[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
Because people (again, in the general sense) are selfish and never blame fault on themself.[/quote]
That is so true.
The kingpin’s loyalty is not always to take the blame, it is to run the empire most efficiently. His boyz would be stupid if they expected Vick to take the blame and hope his lawyers could win the case. In the FBI and public’s mind someone HAD to go down for this, one of his boyz should’ve just told Vick you give me some money and I’ll take full brunt of the charges.
I still believe while Vick may have been the bank roll he was not the kingpin of this operation, which is why his boyz flipped on him. I’m sure one of the last 2 co-defendants was probably in charge of everything.
Guess What Michael Vick?
Canadian Football League doesn’t wan’t your sorry ass either.
“A CFL spokesman reiterated Tuesday that a league rule instituted last spring bans any CFL team from signing a player under suspension in another league. That rule came about when the Toronto Argonauts signed Ricky Williams, who was suspended by the NFL for repeated violations of the league’s substance-abuse policy”.
We’ll still sell you our Righteous BC Bud, at premium prices though because you’ve lost your Canadian priviledges.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
The kingpin’s loyalty is not always to take the blame, it is to run the empire most efficiently. His boyz would be stupid if they expected Vick to take the blame and hope his lawyers could win the case. In the FBI and public’s mind someone HAD to go down for this, one of his boyz should’ve just told Vick you give me some money and I’ll take full brunt of the charges.
I still believe while Vick may have been the bank roll he was not the kingpin of this operation, which is why his boyz flipped on him. I’m sure one of the last 2 co-defendants was probably in charge of everything.
[/quote]
A kingpin of a underground dog fighting league? I don’t think it’s organized, especially from the way the indictment read.
And I have to disagree completely with your first paragraph, also. There’s no amount of money someone could pay me to spend 2+ years in a federal prison.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/22/bc.fbn.vick.naacp.ap/index.html
The ATLANTA chapter of the NAACP has weighed in on the plea. You can read for yourself, but here is an exerpt:
“As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football,” said R.L. White, president of the NAACP’s Atlanta chapter. “We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country.”
White said the Falcons quarterback is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.
PERSONAL OPINION:
Mike Vick doesn’t deserve anything. He must earn a second chance just like everybody else. What will he have to do in order to earn that? Who the hell knows but it better be more sincere than what he is saying now.
My feelings on the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP…whatever happened to personal responsibility. If these ass clowns are supposed to be the leaders of the black community in Atlanta then those people are in trouble.
Pathetic.
[quote]MikeShank wrote:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/22/bc.fbn.vick.naacp.ap/index.html
The ATLANTA chapter of the NAACP has weighed in on the plea. You can read for yourself, but here is an exerpt:
“As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football,” said R.L. White, president of the NAACP’s Atlanta chapter. “We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country.”
White said the Falcons quarterback is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.
PERSONAL OPINION:
Mike Vick doesn’t deserve anything. He must earn a second chance just like everybody else. What will he have to do in order to earn that? Who the hell knows but it better be more sincere than what he is saying now.
My feelings on the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP…whatever happened to personal responsibility. If these ass clowns are supposed to be the leaders of the black community in Atlanta then those people are in trouble.
Pathetic.
[/quote]
Although I’m not as passionate about the cause as much as you are MikeShank, I whole heartedly agree with you on this.
The society doesn’t owe shit to Micheal Vick, Michael Vick owes to the society.
But it’s a strange world we live in, if NAACP’s Atlanta chapter can name Mr. White its president, I hope that we too can find it in our hearts to forgive Michael Vick, under the right circumstances though. I want to believe in a positive outcome to this whole story.
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
There’s no amount of money someone could pay me to spend 2+ years in a federal prison.[/quote]
I agree with that, but someone should tell Greg Anderson, Barry Bond’s trainer.
[quote]JokerFMJ wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
The kingpin’s loyalty is not always to take the blame, it is to run the empire most efficiently. His boyz would be stupid if they expected Vick to take the blame and hope his lawyers could win the case. In the FBI and public’s mind someone HAD to go down for this, one of his boyz should’ve just told Vick you give me some money and I’ll take full brunt of the charges.
I still believe while Vick may have been the bank roll he was not the kingpin of this operation, which is why his boyz flipped on him. I’m sure one of the last 2 co-defendants was probably in charge of everything.
A kingpin of a underground dog fighting league? I don’t think it’s organized, especially from the way the indictment read.
