How come Vick is now a violent sociopath, but they show people executing Deer on ESPN every Sunday Morning?

One is a way to put food on the plate, and the other is a sadistic and blatant disregard for life. If you have to entertain which is which and why for too long, don’t bother. Thought like that is useless for some folks.

JokerFm Skyzyks,
Are you guys seriuos? Sport Hunting on ESPN On sunday Morning is for food? for Starving people? and Humane? Heres a quote about sports hunting from some hunting website

“Anyone who still thinks big-game hunting is exclusively an outdoors gentlemen’s club needs to think again. Women make up one of the fastest-growing segments of the community of hunting and shooting enthusiasts.”

Its Humane when they miss and hit the bucktail in the thigh and it goes running off with 3 legs for the rest of its life?

As far as dog fighting goes, Joker it is highly Organized and international. They do have local knuckleheads’s who do it, but Vick’s Camp was traveling from Virginia to New Jersey so I think its safe to assume they were part of a bigger group.

Mike;
I think everybody knows Vick was dog fighting back in 2001 and before, the big thing about the case was that he continued to do it at a point in his life when he should have known better. Guess I understand why Vick and marcus are so bad when looking at their father.
[/quote]

Well I didn’t say anything about it being for food, but I did say that the deers would starve to death if they weren’t hunted. Also, hunters contribute billions of dollars annually to conservation of natural habitats for animals. Do dog fighters do this?

VICK WILL NOW BECOME AN INFORMANT!!!

The plea agreement is 11 pages long, the summary of facts another 10. But the endgame for Michael Vick can be reduced to one simple goal: Stay out of prison, no matter what the cost.
According to federal documents, Vick will cooperate in full with federal prosecutors to tell them everything he knows. To save his hide, he becomes an informant.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txvickpay&prov=st&type=lgns

Report: Vick to lose over $100 million

August 25, 2007
ATLANTA (Ticker) - Michael Vick could lose over $100 million in salary and endorsements after pleading guilty to federal dogfighting charges, according to a report.
Citing estimates from the University of Oregon’s Warsaw Sports Marketing Center, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported the total cost for Vick could reach almost $150 million.
If the Atlanta Falcons terminate the quarterback’s contract - a 10-year $130 million deal signed in 2005 - he will lose $71 million. Legal experts say the team has the right to terminate Vick. The Falcons could also sue Vick to try and recover some of the $37 million already paid to Vick in bonuses.

Lost endorsements could top $50 million. On Friday, Nike reacted to Vick’s guilty plea by terminating his endorsement contract with the company.

On top of that, Vick is facing heavy legal bills and a possible fine of up to $250,000, which will come on top of any jail term

It is now official, Vick has plead guilty:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/27/bc.fbn.vick.plea.ap/index.html

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) – Standing erect and answering questions with soft, short responses, NFL star Michael Vick pleaded guilty Monday to a federal dogfighting charge and awaited a Dec. 10 sentencing date that could send him to prison.
The plea by the suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback was accepted by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who asked: “Are you entering the plea of guilty to a conspiracy charge because you are in fact guilty?”

Vick replied, “Yes, sir.”
Hudson emphasized during the 15-minute hearing he is not bound by sentencing guidelines or the recommendations of prosecutors and can impose the maximum sentence of up to five years in prison. Prosecutors proposed a 12- to 18-month prison term.

“You’re taking your chances here. You’ll have to live with whatever decision I make,” Hudson.
PERSONAL COMMENT:

I don�??t know why the judge put that last comment in. I don�??t know if that is protocol or if he is giving Vick a warning as to what is to come.

We will see in December when Vick is sentenced.

Vick will now learn the prison equivalent of ‘Pet the Puppy’.

Here is a story about the Vick speech after his hearing:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/27/bc.fbn.vick.plea.ap/index.html
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) – First, Michael Vick apologized to all the people he lied to. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank. Coach Bobby Petrino. His teammates.
“I was not honest and forthright in our discussions,” the star quarterback said Monday, somber and deliberate and not speaking from notes.
Then he apologized to “all the young kids out there for my immature acts.”
“I need to grow up,” he added.
And so began a public act of contrition from Vick, who pleaded guilty to a federal dogfighting charge and then stood behind a podium to say his job now was “bettering Michael Vick the person, not the football player.”
There he was, a QB so deft and nimble he pulled off any number of amazing scrambles on the field. Now he was scrambling to save himself and his football future because of his role in a gruesome dogfighting ring.
Saying he was speaking “from the heart,” Vick said he took full responsibility for his actions.
“Dogfighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it,” he said.
Acceptance of responsibility is one of the factors U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson will consider in handing down Vick’s sentence Dec. 10. The federal sentencing guideline range is projected at a year to 18 months, but Hudson can impose up to the five-year maximum�?�.
Vick was suspended indefinitely by the NFL after his written plea agreement was filed in court Friday.
“So I got a lot of down time, a lot of time to think about my actions and what I’ve done and how to make Michael Vick a better person,” said Vick, who grew up in Newport News.
“I will redeem myself. I have to,” he vowed.

