So I’m preparing for my first contest, been dieting good for the past few weeks with high carb high protein trace fats. My cycle that I’m going to begin roughly 9 weeks out will consist of 500-600mg sust, 250mg tren enth, 300 mg mast enth weekly, doubling the tren and mast for the last couple weeks, and beginning albuterol and T4 beginning about 4-5 weeks out.
Now something I have read about from ketogenic dieters is the use of insulin to low BG levels following a carb refeed, i.e., following the last meal of the day, taking 1-2 ius once or twice to drop BG to about 65-75mg/dl and therefore going back into ketosis upon awakening the next morning. Now it occurred to me, that despite not running a low carb, I too may be able to accomplish this on the days prior to doing morning fasted or semi fasted cardio 2-3 times per week.
In theory, this sounds like a stroke of genius. I will be able to cardio while in ketosis, thus maximizing fat loss, without losing out on the protective anti-catabolic/anabolic effects of the insulin resulting from my high carb diet. I will never have to deplete my glycogen stores, and furthermore, if the glycogen supercompensatory effects are contingent upon the hormones present while in ketosis rather than existing glycogen store levels themselves, then I could enjoy brimming glycogen stores despite running a calorie deficit.
Now, obviously this is the most dangerous way of using insulin, and I confess that upon attempting this the first time I severely underestimated the amount of BG per IU that would be lowered. I measured 95mg/dl one hour following my last meal of chicken beans and spinach, and pinned 4iu of novolinR. One hour later I started going hypo, sweats shakes and nausea, measured a BG of fifty and had to run around the office stealing peoples candies after the entire tube of dextrose tabs I had was not enough. Clearly 1 iu would have been plenty, lesson learned, but lo! I measured ketones in the morning.
I was wondering if anyone has any input or experience regarding this, I feel kinda clever.
lets be more precise here, why am I subject to this, I see no reason I would be more prone to acidosis than any ketogenic dieter, less so because I wont be in ketosis for long enough to accumulate excessive ketone bodies
[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
lets be more precise here, why am I subject to this, I see no reason I would be more prone to acidosis than any ketogenic dieter, less so because I wont be in ketosis for long enough to accumulate excessive ketone bodies[/quote]
because you’re not a ketogenic dieter, but someone forcing themselves into ketosis with insulin.
you shouldn’t go into ketoacidosis on a low carb diet.
EDIT: i may be wrong about ketoacidosis, in doing some digging… if you’re pH gets goofed up, the i suspect the risk is high. however, i think the real question, is how much do you expect to gain in fat loss for a few hours a week in ketosis?
I see no harm in doing this provided its done safely and surely no greater likelihood of ketoacidosis, and I always have the option of staying keto as long as I wish once there
Re-read the process, do it following one hour after your last meal, and by the time you wait for the insulin to clear, and then go to bed and awaken nearly 12 hours have passed with low blood sugar and your body has to fuel itself somehow.
People who use ketogenic diets do this following carb refeeds, I see no difference here. I still stand by the theory, now whether its much ado about nothing is to be determined.
I think that being able to bring yourself into ketosis is beneficial, does it matter for one cardio session, maybe not, but for the 24-36 that come from doing cardio a mere 2-3 for 12 weeks, I think it should. Also on days which you do not plan to go back and lift later that day you can stay keto.
[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Re-read the process, do it following one hour after your last meal, and by the time you wait for the insulin to clear, and then go to bed and awaken nearly 12 hours have passed with low blood sugar and your body has to fuel itself somehow.
People who use ketogenic diets do this following carb refeeds, I see no difference here. I still stand by the theory, now whether its much ado about nothing is to be determined.
I think that being able to bring yourself into ketosis is beneficial, does it matter for one cardio session, maybe not, but for the 24-36 that come from doing cardio a mere 2-3 for 12 weeks, I think it should. Also on days which you do not plan to go back and lift later that day you can stay keto.[/quote]
you still produce glucagon. and insulin sensitivity spikes every time you come out of ketosis.
but anyway, why don’t you just get some ketostix and try it out???