And I have to disagree completely with your first paragraph, also. There’s no amount of money someone could pay me to spend 2+ years in a federal prison.[/quote]
No organization? Theres no way an illegal dog fighting operation would operate for 8 years without organization. Someone had to have the idea, get the house, have it built to breed dog, and train, and kill the dogs.
Let’s not forget promoting the dogs, traveling across states to fight them. People who are into it are seriuos, have them running on treadmills, some inject steroids, and pulling weights training like humans.
It’s way more than having a dog and saying mine can beat yours. Vick did not live at that house so when he’s home in atlanta somebody had to feed the dogs train them and fight them, and Breeding a dog is not overnight.
You may not go to jail for 2+ years for money, but I would if I was going to Jail 6 months anyway. Besides the fact that if all 3 of them plead guilty and claimed Vick had nothing to do with it, they would probably get the same sentence they are now.
The only difference would be they would have a little bit more money in the bank when they get out. Now when they get out they have no job, no money, and no reason for Vick to help them out, because they ratted anyway.
I have been unable to answer one question Stephon Maubury posed. How come Vick is now a violent sociopath, but they show people executing Deer on ESPN every Sunday Morning?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
The kingpin’s loyalty is not always to take the blame, it is to run the empire most efficiently. His boyz would be stupid if they expected Vick to take the blame and hope his lawyers could win the case. In the FBI and public’s mind someone HAD to go down for this, one of his boyz should’ve just told Vick you give me some money and I’ll take full brunt of the charges.
I still believe while Vick may have been the bank roll he was not the kingpin of this operation, which is why his boyz flipped on him. I’m sure one of the last 2 co-defendants was probably in charge of everything.
[/quote]
What is the difference between bankroll and kingpin though? Lets just say that within this small organization he has a few workers, one of whom is in charge of the general operation. That one, or one that he is in charge of screws up and costs them money or loss of some sort. The bankroll is going to have some serious questions for the kingpin to answer, and he better have some good answers or it’s going to cost him a lot more than money. The alternative to this is to flip on your boss. This is when and why the dominos start falling up-hill.
The bankroll is allways the kingpin in small criminal organizations, and lets face it, this was a bunch of thugs, not some polyhedral, multi-national crime syndicate.
Also, at the root of most criminal behavior is the thought-“I’m gonna get mine”, whether it’s money, drugs, or deals from the prosecution. When his underlings saw deals on sentencing being handed out, you can damn well bet that they were thinking “I’m gonna get mine.”.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I have been unable to answer one question Stephon Maubury posed. How come Vick is now a violent sociopath, but they show people executing Deer on ESPN every Sunday Morning?[/quote]
One is a way to put food on the plate, and the other is a sadistic and blatant disregard for life. If you have to entertain which is which and why for too long, don’t bother. Thought like that is useless for some folks.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
JokerFMJ wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
if all 3 of them plead guilty and claimed Vick had nothing to do with it, they would probably get the same sentence they are now.
[/quote]
No. The deal they got requires them to testify against Vick. That’s the way these plea deals work. The defendants get a lighter sentence for giving the prosecutors what they want.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I have been unable to answer one question Stephon Maubury posed. How come Vick is now a violent sociopath, but they show people executing Deer on ESPN every Sunday Morning?
One is a way to put food on the plate, and the other is a sadistic and blatant disregard for life. If you have to entertain which is which and why for too long, don’t bother. Thought like that is useless for some folks.
[/quote]
I’m not on the other side of the argument from you, but, I hate that argument. Hardly anybody hunts to put food on the table. They hunt for fun. Mostly guys who hunt just enjoy being out in the woods with the fellas, but that sounds gay. So, they pick up guns, kill Bambi, and then they feel manly.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
JokerFMJ wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
The kingpin’s loyalty is not always to take the blame, it is to run the empire most efficiently. His boyz would be stupid if they expected Vick to take the blame and hope his lawyers could win the case. In the FBI and public’s mind someone HAD to go down for this, one of his boyz should’ve just told Vick you give me some money and I’ll take full brunt of the charges.
I still believe while Vick may have been the bank roll he was not the kingpin of this operation, which is why his boyz flipped on him. I’m sure one of the last 2 co-defendants was probably in charge of everything.
A kingpin of a underground dog fighting league? I don’t think it’s organized, especially from the way the indictment read.
And I have to disagree completely with your first paragraph, also. There’s no amount of money someone could pay me to spend 2+ years in a federal prison.
No organization? Theres no way an illegal dog fighting operation would operate for 8 years without organization. Someone had to have the idea, get the house, have it built to breed dog, and train, and kill the dogs.