Here is the actual text of vick�??s post hearing apology:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/27/bc.fbn.vick.plea.text.ap/index.html

For most of my life, I’ve been a football player, not a public speaker, so, you know, I really don’t know, you know, how to say what I really want to say.
You know, I understand it’s – it’s important or not important, you know, as far as what you say but how you say things. So, you know, I take this opportunity just to speak from the heart.
First, I want to apologize, you know, for all the things that – that I’ve done and that I have allowed to happen. I want to personally apologize to commissioner Goodell, Arthur Blank, coach Bobby Petrino, my Atlanta Falcons teammates, you know, for our – for our previous discussions that we had. And I was not honest and forthright in our discussions, and, you know, I was ashamed and totally disappointed in myself to say the least.
I want to apologize to all the young kids out there for my immature acts and, you know, what I did was, what I did was very immature so that means I need to grow up.
I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to bettering Michael Vick the person, not the football player.
I take full responsibility for my actions. For one second will I sit right here – not for one second will I sit right here and point the finger and try to blame anybody else for my actions or what I’ve done.
I’m totally responsible, and those things just didn’t have to happen. I feel like we all make mistakes. It’s just I made a mistake in using bad judgment and making bad decisions. And you know, those things, you know, just can’t happen.
Dog fighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it.
I’m upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that’s the right thing to do as of right now.
Like I said, for this – for this entire situation I never pointed the finger at anybody else, I accepted responsibility for my actions of what I did and now I have to pay the consequences for it. But in a sense, I think it will help, you know, me as a person. I got a lot to think about in the next year or so.
I offer my deepest apologies to everybody out in there in the world who was affected by this whole situation. And if I’m more disappointed with myself than anything it’s because of all the young people, young kids that I’ve let down, who look at Michael Vick as a role model. And to have to go through this and put myself in this situation, you know, I hope that every young kid out there in the world watching this interview right now who’s been following the case will use me as an example to using better judgment and making better decisions.
Once again, I offer my deepest apologies to everyone. And I will redeem myself. I have to.
So I got a lot of down time, a lot of time to think about my actions and what I’ve done and how to make Michael Vick a better person.
Thank you."

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
Here is the actual text of vick�??s post hearing apology:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/27/bc.fbn.vick.plea.text.ap/index.html

For most of my life, I’ve been a football player, not a public speaker, so, you know, I really don’t know, you know, how to say what I really want to say.
You know, I understand it’s – it’s important or not important, you know, as far as what you say but how you say things. So, you know, I take this opportunity just to speak from the heart.
First, I want to apologize, you know, for all the things that – that I’ve done and that I have allowed to happen. I want to personally apologize to commissioner Goodell, Arthur Blank, coach Bobby Petrino, my Atlanta Falcons teammates, you know, for our – for our previous discussions that we had. And I was not honest and forthright in our discussions, and, you know, I was ashamed and totally disappointed in myself to say the least.
I want to apologize to all the young kids out there for my immature acts and, you know, what I did was, what I did was very immature so that means I need to grow up.
I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to bettering Michael Vick the person, not the football player.
I take full responsibility for my actions. For one second will I sit right here – not for one second will I sit right here and point the finger and try to blame anybody else for my actions or what I’ve done.
I’m totally responsible, and those things just didn’t have to happen. I feel like we all make mistakes. It’s just I made a mistake in using bad judgment and making bad decisions. And you know, those things, you know, just can’t happen.
Dog fighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it.
I’m upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that’s the right thing to do as of right now.
Like I said, for this – for this entire situation I never pointed the finger at anybody else, I accepted responsibility for my actions of what I did and now I have to pay the consequences for it. But in a sense, I think it will help, you know, me as a person. I got a lot to think about in the next year or so.
I offer my deepest apologies to everybody out in there in the world who was affected by this whole situation. And if I’m more disappointed with myself than anything it’s because of all the young people, young kids that I’ve let down, who look at Michael Vick as a role model. And to have to go through this and put myself in this situation, you know, I hope that every young kid out there in the world watching this interview right now who’s been following the case will use me as an example to using better judgment and making better decisions.
Once again, I offer my deepest apologies to everyone. And I will redeem myself. I have to.
So I got a lot of down time, a lot of time to think about my actions and what I’ve done and how to make Michael Vick a better person.
Thank you."

[/quote]

Damn De sleeplijn hates people who refer to themselves in, you know, the third person.