[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Oh I have, like I said I measured ketones in the morning, it wasnt the highest reading possible but they were there.[/quote]
where at? low/measurable? mid?
generally, a legit keto reading is not in the AM after getting up, but after the second (or more urination) of the day, due to the fact that ketones can build up in some folks overnight.
i’ll be the first to admit that i don’t know all the tweaks that a BB does in a pre-contest diet, but IMO, if you’re interested in a keto diet, you need to lose fat. if you need to lose fat, then i think it would be far easier to adopt the diet and lose the fat, and carb up prior to the show. maybe ad something like metformin to help, too…i dunno.
Ok thanks I’ll keep that in mind next time I measure, truthfully I suspected that would have been the case whether I pinned the insulin or not. It was a mid reading but as I said I miffed it the first time, and had to keep nibbling carbs for the whole duration of the insulin. Before bed I actually measured a BG>100 which was disconcerting, until I learned that while in ketosis your BG is actually about that range; I was definitely hungry as my last meal was at 6 and I went to bed around midnight.
So far as dieting believe me I am. This is my first actually prep attempting sub 8% but there are pretty much two basic camps so far as I understand: high protein and either high carb low fat or high fat low carb. Me being rather close to my target weight (I’m about 8 percent at still twelve weeks out weighing at 170 at 5’7ish, meaning I only have a handful of lbs to lose) I want to prevent catabolism as much as possible and this can only be accomplished with carbs, especially considering I will be dosing fat burners toward the end. Im consuming about 2200-2500 depending how I train that day, which will probably increase when I start my big cycle, just on maintenance test atm.
Also I want to keep my options open if I need to eat a calorie surplus for a week or two in the interim if it looks like I’m dropping too quick, or just take advantage when my big AAS kick in several weeks out. It sucks big that my tren/mast are long ester, but they are much cheaper that way and I really had to shift my budget around to make it possible at all.
EDIT: I think low carb diets are better suited for natty competitors as the fat really helps keep hormone production high, this isnt a concern for us.
[quote]c.m.l. wrote:
Ok thanks I’ll keep that in mind next time I measure, truthfully I suspected that would have been the case whether I pinned the insulin or not. It was a mid reading but as I said I miffed it the first time, and had to keep nibbling carbs for the whole duration of the insulin. Before bed I actually measured a BG>100 which was disconcerting, until I learned that while in ketosis your BG is actually about that range; I was definitely hungry as my last meal was at 6 and I went to bed around midnight.
So far as dieting believe me I am. This is my first actually prep attempting sub 8% but there are pretty much two basic camps so far as I understand: high protein and either high carb low fat or high fat low carb. Me being rather close to my target weight (I’m about 8 percent at still twelve weeks out weighing at 170 at 5’7ish, meaning I only have a handful of lbs to lose) I want to prevent catabolism as much as possible and this can only be accomplished with carbs, especially considering I will be dosing fat burners toward the end. Im consuming about 2200-2500 depending how I train that day, which will probably increase when I start my big cycle, just on maintenance test atm.
Also I want to keep my options open if I need to eat a calorie surplus for a week or two in the interim if it looks like I’m dropping too quick, or just take advantage when my big AAS kick in several weeks out. It sucks big that my tren/mast are long ester, but they are much cheaper that way and I really had to shift my budget around to make it possible at all.
EDIT: I think low carb diets are better suited for natty competitors as the fat really helps keep hormone production high, this isnt a concern for us.[/quote]
[quote]anime wrote:
You’re going to get brain damage. You might as well put a plastic bag over your head. Hypoglycemia is essentially hypoxiya[/quote]
Anyone who has toyed with insulin knows what it feels like to get the beginnings of hypoglycemia, its a far cry from actually going deep and slipping into a coma resulting in brain damage.
As an update, last night I did a better job, measured BG of 88 mg/dl 1 hour following my last meal of spinach and chicken, pinned 1/2 iu. Measured 73 mg/dl BG before bed and measured a higher ketone count, somewhere close to 40mg/dl upon my 2nd urination after waking. Could have probably gotten away with 1iu but assuming it will lower BG by approx 50 depending on what you are doing, and considering I felt hypo at 50 mg/dl I supposed 1/2 would be fine. Its difficult to measure such small amounts.