Let’s not forget promoting the dogs, traveling across states to fight them. People who are into it are seriuos, have them running on treadmills, some inject steroids, and pulling weights training like humans.
It’s way more than having a dog and saying mine can beat yours. Vick did not live at that house so when he’s home in atlanta somebody had to feed the dogs train them and fight them, and Breeding a dog is not overnight.
You may not go to jail for 2+ years for money, but I would if I was going to Jail 6 months anyway. Besides the fact that if all 3 of them plead guilty and claimed Vick had nothing to do with it, they would probably get the same sentence they are now.
The only difference would be they would have a little bit more money in the bank when they get out. Now when they get out they have no job, no money, and no reason for Vick to help them out, because they ratted anyway.
I have been unable to answer one question Stephon Maubury posed. How come Vick is now a violent sociopath, but they show people executing Deer on ESPN every Sunday Morning?[/quote]
By executing do you mean hunting? If so, that’s totally different. If deer aren’t hunted in those areas they will starve to death (did Vick starve anything? Or did he just drown them, beat them and electroctute them all?). There’s a difference between torturing and killing animals, also, which is the main factor in it.
Also, by organization I didn’t mean being organized, I meant Organization as in a league (such as the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, MLS, etc…).
With Vick�??s official plea to come Monday, all types of interesting news is starting to pop up.
Here a story about a woman who is also a card collector who gave up all her Vick cards to her dogs to chew up. They are on bid on ebay and are currently selling for higher than the same cards in mint condition.
All proceeds from the auction are going to the humane society:
Vicks new job:
Vicks Dad Speaks out?
Reports: Vick’s father says he asked Falcons star to stop dogfighting
August 24, 2007
ATLANTA (AP) – Michael Vick’s father said he asked his son to give up dogfighting, or to at least put property used in the venture in the names of others to avoid being implicated, according to a report in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Also Thursday night, a report on ESPN.com cited an unidentified ESPN source saying Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dogfights when he enters a guilty plea in a Richmond, Va., federal court Monday.
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ESPN reported that Vick’s defense team met with federal attorneys Thursday afternoon to determine the “summary of facts” to which Vick will plead. But ESPN’s source said Vick maintains he never killed dogs and never gambled on a dog fight. The source told ESPN the Atlanta Falcons quarterback will plead guilty to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.
On Monday, Vick agreed to plead guilty Monday in the federal dogfighting case in Richmond. He faces up to five years in prison and the possible end of his football career. Three co-defendants already pleaded guilty and were expected to testify against Vick if the case went to trial. In addition, a Virginia prosecutor is considering bringing state charges against Vick.
In The Journal-Constitution report posted on the newspaper’s Web site Thursday night, Michael Boddie, who is estranged from Vick and the quarterback’s mother, also said some time around 2001 his son staged dogfights in the garage of the family home in Newport News, Va.
Boddie told the newspaper Vick kept fighting dogs in the family’s backyard, including dogs that were “bit up, chewed up, exhausted.” Boddie claimed to have nursed the dogs back to health.
The indictment against Vick does not mention the parents’ former home in Newport News.
In the report, Boddie dismissed the idea that Vick’s longtime friends were the main instigators of the dogfighting operation.
“I wish people would stop sugarcoating it,” Boddie told The Journal-Constitution. “This is Mike’s thing. And he knows it … likes it, and he has the capital to have a set up like that.”
The report said Boddie and the Atlanta Falcons quarterback have had a volatile relationship for years and that his son has refused to speak with him directly for the last 2 1/2 half months.
Boddie, 45, lives in an apartment his son has paid the rent on for the last three years. Vick, who has a $130 million contract with the Falcons, also gives him a couple of hundred dollars every week or two, the father told the newspaper.
In the report, Boddie also said he asked Vick for $1 million, spread out over 12 years, Vick declined, the father said. Recently, Boddie asked Vick, through an assistant, for $700,000 to live on.
PERSONAL OPINION:
I can�??t stand mike vick but I find this kinda shady. He hasn�??t talked to this guy (his �??dad�??) for years. His son pays for his apartment rent and gives him some money every week. I guess that�??s fine but then the part where he asked him for a million dollars rubbed me the wrong way. Still, he claims that his son would fight dogs in the family�??s yard. If this is true then it just goes to support my feeling that Vick is just a scumbag.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/08/24/bc.fbn.michaelvick.ap/index.html
I have been away from this thread for a couple of hours, so I don�??t know where we are at with this but according to this link, Vick is supposedly saying that he DID NOT GAMBLE ONLY THAT HE KILLED DOGS.
Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said.
The statement said that when the kennel’s dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick’s three co-defendants – Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.
“Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels,” the summary said.
“Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick.”
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
I have been unable to answer one question Stephon Maubury posed. How come Vick is now a violent sociopath, but they show people executing Deer on ESPN every Sunday Morning?
One is a way to put food on the plate, and the other is a sadistic and blatant disregard for life. If you have to entertain which is which and why for too long, don’t bother. Thought like that is useless for some folks.
[/quote]
JokerFm Skyzyks,
Are you guys seriuos? Sport Hunting on ESPN On sunday Morning is for food? for Starving people? and Humane? Heres a quote about sports hunting from some hunting website
“Anyone who still thinks big-game hunting is exclusively an outdoors gentlemen’s club needs to think again. Women make up one of the fastest-growing segments of the community of hunting and shooting enthusiasts.”
Its Humane when they miss and hit the bucktail in the thigh and it goes running off with 3 legs for the rest of its life?
As far as dog fighting goes, Joker it is highly Organized and international. They do have local knuckleheads’s who do it, but Vick’s Camp was traveling from Virginia to New Jersey so I think its safe to assume they were part of a bigger group.
Mike;
I think everybody knows Vick was dog fighting back in 2001 and before, the big thing about the case was that he continued to do it at a point in his life when he should have known better. Guess I understand why Vick and marcus are so bad when looking at their father.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-michaelvick&prov=ap&type=lgns
VICK SUSPENDED BY NFL INDEFINATELY WITHOUT PAY.
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) – The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.
Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.
In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick’s admitted conduct was “not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible” and regardless whether he personally placed bets, “your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.”
While Mr. Vick is not personally charged with or responsible for committing all of the acts alleged in the indictment, as with any conspiracy charge, he is taking full responsibility for his actions and the actions of the others involved," the defense team said in a written statement after the plea agreement.
“Mr. Vick apologizes for his poor judgment in associating himself with those involved in dog fighting and realizes he should never have been involved in this conduct,” the statement said.
Seems as though Vick already trying to position himself for a trip back to the NFL. I think if he figures he can beat the gambling rap, he will have found a way to loopholr his way out of a lifetime suspension.
Based on his quote, Goodell doesn�??t seem to want to give him that loophole. Only time will tell how this plays out.
This link is from CNN and talks about the grim future that the Vick dogs face. Basically, they don�??t have one.
If Vick wants to show how sorry he is and how he is taking responsibility for his actions than he should pay the humane society are large sum of money to allow the care of these dogs of his to live out the rest of their natural lives. He should take his house in Virginia and make it an animal sanctuary for these dogs.
As an update, the deadline has passed for these animals. Sadly enough, it seems good intentions are wrong.
Officials and animal rights advocates agree that the dogs should be killed because their brutal training could make them a threat to people and other animals.
The dogs might not be killed right away because they are evidence in the case against Vick and possibly others referred to in a federal indictment issued in July.
Basically these dogs are too far gone to be taken care of.
Here are a couple of links about the Judge in this case. It seems he still holds a lot of sway over what can happen:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_mccann/08/24/vick/index.html
As part of the plea deal, however, federal prosecutors will recommend to U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson a significantly shorter sentence. Keep in mind, however, Judge Hudson, who enjoys a reputation as tough sentencer, can ignore the prosecutors’ recommendation and impose a harsher, or lighter, sentence.
Vick’s admission of guilt, lack of criminal record and contention it was group, rather than individual, responsibility should weigh in his favor. Persons found guilty of animal cruelty, however, can stir the emotions of anyone, including a well-respected and thoughtful judge. Along those lines, while everyone wants to know how long Vick will serve, there are still significant gaps of information (e.g. the precise recommendation by prosecutors; whether Judge Hudson agrees with the recommendation) that prevent a sensible guess.
This yahoo report also talks about the judge, he is a dog owner too.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vick-judge&prov=ap&type=lgns
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) – The judge who will determine how much time Michael Vick spends in prison has shown little mercy over the years for high-profile defendants�?�.
Tough but fair" is the description most often heard from lawyers who appear before Hudson, who owns a bichon frise dog and declined to be interviewed.
“He’s a good trial judge, but on sentencing he tends to be in the middle or upper range of the sentencing guidelines,” said attorney Murray Janus. “A lot of judges start at the low end. Not Judge Hudson.”