[quote]De sleeplijn wrote:
MikeShank wrote:
Here is the actual text of vick�??s post hearing apology:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/27/bc.fbn.vick.plea.text.ap/index.html

For most of my life, I’ve been a football player, not a public speaker, so, you know, I really don’t know, you know, how to say what I really want to say.
You know, I understand it’s – it’s important or not important, you know, as far as what you say but how you say things. So, you know, I take this opportunity just to speak from the heart.
First, I want to apologize, you know, for all the things that – that I’ve done and that I have allowed to happen. I want to personally apologize to commissioner Goodell, Arthur Blank, coach Bobby Petrino, my Atlanta Falcons teammates, you know, for our – for our previous discussions that we had. And I was not honest and forthright in our discussions, and, you know, I was ashamed and totally disappointed in myself to say the least.
I want to apologize to all the young kids out there for my immature acts and, you know, what I did was, what I did was very immature so that means I need to grow up.
I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to bettering Michael Vick the person, not the football player.
I take full responsibility for my actions. For one second will I sit right here – not for one second will I sit right here and point the finger and try to blame anybody else for my actions or what I’ve done.
I’m totally responsible, and those things just didn’t have to happen. I feel like we all make mistakes. It’s just I made a mistake in using bad judgment and making bad decisions. And you know, those things, you know, just can’t happen.
Dog fighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it.
I’m upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that’s the right thing to do as of right now.
Like I said, for this – for this entire situation I never pointed the finger at anybody else, I accepted responsibility for my actions of what I did and now I have to pay the consequences for it. But in a sense, I think it will help, you know, me as a person. I got a lot to think about in the next year or so.
I offer my deepest apologies to everybody out in there in the world who was affected by this whole situation. And if I’m more disappointed with myself than anything it’s because of all the young people, young kids that I’ve let down, who look at Michael Vick as a role model. And to have to go through this and put myself in this situation, you know, I hope that every young kid out there in the world watching this interview right now who’s been following the case will use me as an example to using better judgment and making better decisions.
Once again, I offer my deepest apologies to everyone. And I will redeem myself. I have to.
So I got a lot of down time, a lot of time to think about my actions and what I’ve done and how to make Michael Vick a better person.
Thank you."

Damn De sleeplijn hates people who refer to themselves in, you know, the third person.
[/quote]

Hey De sleeplijn,

I believe the exact phrase is know as illeism:

Illeism is the act of referring to oneself in the third person. Here is a list of some other famous illeist’s:

�?�Julius Caesar, the first and perhaps best-known illeist, in The Gallic War.
�?�Norman Mailer refers to himself in the third person throughout The Fight, explaining why he has chosen to do so at the beginning of the book.[1]
�?�Elmo from Sesame Street refers to himself in the third person. In response to the challenge that this will not teach children proper English usage, the Sesame Workshop states that this behaviour “mimics the behavior of many preschoolers”.[2]
�?�Some Biblical scholars believe that Jesus Christ refers to himself in the third person (as the “Son of Man”) through much of the Gospels.[3] (This interpretation of that phrase is disputed. See son of man for a full discussion.)
-During the 1996 United States presidential election campaign Bob Dole frequently referred to himself in the
-H. G. Wells refers to himself as “The Writer” in the preface to The Time Machine.[4]
-Former WWE wrestler, The Rock, always referred to himself in third person during his wrestling career.
-Geraldo Rivera is a very well known illeist.
-Duffman, Gil, Groundskeeper Willie and Disco Stu from The Simpsons all refer to themselves in the third person.
-Baseball’s all-time record holder for stolen bases, Rickey Henderson, often refers to himself in third person; in his 2002 stand-up album, “Shut Up You Fucking Baby”, comedian David Cross expounds for a length of time on Henderson’s illeist habits.
-Former NBA star Karl Malone often referred to himself in the third person during interviews.
-The supervillain Dr. Doom is famous for almost always referring to himself in the third person (one of the few exceptions being when he introduces himself with the line “I am Doom.”) This trait has been mocked by
-Boxers Roy Jones, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather[disambiguation needed] occasionally lapse into illeism.
-Stalin often referred to himself as “us”, “we” or “Stalin”.
-John Smith, famous for helping settle Jamestown colony,

You know who has always been my favorite illeist, Anthony Starke who played Jimmy on Seinfeld!

Here is his crappy website and here is his reference on Wikipedia

In episode #105 of the hit television show Seinfeld, titled “The Jimmy”, the title character Jimmy (played by Anthony Starke) only refers to himself in third person, causing some confusion. Later episodes would occasionally feature George doing the same


HAS VICK FOUND JESUS FOR REAL?

I have seen references to this recently but doesn anybody have anything concrete?

Why is it that people only find Jesus when things go to shit? Why doesn’t anybody find Jesus when they are on top of the world knee deep in cash and hookers?


http://video.sionnbcsports.com/player/?id=148224

Costas and peter king discuss where the Falcons stand as far as getting their $22 million back. It is a very informed discussion with some great details about this situation.

http://video.sionnbcsports.com/player/?id=148224#videoid=143038

Costas, Collingsworth and Bettis discuss how this will affects the Falcons

This is from Michael McCann from SI. It goes into more details about the Vick aftermath. I found this second question very interesting:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_mccann/08/27/vick.qa/index.html
2. What can we expect when Judge Hudson sentences Vick on Dec. 10?
Vick faces up to five years in federal prison. Conceivably, Judge Hudson – who grimly admonished Vick, “You’re taking your chances here. You’ll have to live with whatever decision I make” – could impose such a sentence. Moreover, Vick’s involvement with the horrific treatment of dogs clearly works against him, as judges are like any of us: we are outraged by the outrageous.
But there are several factors weighing in Vick’s favor as Judge Hudson contemplates his sentence. Most important, prosecutors recommend that Vick serve between 12 and 18 months in prison, a significantly lower figure than the possible maximum of 60 months. Although judges occasionally impose a harsher sentence than prosecutors recommend, they typically do not.
Vick also puts himself in better company as a first-time offender. Generally, repeat offenders receive harsher sentences, under the basic idea that the defendant didn’t learn his lesson the first time. Such a concern is not present with a first-time offender like Vick. Amplifying that point are comments by U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg, who acknowledged in a statement today that “a first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense.”
Vick’s unmistakable expressions of contrition, shame, and remorse also work in his favor. While their genuineness may be questioned, his comments today were among the most apologetic remarks ever heard by a professional athlete. Nevertheless, given what Vick claims to be sorry for, Judge Hudson will almost certainly not feel good about Vick at any point while he deliberates his sentence. But the goal of a defendant’s expressed contrition is usually sentence mitigation, rather than sentence elimination. Indeed, to the extent he found Vick sincere, Judge Hudson may be somewhat swayed by Vick’s remarks.
Along the lines of his remarks, Vick’s very decision to plead guilty should aid him. While, as noted above, a guilty plea can be interpreted as an expression of guilt or merely one of defeat, judges generally consider a guilty plea to be a sign that a defendant already understands his need for correction and is more malleable to immediate improvement while incarcerated


Really? You really want to apologize Mike?

IMO, you’ll have to do better and learn to speak properly.

MS Word found the following words and number of times they appear:

‘you know’ x 14
‘apologize’ x 3
‘responsibility’ x 2
‘sorry’ x 0

So what are you really trying to say? I just don’t know.
Are you sorry or not? If so, what are you sorry for?
Sorry that you got caught?
Sorry that you were suspended indefinitely?
Sorry to loose millions in salary and endorsements?

What’s up with this latest Dog Training Video? Is it real?

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/edffdbe5d6

Fellow T-Nation members, in your opinion what would it take for Mike VD to redeem him self to the public?

Win a championship, and League MVP. Sports Trumps everything except gambling.

Thanks for the video that was hilarious

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Win a championship, and League MVP. [/quote]

HA! So true. That would be the ‘Ray Lewis’ affect. Note to Mike Vick: Must. get. ring.

As he is waiting for sentencing, he is clearly at the bottom of all bottoms. For him to make it back to the apex of sport would be something even the most hardened critic would have to give a nod to.

[quote]MikeShank wrote:

Hey De sleeplijn,

I believe the exact phrase is know as illeism:
[/quote]

I’m impressed with the info. I usually rate anyone who refers to themselves in the third person as a complete tool. I’m sure my judgement is not too far off with Vick.

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
HAS VICK FOUND JESUS FOR REAL?

I have seen references to this recently but doesn anybody have anything concrete?

Why is it that people only find Jesus when things go to shit? Why doesn’t anybody find Jesus when they are on top of the world knee deep in cash and hookers?[/quote]

It’s the same as Michelle Leslie. She was this Aussie model that got caught with ecstasy over in Bali. Those fuckers don’t like finding westerners with drugs so she was looking at a 3 years in the clink which is worth probably 20 in any western jail.

Anyhoo, throughout the case she found Allah and donned the rag on the head and became a devotee to Islam. She basically got off with nothing and sure enough, the second she lands in Australia she’s strutting around in the skimpy clothes and rag head nowhere to be seen. I don’t blame her but it doesn’t say much about your personal character.

Attached is the photo of her during the trial.


And take 2. After the trial, dressing a little different to your average Muslim. Notice the possible alcohol in hand too.